Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[BayouBelle_LA]

There are some dog breeds that are hypoallergenic. Maybe their dog was.

 

[ACE422]

Thank you - a few of us have been saying the same thing, but the majority don't agree.
Welcome to WS @ACE422

Thank you Tippy Lynn. Looks like I need to spell check before I press send next time

 

[NuttMegg]

CW states he goes down stairs, and then sees SW, on monitors, in 'killing' action.
If as he states, SW is in such a state, what about sound!
What is so important downstairs, to not see monitors or hear any sounds, for several minutes: as takes time to 'strangle'?

He had to pass right by, on the stairs coming back up, where he says one child is already dead and she, according to him, is strangling the other one. Apparently he had to go all the way across the house to notice it on the monitor.

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes, that's true. But I missed the first time. Was anything ever linked to the crime? Or even implied that it played a role?

I was gone for a good portion of the day and have been reading for 4 hours now, trying to get caught up. I decided to jot down anything I read in this regard since requests have gone unanswered. I know @katydid23 has asked several times, as have others, and I apologize if somehow I missed a response. Here is what I have so far:

• She was bossy
• She and the girls had a lot of illnesses and saw doctors often
• A nebulizer used by the girls may not have been for asthma
• She posted lovey-dovey messages until CW felt the need to delete his FB
• She and the girls received chiropractic treatments
• CeCe was allergic to dogs, cats and mold

 

[NuttMegg]

There are some dog breeds that are hypoallergenic. Maybe their dog was.

Yes remember that was why the Obamas got the breed they did, because Sasha, IIRC was allergic to other dogs.

 

[ACE422]

NO.. he ALWAYS did housework.

Trinket78, thanks for hanging in there. We appreciate your input.

 

[cottonweaver]

You could really make a case either way. If you believe this was premeditated, there are things that support this view. The same goes with a spur of the moment rage killing. There’s just not a lot to work with by way of evidence.

I agree MG. Could go both ways. I started with totally pre-med but I can see that I was rushing to a premature conclusion based on insufficient evidence.

BTW you wrote the review on the recent book here afaik. I just saw this, another piece that is interesting
What impact did THRIVE have on Shan’ann’s marriage?

as there's so little new in the case at the moment and Ashley B's coverage doesn't seem to be forthcoming...

here's a snippet of it:

You want to reach into Facebook and grab these people, and shake them. And tell them three/four people – human beings – are XXXXXXX dead!

So the question is, did Thrive have an impact on Shan’ann’s marriage? It appears to have an impact on every aspect of those it infects – not just marriages, but livelihoods and lives.

 

[Trinket78]

I would imagine she might not want him to as she seemed to be so particular about the way she kept her house. The only reason I say that is because I have friends who are like that (one says she has OCD) even though I think she is joking, but she doesn't allow anyone else to do the housework because she says they won't do it right!

She taught him well.

 

[PommyMommy]

I posted giana1 awesome summary a few pages back with a sincere request to have EVIDENCE laid out in the same organized manner that would point toward CW's story being anywhere near plausible.

I sincerely would like to see this rather than pages and pages of conjecture and judgement of a seemingly loving person and mother's choice of healthcare for her children. JMO

Good luck.

 

[MsBetsy]

CAN trigger asthma attacks. This is not always a given for those with asthma, which can be triggered by many and sometimes specific things. I was just wondering if it's specifically noted anywhere that this was a specific trigger for her.

If I recall correctly there are videos, I'm thinking of the whipped cream one, with the dog engaging and no asthma. Animals do not always trigger it. I don't recall seeing anywhere where SW, or CW for that matter, said that this was a specific trigger for her. JMO in case I need to say so

I have had asthma all my life and have never had any reaction to dogs or cats.

 

[NuttMegg]

I was gone for a good portion of the day and have been reading for 4 hours now, trying to get caught up. I decided to jot down anything I read in this regard since requests have gone unanswered. I know @katydid23 has asked several times, as have others, and I apologize if somehow I missed a response. Here is what I have so far:

• She was bossy
• She and the girls had a lot of illnesses and saw doctors often
• A nebulizer used by the girls may not have been for asthma
• She posted lovey-dovey messages until CW felt the need to delete his FB
• She and the girls received chiropractic treatments
• CeCe was allergic to dogs

When she posted nice things about him none of that was true, she was trying to keep him as a husband and flattering him. But, when she said he did a lot of house work, that part WAS true and not just flattering him.

 

[Gardener1850]

delete

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Per the mods we are free to judge for ourselves, as long as we are respectful.

That's my understanding as well.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Was he somewhat like a house husband? She was an excellent housekeeper. Did he do his honey do list on a regular basis?

Lol at 'honey do list'. I had to google that. Never heard of it before

 

[MsBetsy]

She taught him well.

Yes, that's the impression I had. While you are here, can I ask about how long CW was considering seperation? And when he actually asked her and what her reaction may have been? Do you think it was a mutual thing? Thanks in advance.

 

[Johnny1181]

I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

Evidence of triple murder:

1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
A Global History of Child Death

12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf

The people claiming we should not analyze SW's behavior ( from videos and VI contributions available ) are analyzing CW's behavior from videos and VI contributions ‍. While it's not a "pscyhcological assessment," the information available does give insight into the dynamics of their relationship, which is very important.

I'm analyzing based on evidence like this.....

 

[katydid23]

The other thing that strikes me odd is her conditions were deabilatating when she was depressed after her divorce according to her fb video . She has always had to lean towards several doctors for diagnosis bc everyone misdiagnoses her and her children . She seemed quite healthy the past few years on her media . That raises a flag to me as well

Do you know many people with autoimmune disorders? If so, don't say to them that 'they seem quite healthy.'

That can be quite an insult, as it is doubting their ability to know they are , in fact, ill. When someone has a debilitating illness, that is internally based, others may not see the ravages. But that does not mean it is not there and active in their system.

Just because someone 'seems' to be healthy, when you look at their social media, that does not mean they do not have difficult health issues to deal with. Would you really expect a lupus victim to go on social media and describe their painful, swollen joints, their total exhaustion and their sudden rashes?

 

[flourish]

Perhaps folks aren't getting the posts they want in response to requests because the requests seem to be framed a particular way asking for those who think CW is innocent of killing the girls to explain why.

However, unless I've missed it, nobody has actually stated they do think he's innocent, just that there is a reasonable amount of doubt.

There is a difference.

So perhaps requests are being made to... nobody... Hence nobody responding? Just a thought.

I have reasonable doubt, but it's because I haven't seen enough evidence to change that yet. So it's not that I have some kind of exculpatory evidence in mind, just that I don't think the evidence thus far proves he killed the girls.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

When she posted nice things about him none of that was true, she was trying to keep him as a husband and flattering him. But, when she said he did a lot of house work, that part WAS true.

Do you think she was trying to flatter him to keep him as a housekeeper?

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

I live in a new build in Colorado, and I have to say I only hear dog barking (if they are outside), and the horn of the nightly freight train (about a mile away, and it is not loud). As far as anyone having open windows at night, my development is still under construction, and open windows at night can be problematic in the summer. Dust/sand blowing in due to wind, and unexpected storms during the night.(We've had several since we've been here). I have yet to hear anything from the inside of another's home in the 7 months we've lived here. So, I think it's very possible that an argument would not be heard by neighbors in the wee hours of the morning. moo

Excellent point! I have a friend who moved to CO recently and the horrific winds she reports, as well as the smoke from further west this summer... she had her home closed up with AC on to keep it all out.