Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #29

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I agree woman of dv or abuse in any form shouldn't be blamed or victimized and nobody who commits these acts should have their behavior justified. However, the accusations need to be investigated. We can't just go around criminalizing the accused without the accusations being investigated . Men are abused too, not as often as woman are, but they are and that shouldn't be dismissed or ignored either. jmo
Men are abused. I agree.

And we definitely don't want a society where the accused are criminalized without being proven guilty.

Accusations should be investigated. And CW does have a right to a fair trial. But Shanann should not be put on trial on the basis of SM posts.

And still there's this.... you see your babies being strangled.... call 911. I mean I would. You find your entire family before you strangled and dead lying in front of you? For G sake I would be horrified and screaming my head off calling for any help I could.

Loading them up in the back of your truck, dumping them in oil and throwing dirt over them is not the reaction most would have.

The there's the preening for the media in the shirt...

JMO
 
I think that LE would not have charged him with the murders if they did not have evidence.
The only person accusing her is her murderer who lied and lied to LE and the public.

I never said such a thing. I'm fully aware they have evidence to charge him with the murders. My post was in regards to domestic violence and abuse towards woman and men.
 
Here's the thing: In general, men have a power position over women. There is a looooong history of men having property rights over women's property, and women having none, the power to vote while women did not, the ability to put a woman in a mental hospital without justification, take her children from her, leave her penniless, control her daily life and be supported in that by his family, her family, the churches and the courts, and even to commit domestic violence against her repeatedly, and just be told to take a walk to "cool down", or to have the wife be told not to anger him and to simply be sweet.

Those attitudes continue in many subcultures in the US today.

As a result of this long history and the resultant feminist movement, there was a shift in social attitudes that deemed certain things appropriate while others were not.

Popular culture evidences the shift. Especially t.v. and film.

So we go from the early to mid-fifties I Love Lucy episodes where she says "yes sir" to her husband, he threatens her with physical violence, and actually uses it, spanking her in at least on episode.

Then we see the slight change to the late 60's, the Brady Bunch. The couple represents more of a team now, working on decisions together (with that happening more strongly toward the middle and end of the series).

Go to the 70's and you see single, working women for really the first time (Mary Tyler Moore).

This changes again in the late 90's, early 00's. As with many things, the shift, in order to definitively and decisively divorce itself from a history of a male-dominated patriarchy in which wife beating was not great but not criminalized, etc., went the other way a bit.

So you get programs like 7th heaven, where the wife is constantly scolding and lecturing her husband, and King of Queens, in which Leah Remini's character is described as: "Doug's sardonic wife. She has a quick-temper and is occasionally physically abusive to Doug. She has been characterized as scary by Holly and Doug, particularly when she is angry. During a flashback, Carrie concludes that she is happier (she describes herself as never being truly happy) when others are miserable. She never finished college and is employed as a hard-working legal secretary. Her constant attempts to make her relationship with Doug more romantic and meaningful cause Doug frustration, as he prefers a simple life with as few restrictions as possible. The more quick-witted and adventurous of the couple, Carrie often pushes Doug to make more of himself and improve his morals, but she can be just as immoral as he is. Although Carrie scolds Doug for his selfish behavior, she has proven to be selfish as well at times, with little patience for others' problems or tolerance for their quirks."
The King of Queens - Wikipedia

This is all part of attempts to stabilize roles and sort of fix certain historic and social imbalances of power between the sexes.

(My BA is in American Studies BTW, so I happen to know a bit about American social history, etc.).

I represent a lot of men for some reason. Dads love me. So I am well aware that men are also victims of domestic violence and can be manipulated and victimized by women. I was particularly disgusted by the idea, during the jodi arias trial, that Travis was not a victim of domestic violence.

But it remains true that women continue to suffer more of DV than men, and that men cause more damage, statistically, when they commit it, than women. Women continue to represent 94% of all the intimate partner homicides in the nation.

So there is a more visceral, instinctive reaction when people hear a man badgering a woman, teasing her, or publicly criticizing her, than when a woman does so. It tends, socially, to represent something more profound - an imbalance of power that continues to exist, despite the attempts society has made to repair that imbalance.

In the past, like the Victorian era, a woman who disagreed with her husband in public, just an opinion about literature or politics, was seen as way out of line, unfeminine and shrewish. Today, it is frankly socially acceptable for the most part for women to complain publicly about hapless husbands, husbands who won't pick up after themselves, don't know how to shop, allow the kids to eat forbidden things and make a mess and do "dangerous" things, who fart, and don't groom enough, etc. It's part of popular culture.

So no, it is not the same. The whole history of the imbalance of power between men and women make that so. (Even though some in society continue to cling to notions of femininity from the past - A woman must always be sweet and nurturing and protective and babying of her kids, for example, and must never criticize or tease her husband, etc).

Finally, man or woman - I will never and have never accepted the defense that a parent was controlled and abused by another parent and thus was unable to protect their children from harm, unless they are actually chained or a firearm is used. Casting CW as "subservient" and "passive" is a way of excusing his potential perceived inadequacies as a parent - his inaction or participation in events on video that many here apparently feel evidence child neglect or abuse - and absolve him from his responsibility as a parent, while continuing to enable SW to be eviscerated as an abusive, neglectful and cruel parent, for the events HE also participated in, IMO.
Incredible response. Thank you.
 
Men are abused. I agree.

And we definitely don't want a society where the accused are criminalized without being proven guilty.

Accusations should be investigated. And CW does have a right to a fair trial. But Shanann should not be put on trial on the basis of SM posts.

And still there's this.... you see your babies being strangled.... call 911. I mean I would. You find your entire family before you strangled and dead lying in front of you? For G sake I would be horrified and screaming my head off calling for any help I could.

Loading them up in the back of your truck, dumping them in oil and throwing dirt over them is not the reaction most would have.

The there's the preening for the media in the shirt...

JMO
Exactly! In this case I don’t know what is worse:
CW lying the way he did.

Or people believing his lies.

I’ll be willing to bet that the jury won’t fall for it.
 
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If CW hadn't accused SW of killing the kids then I guess we wouldn't be looking into and exploring if this is at all possible. So while not victim blaming it's about looking at there life together as a couple and as parents.

While you may find it difficult to hear we are allowed to discuss the possibility.

I'm not sure what you mean about women not being believed? Do you mean in general or this case?.
I mean people on this thread not believing the evidence left and the facts shown through the affadavit. Which was initiated by a woman who knew something was wrong. And those who perhaps may be ignoring what LE consider evidence of a woman coming home from a trip she took to support her family and heading up to bed. JMO
Edited to add... and yes in general. IMO
 
If CW hadn't accused SW of killing the kids then I guess we wouldn't be looking into and exploring if this is at all possible. So while not victim blaming it's about looking at their life together as a couple and as parents.

While you may find it difficult to hear we are allowed to discuss the possibility.
is
I'm not sure what you mean about women not being believed? Do you mean in general or this case?.

Edited for grammar!
But in all those vids and the critiscm of her, there is none for him although he is participating in them.
Why not criticise him for not comforting them or squirting or pie facing them?
 
Based on what I observed in all the videos I watched of CW on facebook, he did appear as the VI suggests "to just go with the flow" even when things appeared stressful between him and SW and even when the girls were stressed as well.
He did appear that way. But at the end of the day I don’t think that means a hill of beans.
 
IMO, what seems to be CW's lack of genuine and deep relationships with close friends would have been another factor in CW being confident that he could truly start over with a fresh new life. He wouldn't have any ties left. Other than his wife and children, what other ties would he have?

Even more interesting, is in his 9 News interview (at :10), where CW says, "I have exhausted, like, every friend that I know of, and every friend that I have has called friends that [SW] has that maybe I didn't know about."

So if we really break that sentence down, essentially he is saying that every friend he has also apparently has a friend of SW that he doesn't know about. As if all his friends are really SW's friends.

I would have expected him to gradually fade away from contact with any of SW's friends had he actually gotten away with her murder. Those were SW's friends. Any interest he had in them was likely another example of just going with the flow.

JMO.

a rather quick way to notify all the friends is to make a post on her Facebook page, and open up his Facebook page and notify his friends through that. He didn't even do that iirc.
 
I guess I don't see anger as a negative emotion. I see it as a normal response to some life situations. Maybe that's just me though?

I get angry about many cases I see here. I get angry when I read about some of our suspects---having pages and pages of prior arrests, charges, and they are running free, able to assault or kill more victims.

I get angry when my neighbor lets her dogs come and do their business on my front lawn. She has a lawn, let them go there instead! I was so angry last week--I wanted to toss a handful over the fence on their patio---but I didn't...lol

Being angry is a normal emotion, in my opinion. JMO MOO
Being angry is different than losing it on someone or DV.
 
If CW hadn't accused SW of killing the kids then I guess we wouldn't be looking into and exploring if this is at all possible. So while not victim blaming it's about looking at their life together as a couple and as parents.

While you may find it difficult to hear we are allowed to discuss the possibility.

I'm not sure what you mean about women not being believed? Do you mean in general or this case?.

Edited for grammar!

This is exactly the reason why the discussions are coming up. Exploring possibilities, discussing and looking at cases is what WS is all about - that's what we do here.
jmo
 
I mean people on this thread not believing the evidence left and the facts shown through the affadavit. Which was initiated by a woman who knew something was wrong. And those who perhaps may be ignoring what LE consider evidence of a woman coming home from a trip she took to support her family and heading up to bed. JMO
I can't speak for anyone else but it's not about disbelieving the evidence, it's about how one interprets it. Some see smiling, preening, and a whole other manner of emotions in the interviews with CW, while others see anxiety, remorse and fear.

As with the SM videos some see controlling behaviour, others just playful ribbing. It doesn't mean we are wrong for seeing things a certain way. It's life, we are all unique and have our own thoughts and feelings and in this case we are allowed to express them.
 
On the Santa video from yesterday, did anyone else notice that when SW went into the garage to get CW's cell phone, that an alarm went off and alerted "interior garage door open" at 1:50 mark
Did they have a local security monitoring provider who could provide data for LE?
www.facebook.com/ShanannWatts/videos/vb.507111934/10155098443076935/?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab

I mentioned that back many threads ago as I noticed that too. It reminded me of the case in Bonita Springs where they call the alarm company to see how long the door was open, when the door code was changed, Etc. I was thinking if it shows how long the door was open that morning, was he really just loading tools from his garage to his truck, or was he going in and out of that door and left that door open for a lot of minutes?
 
a rather quick way to notify all the friends is to make a post on her Facebook page, and open up his Facebook page and notify his friends through that. He didn't even do that iirc.
AFAIK CW had deleted his FB page prior to the events that took place. FB does allow one to reactivate your profile for a while after but I'm not sure if he was within that time period to reactivate his FB to notify his followers that SW was missing. Not sure if CW had the password to access SW's FB? Some spouses don't share passwords.
 
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