Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #25

[Inthedetails]

Yeah. That's the thing. I fully understand people saying they need more to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That's fair.

But to say that, in the face of the absolutely avalanche of actual facts we know of in this case that constitute circumstantial evidence that many of us feel is powerful evidence of his guilt, and then to turn around and state the opinion that SW probably murdered her children, was making them sick, that his story is believable, that she was mentally ill- to state an opinion as to that based on virtually no facts at all, like mental health diagnoses, evidence she had a blog about her kids' illnesses and was going on in major detail, over and over, constantly, daily, about her kids illnesses and almost dying, etc., like we see in MSBP cases, or evidence her DNA was under the kids' nails or the size of her hands were around their necks, or evidence of emails, texts, etc., from her stating she was losing it or wanting to seek revenge or anything, that's what I feel is super unreasonable.

I need many more facts to convince me of CW's guilt, than the mountain of evidence we already have but I need nothing but gossip to convince me Shanann killed her kids?

That confuses me.

Please consider that some of the issues some of us are interested in regarding SW are *NOT* because we are looking for ways to show her guilt, but to uncover the issues within the marriage that may have led to CW killing his family.

jmo

 

[MerryB]

I think the point is only that nebulizers can be rx'd for short-term illnesses like pneumonia, RSV, etc. And therefore just b/c one has a nebulizer does not mean they have a chronic condition such as asthma.

(I have 2 nebulizers for my kids - one left over from a case of RSV and one b/c of a child with asthma)

Thank you @MJPeony

 

[MyBelle]

For example. My child had RSV. Prescribed a neb. That’s a respiratory illness. Never had it again.

My grandson has one for allergies. ITA having a nebulizer isn't "proof" a child has asthma. Glad to see you here!

 

[Marli61]

Pumpers keep track of their time because they depend on that overtime. They usually drive alone unless training someone. They have a company pickup, typically unmarked because they drive like maniacs (not really, just unmarked because otherwise you get a lot of calls like "I saw an ABC company pickup and it tore up my road") and everywhere they go is tracked. You will often see a weird black antenna, it looks like a black metal/plastic cattail, on the trucks sticking up. At where I worked, they would come into the field office because in the oilfield, the free breakfasts are legendary. So they eat like crazy, then go out. They have a lot of freedom and you have to treat them like gold because their jobs are tough and lonely.

Also... and I have not mentioned it before, but now that you are here to discuss it with.. lol.. where my husband works the field mechanics not only have gps on their vehicles, but there is a capability for the company to "see" when the vehicle backs up & the way I understand it they are contacted immediately as to why the vehicle backed up. (sorry, if this sounds jumbled) So I'm wondering if there was such a thing on CW's pkp that alerted the company very early on that his pkp had in fact "backed up"? (to the garage)

*edited for clarity

 

[Jennifer17]

I think it's rather hypocritical for people to berate others for speculating about possible issues SW may have had, then continuously refer to him as a "narc," and post photos to "prove" he didn't have a psychotic break (a photo isn't enough info to rule out a diagnosis any more than it is to rule one in). There is plenty of discussion regarding whether CW is a sociopath or a psychopath, and nobody has his psych eval handy, either.

If it's not okay to even discuss possible issues SW may have had, then it's not okay to discuss what possible issues CW had. Yes, he's the one accused, but that doesn't mean we suddenly have enough information to diagnosis him! And, he's accusing her, so we have every right to consider what kinds of issues would likely exist if his story is true.

It is reasonable, considering his defense, to explore his version, and look into the dynamics and interactions within the family is part of that.

We do lots of speculating at WS. That's part of what we do!

Also, people keep saying, "but he was charged with ____." Okay, so since when do charges = conviction? Never. We don't convict people without a trial. So the fact that the DA had enough evidence to feel comfortable charging him with those charges does not on its own mean he's automatically guilty!

NOBODY HERE HAS EVER EXCUSED HIS ACTIONS. Ever. Trying to see what his possible motive was is not excusing him. Recognizing that the dead had flaws while living is not excusing him nor disparaging SW--it's looking at lots of different angles.

My first reaction seeing his interview was, "omg he killed them all!" After hearing his story, though, I thought, "well, perhaps not." At this point, I think it's more likely than not that he killed the girls, but I still have reasonable doubt. I'd like to see the causes of death, times of death, items and clothing which were or were not with the bodies, etc. I simply need more information to make my conclusion. There's nothing wrong or disrespectful or stupid about that!

I don't know what piece of evidence would absolutely change my mind. It's an "I'll know it when I see it" kinda deal. If the girls have Chris size bruises on their necks, well then that's a huge piece of evidence against him, and my opinion would be greatly influenced by that!

But I reserve my right to withhold judgement ABOUT EITHER OF THEM, while I explore and wait for more evidence. It's gotten beyond tiresome being accused of being a CW fangirl, or somehow "against" SW--it's so twisty and unnecessary. For example, a few days ago, I said something about how Nico wasn't in the forefront of Chris's mind while this was going on. That was twisted into "Christ just somehow miraculously forgot his wife was pregnant." That's an example of the ongoing absurd twisting, and it's not really helpful to anyone.

With every bit of respect in the world, no one here has called anyone a CW fan girl. Maybe on other sites they have but you cannot be sick of it here, because it has not happened.

 

[NuttMegg]

Pumpers keep track of their time because they depend on that overtime. They usually drive alone unless training someone. They have a company pickup, typically unmarked because they drive like maniacs (not really, just unmarked because otherwise you get a lot of calls like "I saw an ABC company pickup and it tore up my road") and everywhere they go is tracked. You will often see a weird black antenna, it looks like a black metal/plastic cattail, on the trucks sticking up. At where I worked, they would come into the field office because in the oilfield, the free breakfasts are legendary. So they eat like crazy, then go out. They have a lot of freedom and you have to treat them like gold because their jobs are tough and lonely.

Thanks, again. What would be the normal work starting time?

 

[MsBetsy]

This is so true. I look at FB for entertainment more than anything else. My family has had a lot of laughs from the stuff people put on FB.

I only had it for a short time, but I used to joke about putting on pictures of the dustballs in the corners in my house, the pile of junk in my daughter's room, the both of us in our pajamas with our hair all messy, sitting on the couch with a whole bunch of junk food in front of us and saying something about it being another ordinary day.

 

[violet101]

CW always seemed pretty healthy . SW was fond of doctor shopping IMO according to her video misdiagnosed many years . She joined support group for lupus , said she had fibromyalgia . Her first dates with C.W. were mainly dr appointments according to her SM. As her depression lifted in my opinion the illnesses did too . She seemed to venture towards midwives , chiropractors and support groups . Many of the children’s visits were testing according to her posts . The kids went to preschool then took two hour naps and were asleep by 630. She stated she was told she could never have kids ... she didn’t say why but it seems she got pregnant easily. Depression and many personality disorders can manifest illness . It is serious and real to those suffering . But the only reason it is relevant to me is because the more I see certain personality traits . I see her not taking separation factor calmly. Everyone was shocked about this crime because it didn’t make sense . I am interested in every insider that can fill in the gaps that we don’t know .

This logic doesn’t make sense to me. My 2 year old goes to bed at 6:30pm and sleeps till 7:30am and still takes a 2-3 hour nap. When she is awake she is very active and does not sit down, which is what the Watts girls seemed to be. This is normal for kids this age.

Also, when you know something isn’t right with you and you seek out answers, I wouldn’t call that dr shopping. She was being proactive with her and her kids health. No one cares about you as much as you do and should. Also, a mother is usually the one who is most proactive about their child’s health, which is what we see from Shanann. My husband is an amazing father but 9 times out of 10 I am one taking my kids to the dr and scheduling appts. He just doesn’t think that way, which is what I see with SW and CW. I feel like her actions are being vilified when all she wanted was best for her kids.

 

[Silver~Bell]

Also... and I have not mentioned it before, but now that you are here to discuss it with.. lol.. where my husband works the field mechanics not only have gps on their vehicles, but there is a capability for the company to "see" when the vehicle backs up & the way I understand it they are contacted immediately as to why the vehicle backed up. (sorry, if this sounds jumbled) So I'm wondering if there was such a thing on CW's pkp that alerted the company very early on that his pkp had in fact "backed up"? (to the garage)
*edited for clarity

Wow, they must have a way to transmit the backup camera images back to the field house. Our trucks did not have that, but maybe it's needed for OSHA requirements for a "spotter" if the rear of the truck obstructs the back view. Does your husband drive a truck bigger than a pickup? Our pickup trucks had the cameras and a beep-beep-beep to warn it was backing up. Where my son works the tank trucks have an automatic backing program that runs, the guys don't touch the controls, it backs up for them. But he drives a little hotshot pickup F250 and all it has is the GPS.

 

[BeanieBod]

Sorry, I was talking about the one of his arrest!! I didn't even see another one.

Is there more than one affidavit as implied?

 

[NuttMegg]

Wow, they must have a way to transmit the backup camera images back to the field house. Our trucks did not have that, but maybe it's needed for OSHA requirements for a "spotter" if the rear of the truck obstructs the back view. Does your husband drive a truck bigger than a pickup? Our pickup trucks had the cameras and a beep-beep-beep to warn it was backing up. Where my son works the tank trucks have an automatic backing program that runs, the guys don't touch the controls, it backs up for them. But he drives a little hotshot pickup F250 and all it has is the GPS.

Can they disable the GPS easily (or at all)?
Do the tanks have filters on them at the output location, ie bottom of tank? (Seems obvious yes to me, but we've discussed that).
Subjective, but is the oil industry in your area discussing this case a lot?
Thanks, of course you don't have to answer any of this!!

 

[Madison418]

Also... and I have not mentioned it before, but now that you are here to discuss it with.. lol.. where my husband works the field mechanics not only have gps on their vehicles, but there is a capability for the company to "see" when the vehicle backs up & the way I understand it they are contacted immediately as to why the vehicle backed up. (sorry, if this sounds jumbled) So I'm wondering if there was such a thing on CW's pkp that alerted the company very early on that his pkp had in fact "backed up"? (to the garage)

*edited for clarity

I was thinking that the company fired him because of possibly data they retrieved from his work truck and put 2 and 2 together that his wife and kids were missing on their own. I would think also that LE pinged his company almost immediately after the start of the investigation into their disappearances to verify his whereabouts. MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think it's rather hypocritical for people to berate others for speculating about possible issues SW may have had, then continuously refer to him as a "narc," and post photos to "prove" he didn't have a psychotic break (a photo isn't enough info to rule out a diagnosis any more than it is to rule one in). There is plenty of discussion regarding whether CW is a sociopath or a psychopath, and nobody has his psych eval handy, either.

If it's not okay to even discuss possible issues SW may have had, then it's not okay to discuss what possible issues CW had. Yes, he's the one accused, but that doesn't mean we suddenly have enough information to diagnosis him! And, he's accusing her, so we have every right to consider what kinds of issues would likely exist if his story is true.

It is reasonable, considering his defense, to explore his version, and look into the dynamics and interactions within the family is part of that.

We do lots of speculating at WS. That's part of what we do!

Also, people keep saying, "but he was charged with ____." Okay, so since when do charges = conviction? Never. We don't convict people without a trial. So the fact that the DA had enough evidence to feel comfortable charging him with those charges does not on its own mean he's automatically guilty!

NOBODY HERE HAS EVER EXCUSED HIS ACTIONS. Ever. Trying to see what his possible motive was is not excusing him. Recognizing that the dead had flaws while living is not excusing him nor disparaging SW--it's looking at lots of different angles.

My first reaction seeing his interview was, "omg he killed them all!" After hearing his story, though, I thought, "well, perhaps not." At this point, I think it's more likely than not that he killed the girls, but I still have reasonable doubt. I'd like to see the causes of death, times of death, items and clothing which were or were not with the bodies, etc. I simply need more information to make my conclusion. There's nothing wrong or disrespectful or stupid about that!

I don't know what piece of evidence would absolutely change my mind. It's an "I'll know it when I see it" kinda deal. If the girls have Chris size bruises on their necks, well then that's a huge piece of evidence against him, and my opinion would be greatly influenced by that!

But I reserve my right to withhold judgement ABOUT EITHER OF THEM, while I explore and wait for more evidence. It's gotten beyond tiresome being accused of being a CW fangirl, or somehow "against" SW--it's so twisty and unnecessary. For example, a few days ago, I said something about how Nico wasn't in the forefront of Chris's mind while this was going on. That was twisted into "Chris just somehow miraculously forgot his wife was pregnant." That's an example of the ongoing absurd twisting, and it's not really helpful to anyone.

Excellent post - very well written too! Thank you @flourish

 

[Trinket78]

My grandson has one for allergies. ITA having a nebulizer isn't "proof" a child has asthma. Glad to see you here!

Thank you!

 

[Silver~Bell]

Can they disable the GPS easily (or at all)?
Do the tanks have filters on them at the output location? (Seems obvious yes to me, but we've discussed that).
Subjective, but are is the oil industry in your area discussing this case a lot?
Thanks, of course you don't have to answer any of this!!

No one I know talks about the case, they are too busy eating and getting overtime, ha ha. Sadly, we sometimes get local cases where people are found deceased due to foul play on an oil lease, or when workers are overcome by the H2S at a tank farm, it happens too often.

Our tanks have wire grid filters but not filters for anything fine. They are just storage tanks, not treater tanks, however. Water is the main contaminant.

 

[wattsgoingon]

I'm just so unbelievably sad for Shan'ann. As every hour, day, week passes there is no let up to my sadness and I watched the video someone posted earlier where she talked about her life, the bad times and how Chris lifted her from all of that. She spoke with such hope and happiness - but now (and only now) I can see/feel that she was 'kidding herself'. Whatever hurt happened in her first marriage and during the health challenges was probably nothing compared to what actually went on in that house with CW, but how desperately she wanted everything to be good, perfect even. How desperately she wanted and deserved her 'Happy Ending', her fairytale. And how hideously opposite her fate was to be. I can't get over this. The only thing I wish for is that these angels can rest in peace, together. I don't like the dishonouring of her by the dissection and (mis?)interpretation of her every move on social media.

 

[MerryB]

First it was monthly, now it is daily?

Shanann Watts

 

[Waterdog]

FWIW, I think implying that SW has some sort of Munchausen by Proxy syndrome is just as disparaging if not more than calling a murderer, by their own admission, a monster. But still, that was threads back, and yet, we are still discussing SW and the girl's health issues and whether they were real or not.

I don't think the health issues of SW and their girls matter to their murder. But I do feel it's in one part what attracted CW to SW in the first place. I'd even go so far as to say maybe he was hoping she couldn't have children at all, and then boom. Dude got stuck. His affair(s) reeks of wanting to be unstuck.

 

[Shekkiec]

IMO what makes this hard to discuss is we are looking at the possibility of a victim also being the perp of a crime . In no way am I trying to Victim Shame. CW confessed to killing SW. IMO to look at evidence clearly we must rationalize certain things that deem it possible SW killed the girls as well since he did not confess and at this point they have both been accused .

 

[MerryB]

According to SW’s FB, yes. Link added:
Shanann Watts

Bump to note added link.