Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

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MsBetsy said:
It definately would have made it harder for the AP to find out that he had spent a week with his family. Who knows what he may have told her? He was probably lying to her the whole time and then was desperately trying to keep the lie going. Jmo
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Well he could have told her it was a visit to see his children that his wife had taken when she left, but there would have been posts from SW about going back to CO.
 
MsBetsy said:
It definately would have made it harder for the AP to find out that he had spent a week with his family. Who knows what he may have told her? He was probably lying to her the whole time and then was desperately trying to keep the lie going. Jmo
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Yes. It would make sense that he told the AP he was already separated from his wife. After all he could have wined and dined her for 5 weeks, had her over for the night, etc. She might very well be as shocked as everyone else.
 
Do we know for a fact that the girls were found in "separate" tanks? I am wondering if he went to the tanks, earlier, and drained one into the other (as can be done) then loosened the bolts on the other man hole side (called premeditation). When he brought their bodies there, he put the little ones into one tank, rebolted the man opening and reversed the drain back filling the one that held their bodies. Then, he quickly buried Shanann in a shallow grave.

I wonder how little time it would have taken to bury those two little bodies rather than dumping them into a tank of oil. That has got to be the cruelest, heartless act a father could commit on their own babies bodies. It would have taken time to carry them, individually, up to those openings on top (if he did it that way). Why not use that time to bury them. It's obvious, he's trying to reveal that horrific part of "who he really is" from everyone, IMHO.
 
Jennifer17 said:
[

They were found 'immersed in oil' and numerous news sites have said that the tanks contained crude oil.
When you do think that they were filled? The bodies were recovered not even two days later and LE had the drone out not long after they disappeared.
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Yes, it was stated in several news articles that the tanks were almost full. I think that was the reason for the assumption that he put the bodies in different tanks. The distribution of oil causing problems.
 
MsBetsy said:
I'm still thinking he may have already told the girlfriend that SW had already left, and they were already separated. That may be why he deleted the FB when he did. Also might explain why he felt he had to do it that weekend. Jmo
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I didn't even think of this scenario. This makes perfect sense and sounds very much like it could be what was going through his mind. Completely.
 
dgfred said:
Sorry to put it this way but-
'If' you are him... where besides the oil tanks (at your workplace) would you put the bodies?

He had no choice IMO, so I don't think he planned (counted) on anything.
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What do you mean "he had no choice"?
Was there another person we don't know about holding a gun to his head?
What irresistible force made him take the body of one of his little girls out of the truck, climb a 25 foot oil tank and force the child's body into an 8 inch opening?
Then that same person with a gun or irresistible force gave him "no choice" but to climb down, get the other girl, climb up the second tank and force his other daughter's body into the 8 inch hatch?
He had lots of choices.
He could have chosen to put them all together or better yet, not to hide them at all.
He could have chosen to stop part way through the 4o minute drive with the bodies in the truck and realized what he was doing was wrong and taken them to a hospital or police station.
He could have left them all in the house and chosen to drive himself to Mexico, fleeing like the coward he is.
Or, last of all, and I really wish he has chosen this-- he could have chosen NOT to murder his family. He had about 4 minutes during which he strangled the first victim where he could have realized what he was doing and stopped. He could have still saved that life. He could have walked away and gotten a divorce. At no point in time did he have "no choice".
He made ALL the choices.
MOO.
(Sorry for the rant.)
 
dgfred said:
I don't agree... I think the openings were big enough for the girls but not for SW. That is why she was hastily buried.
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I think so too...he forcefully made them go through the small openings (unimaginable to me). I asked earlier and I don't think anyone answered but am I thinking incorrectly that the girls were placed into separate tanks?
 
Tippy Lynn said:
I see you are new here and might not know the rules yet. Just so you know unless you have a link it's considered rumor and you are not allowed to discuss it here. It's helps us keep the facts straight.
jmo
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JudgeJudi said:
Because he'd had 5 weeks of freedom and had lived the carefree life of a single man. SW was due back home in a matter of hours and he knew that he'd be returning to everything he no longer wanted ... the responsibilities that come with being a husband and father, having to account for his time, money etc. It was all about freedom to do whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted and with whomever he wanted.

I believe he had decided to put his plan in motion while he was away with the family for the last week or so of SW's absence with the girls. This is when he started to distance himself from her, but he may have considered it even earlier.

As far as not having much time to work with, that was only because SW's flight had been delayed by 3 hours.
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He also was with them the last week in NC. He was reported as distant and not engaged at that point. He was already exhibiting signs of detachment. So if they all fly home together and he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy, she’s probably a bit blindsided, but keeps super busy getting ready for her upcoming weekend in AZ which had been planned months before.

He’d known she was going away for that the whole time (she told viewers online about this trip in a video even before they went on the Thrive lifestyle getaway to San Diego in June).

I’m guessing that he knew what he intended to do at least a week in advance (or at least by the time they returned to CO).

Perhaps he felt that it was the perfect time because she would be away for 3 days, giving him a whole weekend to work out details. It also physically provided distance from her to maintain the confidence to carry it out.

People who insist that he just snapped can’t grasp this, but as sloppy as he was, this was also somewhat methodically carried out. Most people’s first impulse is not to dump their children in crude oil tanks and their wife into a shallow grave. It requires some foresight as well as planning.

That’s not to say that this normally mild mannered seeming person didn’t in a sense snap-or blow up. But he seems to have known exactly what he was doing and ran out of time to finish setting it up the way he had initially intended. The fact that he had no idea about the doctors appointment says that SW either didn’t tell him or he forgot.

My sense is she may not have told him if things had been tense on their trip.
 
MsBetsy said:
It definately would have made it harder for the AP to find out that he had spent a week with his family. Who knows what he may have told her? He was probably lying to her the whole time and then was desperately trying to keep the lie going. Jmo
Click to expand...

When Gerard Baden-Clay killed his wife Allison, it was a case of things coming to a head. He’d told his mistress he would separate, he’d told his wife they’d work on their relationship, the wife and the mistress were due to be at the same real estate conference, they had financial pressures too.. he’d created a pressure cooker. Everything was about to explode, and his solution became murder.

I wouldn’t be surprised if something silimar happened here. That somehow his worlds were about to collide and his solution to prevent it was murder.
 
kirkassoc said:
Do we know for a fact that the girls were found in "separate" tanks? I am wondering if he went to the tanks, earlier, and drained one into the other (as can be done) then loosened the bolts on the other man hole side (called premeditation). When he brought their bodies there, he put the little ones into one tank, rebolted the man opening and reversed the drain back filling the one that held their bodies. Then, he quickly buried Shanann in a shallow grave.

I wonder how little time it would have taken to bury those two little bodies rather than dumping them into a tank of oil. That has got to be the cruelest, heartless act a father could commit on their own babies bodies. It would have taken time to carry them, individually, up to those openings on top (if he did it that way). Why not use that time to bury them. It's obvious, he's trying to reveal that horrific part of "who he really is" from everyone, IMHO.
Click to expand...
Maybe he could have done that, and the fellow in the AB interview mentioned something like that being possible, but there would be some consideration as to how much oil there was in each tank, if the tank being pumped to would have to have room for the oil from the other tank, etc. I tend to doubt this is what happened because AB and other previous reports said the tanks were full when the kids were found, where would that oil have come from if he was balancing oil levels between the 2 tanks? If the kids were in separate tanks, that is emptying both tanks alternately to place a kid in each tank bottom. It doesn't make sense to me, where does he get the oil to fill both tanks afterwards?

ETA someone with relatives in the industry said there was a system in each tank to measure the levels. A kind of lead weight connected to a chain, IIRC. I assume that this high tech measuring of the oil levels can be monitored by the office, otherwise why have it? There is more than just oil levels going on, there are gases which have to be released because of pressure, IIRC. I doubt that a guy with his job could just fool around with oil levels in tanks, especially emptying the tanks without the office knowing. That could mean a severe oil leak into the environment.
 
Serena Angelique said:
He also was with them the last week in NC. He was reported as distant and not engaged at that point. He was already exhibiting signs of detachment. So if they all fly home together and he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy, she’s probably a bit blindsided, but keeps super busy getting ready for her upcoming weekend in AZ which had been planned months before.

He’d known she was going away for that the whole time (she told viewers online about this trip in a video even before they went on the Thrive lifestyle getaway to San Diego in June).

I’m guessing that he knew what he intended to do at least a week in advance (or at least by the time they returned to CO).

Perhaps he felt that it was the perfect time because she would be away for 3 days, giving him a whole weekend to work out details. It also physically provided distance from her to maintain the confidence to carry it out.

People who insist that he just snapped can’t grasp this, but as sloppy as he was, this was also somewhat methodically carried out. Most people’s first impulse is not to dump their children in crude oil tanks and their wife into a shallow grave. It requires some foresight as well as planning.

That’s not to say that this normally mild mannered seeming person didn’t in a sense snap-or blow up. But he seems to have known exactly what he was doing and ran out of time to finish setting it up the way he had initially intended. The fact that he had no idea about the doctors appointment says that SW either didn’t tell him or he forgot.

My sense is she may not have told him if things had been tense on their trip.
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BBM
Do we know that he had no idea of her Dr. appt? If he did know then it might have some relevance.
 
This article was published today, although it's simply a re-hash of what most of us already know. I'm posting it anyway for those who may not be caught up on the most recent events.
Autopsies in the Watts Murders Contain 'Critical Evidence,' So Prosecutors Want Them Kept Secret

“The observations and findings contained in the coroner’s autopsy report will be critical evidence at trial,” prosecutors argued. “The disclosure of this information to the public prior to trial could result in tainting witnesses that have not yet been interviewed and impacting future jurors.”
 
Gardener1850 said:
Here' the part about that from last night's transcript:

BANFIELD: So, I want to just mention one other thing, Steve. As you`ve been working the case, you know, another document on the court website said

that a bag was found at the site and it was a nonporous which makes us think plastic and that there was a --

HELLING: Right.

BANFIELD: -- barefoot print on that bag and that`s why they wanted the print. But you discovered that`s not the only thing that was found at thesite.

HELLING: I`m trying to recall what -- I mean, the plastic bag or the nonporous bag was number 26 in the list of things that they found. So they

all sorts of evidence. They have all sorts of different things.

[18:34:59] Some of the things we don`t know about. Most of them we don`t. And they`re using that as they are putting it together, a case against him

and kind of figuring out exactly what happened.

BANFIELD: Yeah, I was reading in one of your exclusives that on top of that plastic bag, that a source even told you there was more than that.

Trust me, there was a lot more evidence that they --

HELLING: Right.

BANFIELD: -- determined to be connected to this scene. And important to note as well that those autopsies are going to remain private for now. The

order today saying when the prosecutors get the autopsies eventually, they must notify the court immediately and then hand them over to the defense.

But as of now, they remain confidential.

And maybe what we went through today, remember the size of this? Remember what it would be like to try to perhaps get a child through that? Maybe this is one of the reasons why the autopsy is still being held secret.

CNN.com - Transcripts
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I couldn't understand the relevance of a footprint on a plastic bag. He admitted to being there. I just figured due diligence in case he changes his story again.

But with the info about how to get the bodies in the tanks, I'm scared it might be relevant for other reasons. Like he put the bag over their heads or whatever as he stomped them into the tanks.

Maybe he was barefoot so as not to get his shoes covered in oil or blood.

I usually don't go for gruesome speculation but man. That segment has my brain spinning in horrible directions. I hope it's all sensationalist nonsense and that the opening was bigger.
 
NuttMegg said:
Maybe he could have done that, and the fellow in the AB interview mentioned something like that being possible, but there would be some consideration as to how much oil there was in each tank, if the tank being pumped to would have to have room for the oil from the other tank, etc. I tend to doubt this is what happened because AB and other previous reports said the tanks were full when the kids were found, where would that oil have come from if he was balancing oil levels between the 2 tanks? If the kids were in separate tanks, that is emptying both tanks alternately to place a kid in each tank bottom. It doesn't make sense to me, where does he get the oil to fill both tanks afterwards?

ETA someone with relatives in the industry said there was a system in each tank to measure the levels. A kind of lead weight connected to a chain, IIRC. I assume that this high tech measuring of the oil levels can be monitored by the office, otherwise why have it? There is more than just oil levels going on, there are gases which have to be released because of pressure, IIRC. I doubt that a guy with his job could just fool around with oil levels in tanks, especially emptying the tanks without the office knowing. That could mean a severe oil leak into the environment.
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YES , to the bolded. The oil in the tanks is closely monitored by the bosses/owners. It is their liquid gold and worth a lot of money. A field worker can't just empty a tank and move the oil to another tank, without giving a valid explanation---like he needs to do emergency repair on the tank, etc. Those monitors would alert main office if it was being drained, imo.


ETA: I just saw the transcript from the oil expert, saying that he thought CW moved the oil from one tank to the other, etc. That surprises me, that the main office wouldn't notice if that was happening. But maybe not?
 
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kkdj said:
BBM
Do we know that he had no idea of her Dr. appt? If he did know then it might have some relevance.
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I feel he didn’t know but can’t prove it. It seems imprudent of him had he wanted to buy time to forget about it. I have seen that he hadn’t gone with her to another Colorado OBGYN appointment on one of her videos, so it’s not as though it was unusual for him not to go. It does seem unusual that she didn’t tell him though.

From what I understand she was having a sonogram and for her that seems like it might have been a noteworthy occasion. She also told everyone her daily itinerary/schedule a lot.

She may have very well told him, but had he started to tune her out he may not have paid attention to that or worried about it. That’s why his “play date” story was so implausible! SW doesn’t seem like the type to skip her OBGYN appointment for a play date-yet he never mentioned it to reporters in the interviews
 
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