Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #30

[dixiegirl1035]

If I may speak for Shekkie, I don't believe he/she is saying that circumstantial evidence isn't enough. Just that in the case of a juror, they will have a lot more evidence at their disposal in determining a verdict, than we have right now.

Perhaps I misunderstood "I am anxious to hear more physical evidence and testimony . I believe circumstantial evidence would not sway me personally to vote guilty ."
and QUOTE="Shekkiec, post: 14419862, member: 212978"]Ok thanks ! I guess the moniter so far as evidence wouldn’t make me vote guilty or the interview . I need direct evidence so thank you for that link so i don’t misspeak[/QUOTE]

 

[Best of What's Around]

I'm sure it will, but until that time I can't base my verdict on circumstantial evidence alone. I need more information, which in time will no doubt be forthcoming. MOO

Might want to see Attorney G's great post on circumstantial evidence...because it will all be circumstantial evidence that is forthcoming unless there is a witness other than Dieter (that poor sweet doggie) we know nothing of quite yet.

 

[MyBelle]

People get provoked all of the time. Someone puts leaves on their lawn. Someone is not driving fast enough. Someone disses your sport’s team. On and on about people being provoked, You never know what will get someone all riled up.

Yes, people do get provoked and murder results. Colorado has a statute that covers it.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-3-103 | FindLaw

murder in the second degree is a class 3 felony where the act causing the death was performed upon a sudden heat of passion, caused by a serious and highly provoking act of the intended victim, affecting the defendant sufficiently to excite an irresistible passion in a reasonable person;  but, if between the provocation and the killing there is an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, the killing is a class 2 felony.

 

[AbbyG]

I’m just saying that I personally do not feel he at all fits the annihilator profile type .

What doesn't fit? Objectively, he does seem to fit: financial issues, affair, wife pregnant, outwardly well-adjusted and concerned with social norms, shifting balance of power in relationship (financial), change in appearance (weight loss), month of August, 30s, white --- MOO but based on readings about family annihilators. He reminds me SO MUCH of Chris Vaughn, family annhilator in Chicago.

 

[borndem]

Babybutterfly, could I ask you something about having Lupus? I thought that besides stress, the other big trigger for a flareup was being out in the sun (UV exposure). In her videos of Thrive trips, SW was in her bathing suit by a pool or beach. I thought that was pretty much forbidden if you have Lupus.

I have one friend who has Lupus, and the sun does exacerbate her condition. She always wears long-sleeved shirts whenever she goes outside -- even in the summer, every day, and she wears a hat to keep sun out of her face. Another friend has Lupus, but the sun does not interfere with her Lupus.
I guess it varies with each individual.

 

[Deleted member 230544]

esayer said: ↑
This makes sense. VI said she had access to all of his accounts FWIW


Trinket78, Sep 10, 2018
There were not multiple affairs. If you knew them it’s easy to understand. She had complete access to his phone. He was always on a schedule.



Bluff
@esayer and @gitana1 ~ here is the VI Trinket78 post referencing that SW had access to all of CW accounts.
Thank you @Tippy Lynn for forwarding me this link.

 

[MsBetsy]

Okay, then you do believe in circumstantial evidence. What if we do not have a weapon because they were hands and what if fingerprints can't be recovered because CW put them in tanks of oil? Is it fair for him to benefit from tampering with evidence? Why would a loving father put his baby girls in dark tanks of crude oil?

Also, I don't see why the baby monitor wouldn't be useful to the prosecution. If they can prove you cannot see that a person is blue, which I'm sure they can, they can show that he is lying. And that's just one part of the story that is not believable.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, people do get provoked and murder results. Colorado has a statute that covers it.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-3-103 | FindLaw

murder in the second degree is a class 3 felony where the act causing the death was performed upon a sudden heat of passion, caused by a serious and highly provoking act of the intended victim, affecting the defendant sufficiently to excite an irresistible passion in a reasonable person;  but, if between the provocation and the killing there is an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, the killing is a class 2 felony.

He may have killed his wife “in the heat of passion,” but that wouldn’t apply to the kids.

 

[Allabouttrial]

Might want to see Attorney G's great post on circumstantial evidence...because it will all be circumstantial evidence that is forthcoming unless there is a witness other than Dieter (that poor sweet doggie) we know nothing of quite yet.

Yes I have already read it at the beginning of every thread, but thank you. Yes it will be circumstantial but there will be more to go on, especially in regards to DNA testimony.

 

[AbbyG]

Best I can determine, from information from Univ. of Miami, the university does not offer a Chem.E. degree.
REGARDING that Chemical engineering degree that keeps popping up -- it has been determined that that degree was earned by a different Chris Watts, NOT this one, who is also not the singer. Unfortunately common name causing some confusion. He does not have a Chem. Engineering degree from anywhere.

 

[Johnny1181]

Yes, people do get provoked and murder results. Colorado has a statute that covers it.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-3-103 | FindLaw

murder in the second degree is a class 3 felony where the act causing the death was performed upon a sudden heat of passion, caused by a serious and highly provoking act of the intended victim, affecting the defendant sufficiently to excite an irresistible passion in a reasonable person;  but, if between the provocation and the killing there is an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, the killing is a class 2 felony.

CW has been charged with 1st degree murder, 5 counts I believe. Which shows me that the prosecutors, who have much more evidence than we do, including Shanann's SM posts, do not believe he is guilty of a sudden heat of passion or a class 2 felony. The evidence they have and that we do not has brought about 1st degree murder charges. Among other charges of course. JMO

Edited to add, charges related to burying his unborn son and wife in a shallow grave and dumping his babies in separate oil tanks.

 

[compass]

The way I understand it all evidence is circumstantial evidence except eye witness accounts. I think a string of circumstantial evidence is much more reliable than eye witness accounts. That is why those quick stop stores have height marks on the door facing so clerks can be more accurate when describing a robber fleeing. Have a group of people in a room when someone unexpectably runs through, there will be many different descriptions. As a juror I would most definitely consider circumstantial evidence when deciding guilt or innocence.

 

[cailleach]

An affair and an unwanted pregnancy. That's been present over and over again in cases where men kill their wives seemingly out of the blue and don't have a history of mental illness or domestic violence.

The thing is this was the ultimate act of DV. I've been an advocate for DV victims/survivors. Choking/strangulation is a preferred method of DV perpetrators. The thing the common person isn't aware of is that it only leaves bruising in a little over half of the cases so we don't know if he had choked her other times. People need to remember that even in today's world women are ashamed and there's lots of stigma associated with it so it's on par with sexual assault being underreported. If the former A/P that dumped him is telling the truth, he was experienced and knowledgeable about the method. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

Or maybe it did hurt the CA case -- to find those jurors they had to go to a certain type of person in a more limited pool ("under a rock," as you put it); would a more savvy type have been more likely to convict?
Regarding the Facebook deletion - wasn't it only a "verified insider" asserting that CW deleted his account because he had repeatedly asked for a separation? This kind of thing stated as fact was what caused me to need to take a break from the speculation that was heading toward victim bashing, and I think one of the VI had too much of an agenda to "defend" CW at the expense of his victim, IMO. I think deleting his account a week prior would have more to do with not wanting certain people to see his life -- his wife, his kids. all JMO, MOO ! I know this post may not be okay, seems we are not allowed to question VI's POV at all, so I will go away again and just lurk!

I also think he would have known very well that deleting his account would not have any effect on her in regard to a separation. He was just about to go spend the week with her, or he was already with her at that time. What good would that have done?

 

[Best of What's Around]

Yes, people do get provoked and murder results. Colorado has a statute that covers it.

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18. Criminal Code § 18-3-103 | FindLaw

murder in the second degree is a class 3 felony where the act causing the death was performed upon a sudden heat of passion, caused by a serious and highly provoking act of the intended victim, affecting the defendant sufficiently to excite an irresistible passion in a reasonable person;  but, if between the provocation and the killing there is an interval sufficient for the voice of reason and humanity to be heard, the killing is a class 2 felony.

"an irresistible passion in a reasonable person"...and IMO no reasonable person who sees his child being strangled takes 5 minutes to strangle their perpetrator instead of calling 911 and then within the hour has three bodies packed up in his truck to dump in tanks of crude oil, followed a few hours later by texts/calls to his dead wife to hide that he knows a darn thing. Did I mention then lying to the police, and asking a worried public to search frantically for said missing family? Then go to a friend's house, chow down on pizza and not seem terribly concerned, according to the Thayers. A reasonable person would appear devestated with grief at such a Greek tragedy unfolding before his eyes...wouldn't he? At some point soon afterward? Maybe not...

 

[pocketaccent]

It did really surprise me that they bought a 5 bedroom, 3 car garage, new home, after coming out of their bankruptcy. And I can tell, by many of the pix and videos, that they both have a lot of trendy,new brand name items and clothing.

I had a lot of hand me down things for my kids because I had a lot of nieces and nephews, luckily for us. So my kids had great stuff, but mostly gently used.

But when I look at their pix, like the one at the airport, they had lots of new matching luggage, which is not cheap. And the latest fashions.

We always had various mismatched pieces because we were paycheck to paycheck when the kids were little. LOL

I am very curious about what their debt load was at the time of the murders.

2010 -SW & CW met
Nov 2012 -CW and SW married
May 2013 -CW purchased CO home for $399,954
Dec 2013 -Bella was born
June 2015 -Filed bankruptcy
July 2015 -CeCe was born
-----------------------------------------------------
In June, 2015, the couple filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection, saying their year-to-date income in 2015 was $40,491. The filing listed debts more than $400,000 including a mortgage of $378,000. Other debts totaling more than $70,000 included miscellaneous credit card charges in 2015 totaling more than $44,569, and 2015 purchases from Nordstrom for a credit card balance of $3,038, and Macy's for a credit card balance of $1,301. The couple also declared student loan debts of $11,000 and had medical bills for around $2,500.
Frederick Couple Faced Economic Pressure, Had Filed Bankruptcy

 

[The Saint]

He may have killed his wife “in the heat of passion,” but that wouldn’t apply to the kids.

It might if the kids got killed first due to some triggering event --- bed wetting, etc.

 

[MsBetsy]

The thing is this was the ultimate act of DV. I've been an advocate for DV victims/survivors. Choking/strangulation is a preferred method of DV perpetrators. The thing the common person isn't aware of is that it only leaves bruising in a little over half of the cases so we don't know if he had choked her other times. People need to remember that even today's world women are ashamed and there's lots of stigma associated with it so it's on par with sexual assault being underreported. If the former A/P that dumped him is telling the truth, he was experienced and knowledgeable about the method. JMO

It's the most common method because it is the ultimate act of power and control, I believe.

 

[MyBelle]

He may have killed his wife “in the heat of passion,” but that wouldn’t apply to the kids.

I'm confident there will be compelling evidence as to who killed the kids. We don't have cause of death yet.

 

[MassGuy]

It might if the kids got killed first due to some triggering event --- bed wetting, etc.

I think the kids were secondary in terms of targeting (although they may have been killed first). I think this was mostly about Shannan.