Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #33

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I couldn't understand the relevance of a footprint on a plastic bag. He admitted to being there. I just figured due diligence in case he changes his story again.

But with the info about how to get the bodies in the tanks, I'm scared it might be relevant for other reasons. Like he put the bag over their heads or whatever as he stomped them into the tanks.

Maybe he was barefoot so as not to get his shoes covered in oil or blood.

I usually don't go for gruesome speculation but man. That segment has my brain spinning in horrible directions. I hope it's all sensationalist nonsense and that the opening was bigger.
this is what I have been eluding to. He had to have manipulated the bodies somehow to get them to fit into the tanks. He wouldn't want evidence on his shoes as all of it would have been difficult to be sure to get off so he went barefoot. It's sickening to think about what he might have done to get them in there. At that point tho they were deceased.
 
Not necessarily scared for anybody in particular. Scared and stressed from the events in general. I would imagine the reality of the recent events had to be horrific. jmo

"Scared" is not what someone feels after witnessing horror and knowing the terrible finality of the aftermath. That's what one feels before or during the horror itself, in fear of what that aftermath might be. Like death.

His behavior was that of a guilty man slightly nervous about getting caught. Not of a horrified man destroyed and grief-stricken over what he had witnessed and done.
 
I’m not understanding if it took 8 hours to empty it why would it take 3 months to fill it?

I'm not an oil expert, so I can't answer, but here is the relevant part from last night's transcript (BBM):

BANFIELD: So that leads me to my next question, Wesley, because none of this is now making sense. They found those children in tanks that were nearly full. And as I have learned from you, the full capacity of these tanks is somewhere between 600 and 700 barrels of oil. That is a lot. So,
let`s just say nearly full is 500, correct?


WILLIAMS: Yes, exactly. And you know, the strange thing to me is openly available, you can find the production rate of that well. And at its best, it was producing about 200 barrels per month. So it leads me to believe that, you know, the oil probably wasn`t completely drained out by whoever put the girls in these tanks, you know. They probably shifted the liquids from one tank over to the other one, opened, put it in and then shifted the liquids back to the other side. That requires quite a bit of technical knowledge. It does take a certain amount of time to do that --

BANFIELD: Let me stop you there --

WILLIAMS: -- that type of operation.

BANFIELD: -- because that was my next question. Obviously that drill site producing only you know, 200 barrels a month is not going to be able in four days -- that is the time it took to find the bodies -- to fill even one of those tanks up to 600-700 barrels. It would take three months to
fill them naturally.
So, just thinking that through, if, in fact, the opening on the top -- and again, I`ll hold it up -- is too small for Chris Watts to, as he apparently according to the police admitted, too small for him to put those children through, he would have had to do it from the
bottom, which means the tank would have had to be empty or he would have been gushed on by a full tank of oil. So you`re saying there is a pump that goes between those two tanks and he could pump one tank empty --

[18:10:23] WILLIAMS: Yes.

BANFIELD: -- and put -- there is the thief hatch, I think that is your hand Wesley, correct, next to the thief hatch at the top.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that is my hands to give you scale.

BANFIELD: They have a tank that is similar.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That is part of what kind of bent my brain. I really don`t think you could easily get anything -- and it`s designed that way for you to not drop anything through that top hatch. They keep it very small. So eight inches is quite small. That is what made me think, you pretty
much have to take that bottom man way open. And the standard design, you know, there`s 64 bolts. You have to drain all of the liquids out to really, you know, --

BANFIELD: We have a picture of that, put the picture of the bottom man way. Because Wesley has also given us an example photo of the tank where he is standing next to the man way. This is the actual site. What I`d like now is the example site of the man way that Wesley shows us, if we can show that.

It`s called the clean out man way. There it is. You can see Wesley`s hand. Now you can see the relative size of that opening. All of those bolts that would have to be opened, unscrewed and screwed back on, clearly it is at the bottom of the tank. So it`s going to have to be really --
that tank is going to have to be literally dry.

But Wesley, just in terms of the time -- because Chris Watts was seen leaving his house at 5:30 in the morning. And he had to have some kind of alibi to be working by 7:30, 8:30, 9:30 in the morning. So they were -- it`s 45 minutes to drive there. So he didn`t have an inordinate amount of time at this site to dig a shallow grave for his wife and then do all this work at these two oil tanks. How much time does it take to pump the oil between the tanks? It can`t be the same as that forensic vacuum.

WILLIAMS: No. I think you can probably do that within an hour, more or less, depending on how full the tanks were. You could maybe do it within an hour or so. And then the bolting itself, you know, I work a lot around this hands-on type stuff. And even with power tools, taking out 64 bolts on both of them, so, 128 bolts, taking them off, putting them back and taking them off and putting back on, it just takes a lot of time to do.

BANFIELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It`s pretty --

BANFIELD: I think, I mean, honestly, what takes even more time, I`m guessing, just from what I`m learning from you, and your petroleum experience, if both of those tanks were nearly full, then how would you have -- reproduce that oil? You can`t, you can`t put two nearly full oil tanks into one while you stash a body and do the reverse. It doesn`t make sense which now sadly leads me to believe that the only physical way that this could have happened, especially in the time that was permitted, was that he must have put the children through the top hatch of the tank.

And to that I want to bring in Joseph Scott Morgan who is a certified death investigator, he is professor of forensic at Jacksonville State University.

Joe, you and I have been talking about this through the day.

And I know that your theory is just too small. The eight-inch opening is just too small to put a three-year-old, or a four-year-old through. But now you know how difficult it would be to have emptied those tanks and refill them in order to open the larger hatches at the bottom. Are you rethinking the possibility that maybe something more violent happen and that this was the only way those children could get in those tanks?
Because there`s one thing we know, those children were in those tanks and they were nearly full.

Read more: CNN.com - Transcripts
 
I feel he didn’t know but can’t prove it. It seems imprudent of him had he wanted to buy time to forget about it. I have seen that he hadn’t gone with her to another Colorado OBGYN appointment on one of her videos, so it’s not as though it was unusual for him not to go. It does seem unusual that she didn’t tell him though.

From what I understand she was having a sonogram and for her that seems like it might have been a noteworthy occasion. She also told everyone her daily itinerary/schedule a lot.

She may have very well told him, but had he started to tune her out he may not have paid attention to that or worried about it.
He might have thought, since she had an appt. that nobody would be stopping by or paying attention when she might have come home. Many people just stay out for awhile once they're out for the day.
 
this is what I have been eluding to. He had to have manipulated the bodies somehow to get them to fit into the tanks. He wouldn't want evidence on his shoes as all of it would have been difficult to be sure to get off so he went barefoot. It's sickening to think about what he might have done to get them in there. At that point tho they were deceased.

I just really want confirmation from other than AB's show. We've seen experts on all sorts of shows be totally wrong in cases before. It's just such a horrible thought that he might have stomped them and jammed them into a small opening. There would be blood and skin on that opening and a ton of post-mortem trauma on the bodies.

It's too horrific to conceive of.
 
He also was with them the last week in NC. He was reported as distant and not engaged at that point. He was already exhibiting signs of detachment. So if they all fly home together and he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy, she’s probably a bit blindsided, but keeps super busy getting ready for her upcoming weekend in AZ which had been planned months before.
BBM I don't think one photo taken by a complete stranger at an amusement park is enough to support your statement that "He was already exhibiting signs of detachment". And that "he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy"
I don't recall seeing any proof of his telling SW that he's not happy. The only time I saw anything like that was in the affidavit, he said he had asked for a separation, but that was after he had murdered her, thus conveniently silencing her.
 
I'm not an oil expert, so I can't answer, but here is the relevant part from last night's transcript (BBM):

BANFIELD: So that leads me to my next question, Wesley, because none of this is now making sense. They found those children in tanks that were nearly full. And as I have learned from you, the full capacity of these tanks is somewhere between 600 and 700 barrels of oil. That is a lot. So,
let`s just say nearly full is 500, correct?


WILLIAMS: Yes, exactly. And you know, the strange thing to me is openly available, you can find the production rate of that well. And at its best, it was producing about 200 barrels per month. So it leads me to believe that, you know, the oil probably wasn`t completely drained out by whoever put the girls in these tanks, you know. They probably shifted the liquids from one tank over to the other one, opened, put it in and then shifted the liquids back to the other side. That requires quite a bit of technical knowledge. It does take a certain amount of time to do that --

BANFIELD: Let me stop you there --

WILLIAMS: -- that type of operation.

BANFIELD: -- because that was my next question. Obviously that drill site producing only you know, 200 barrels a month is not going to be able in four days -- that is the time it took to find the bodies -- to fill even one of those tanks up to 600-700 barrels. It would take three months to
fill them naturally.
So, just thinking that through, if, in fact, the opening on the top -- and again, I`ll hold it up -- is too small for Chris Watts to, as he apparently according to the police admitted, too small for him to put those children through, he would have had to do it from the
bottom, which means the tank would have had to be empty or he would have been gushed on by a full tank of oil. So you`re saying there is a pump that goes between those two tanks and he could pump one tank empty --

[18:10:23] WILLIAMS: Yes.

BANFIELD: -- and put -- there is the thief hatch, I think that is your hand Wesley, correct, next to the thief hatch at the top.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that is my hands to give you scale.

BANFIELD: They have a tank that is similar.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That is part of what kind of bent my brain. I really don`t think you could easily get anything -- and it`s designed that way for you to not drop anything through that top hatch. They keep it very small. So eight inches is quite small. That is what made me think, you pretty
much have to take that bottom man way open. And the standard design, you know, there`s 64 bolts. You have to drain all of the liquids out to really, you know, --

BANFIELD: We have a picture of that, put the picture of the bottom man way. Because Wesley has also given us an example photo of the tank where he is standing next to the man way. This is the actual site. What I`d like now is the example site of the man way that Wesley shows us, if we can show that.

It`s called the clean out man way. There it is. You can see Wesley`s hand. Now you can see the relative size of that opening. All of those bolts that would have to be opened, unscrewed and screwed back on, clearly it is at the bottom of the tank. So it`s going to have to be really --
that tank is going to have to be literally dry.

But Wesley, just in terms of the time -- because Chris Watts was seen leaving his house at 5:30 in the morning. And he had to have some kind of alibi to be working by 7:30, 8:30, 9:30 in the morning. So they were -- it`s 45 minutes to drive there. So he didn`t have an inordinate amount of time at this site to dig a shallow grave for his wife and then do all this work at these two oil tanks. How much time does it take to pump the oil between the tanks? It can`t be the same as that forensic vacuum.

WILLIAMS: No. I think you can probably do that within an hour, more or less, depending on how full the tanks were. You could maybe do it within an hour or so. And then the bolting itself, you know, I work a lot around this hands-on type stuff. And even with power tools, taking out 64 bolts on both of them, so, 128 bolts, taking them off, putting them back and taking them off and putting back on, it just takes a lot of time to do.

BANFIELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It`s pretty --

BANFIELD: I think, I mean, honestly, what takes even more time, I`m guessing, just from what I`m learning from you, and your petroleum experience, if both of those tanks were nearly full, then how would you have -- reproduce that oil? You can`t, you can`t put two nearly full oil tanks into one while you stash a body and do the reverse. It doesn`t make sense which now sadly leads me to believe that the only physical way that this could have happened, especially in the time that was permitted, was that he must have put the children through the top hatch of the tank.

And to that I want to bring in Joseph Scott Morgan who is a certified death investigator, he is professor of forensic at Jacksonville State University.

Joe, you and I have been talking about this through the day.

And I know that your theory is just too small. The eight-inch opening is just too small to put a three-year-old, or a four-year-old through. But now you know how difficult it would be to have emptied those tanks and refill them in order to open the larger hatches at the bottom. Are you rethinking the possibility that maybe something more violent happen and that this was the only way those children could get in those tanks?
Because there`s one thing we know, those children were in those tanks and they were nearly full.

Read more: CNN.com - Transcripts

They said "if in fact, the opening is too small.."

It doesn't sound like that's been confirmed.
 
BBM I don't think one photo taken by a complete stranger at an amusement park is enough to support your statement that "He was already exhibiting signs of detachment". And that "he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy"
I don't recall seeing any proof of his telling SW that he's not happy. The only time I saw anything like that was in the affidavit, he said he had asked for a separation, but that was after he had murdered her, thus conveniently silencing her.


NUA mentioned it. Amanda Thayer mentioned potential problems. The woman who worked with her mother in NC mentioned possible problems. Am not just referencing the stranger at the trampoline park, although her observation isn’t entirely without merit IMO .


BBM I don't think one photo taken by a complete stranger at an amusement park is enough to support your statement that "He was already exhibiting signs of detachment". And that "he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy"
I don't recall seeing any proof of his telling SW that he's not happy. The only time I saw anything like that was in the affidavit, he said he had asked for a separation, but that was after he had murdered her, thus conveniently silencing her.
 
I just really want confirmation from other than AB's show. We've seen experts on all sorts of shows be totally wrong in cases before. It's just such a horrible thought that he might have stomped them and jammed them into a small opening. There would be blood and skin on that opening and a ton of post-mortem trauma on the bodies.

It's too horrific to conceive of.
I agree with all of this. I'm sickened just thinking about it. Would this info be in an autopsy report or just the COD and MOD?
If this is some of what happened, although death occurred prior to these acts, would there be more charges against him or is it already covered in the current charges?
 
I know that this ship has sailed (2 threads back) but the thread had closed before I could edit my post about CW telling LE about the broken keypad.

I think what I said might not be accurate. I said that CW told LE that the garage keypad was broken. I assumed that CW meant the inner garage door that led to inside the house. It's the door that SW walks thru on the Xmas Eve video where she goes from the house into the garage to retrieve Cw's phone.

But others thought CW meant that the broken keypad was on the garage door on the left side of the house.

Can someone clarify this for me?
If you know, what door was CW talking about? Or did both garage doors (side door and inner door that led to inside the house) have keypads?

I don't think we know whether or not there was an outside garage side door, or (per the affidavit), whether or not the "outside garage door key pad" that CW reportedly told LE "didn't work" actually belonged to the interior garage door that we can see SW walking through in the Santa video.

With that in mind, I just realized that we don't actually know if CW remembered to close the garage door. Am I correct in thinking this? Being in a panic to leave the house with the bodies, I could see how he could have neglected to close the large outside garage door. If so, this could have been captured on neighbor's security cam.

And also, this would explain how NUA was able to so easily see her car and car seats.

I also wonder what else NUA and LE could have seen in that garage, knowing CW might have left behind some telling details in that very garage.

But had CW accidentally left the garage door open, I could see in that scenario that LE would have had access to a smart lock keypad if one was installed on the inner garage door. I don't see how they could have had access to it otherwise. And I could completely be wrong about all of the above. Just what I think AFAIK. JMO.
 
It used to be "thanks for the helpful post" instead of "like." So, sometimes I might click like because I found it helpful. I suppose if someone wanted to judge me based on my "likes," that's their deal, not mine. I don't know that anyone really needs justify it.
 
BBM I don't think one photo taken by a complete stranger at an amusement park is enough to support your statement that "He was already exhibiting signs of detachment". And that "he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy"
I don't recall seeing any proof of his telling SW that he's not happy. The only time I saw anything like that was in the affidavit, he said he had asked for a separation, but that was after he had murdered her, thus conveniently silencing her.

According to NUA? SW stated he had grown distant with the kids. But there's no evidence he told her he wanted a separation or was happy.

She was trying to figure it out if we go by statements of her friends. Could he be having an affair? Nah. He doesn't have much game, etc.
 
I just really want confirmation from other than AB's show. We've seen experts on all sorts of shows be totally wrong in cases before. It's just such a horrible thought that he might have stomped them and jammed them into a small opening. There would be blood and skin on that opening and a ton of post-mortem trauma on the bodies.

It's too horrific to conceive of.
It is. But think of this. If he did open the bottom way instead, the one with all the bolts, why didn't he put SW there too? There is no explanation for that. The whole thing is sick MOO.
 
NUA mentioned it. Amanda Thayer mentioned potential problems. The woman who worked with her mother in NC mentioned possible problems. Am not just referencing the stranger at the trampoline park, although her observation isn’t entirely without merit IMO .
Well "potential or possible problems" is not the same thing as your saying BBM He was already exhibiting signs of detachment". And that "he’s apparently informed SW that he’s not happy"

How do you know that she didn't inform HIM that SHE was unhappy? How do we know she didn't care at all when he was using his phone at the amusement part?
 
It is. But think of this. If he did open the bottom way instead, the one with all the bolts, why didn't he put SW there too? There is no explanation for that. The whole thing is sick MOO.

True. Maybe because she was too heavy to carry up the stairs?

I just want confirmation as to the diameter (or whatever it's called) of the possible openings. I don't trust something said by experts on HLN.

This is already the stuff of nightmares. I don't want it to be worse without knowing for sure that iris.
 
It's just such a horrible thought that he might have stomped them and jammed them into a small opening. There would be blood and skin on that opening and a ton of post-mortem trauma on the bodies.

It's too horrific to conceive of.

That is something I'm thinking about the entire time... what about the evidence (blood, skin etc.) which must have been left on the thief hatches (caused by forcing at least little CeCe's body through it)? Even if he had cleaned the borders outside wouldn't there still be evidence available in the inside of these holes since they are so small?
 
NUA mentioned it. Amanda Thayer mentioned potential problems. The woman who worked with her mother in NC mentioned possible problems. Someone on these threads that is a verified insider mentioned he had told her.

Am not just referencing the stranger at the trampoline park, although her observation isn’t entirely without merit IMO .
 
Your rant is way off target.

By choice I mean after he killed them.

By choice I mean what could he then do with the bodies.

By choice I mean he almost had to dispose of the bodies at his workplace as he had no other 'choices' of burial or disposal sites because of the GPS on his truck.

Dang.

I get your point. I'm thinking he could've disposed of them in any field, ditch, culvert along the 50 miles or so he drove.

But it certainly makes sense that he would dispose of them in a place he is familiar with where he thinks they'd be concealed. Doesn't explain where he put his wife though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
146
Guests online
1,066
Total visitors
1,212

Forum statistics

Threads
602,934
Messages
18,149,162
Members
231,591
Latest member
amelia65452
Back
Top