Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

[margarita25]

I’m curious how anyone can explain the fact that if he saw her in the act of “actively strangling”, that he didn't call 911 for an attempt at help/lifesaving measures?

 

[katydid23]

RSBM

The first thing she would have noticed would be makeup, lipstick or hair on her pillowcase. If she didn't turn down the duvet/blanket/top sheet, the other evidence wouldn't have been noticeable.

If he did have an AP there, surely you'd think he would have changed the bedding and washed it prior to the day she was expected home, but he's so gross, I wouldn't put anything past him.

I am thinking she may have visited him that evening, before his wife returned. JMO

 

[margarita25]

That's a good possibility. There's not very many women that would just go to sleep after discovering their husband was having an affair. I think it's possible she confronted him.

I don’t discount this as a possible scenario, knowing me...

No crime against that though.

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM. It is not hard for me to believe that no conversation took place that night. He is a coward who does not do confrontations.

Also, the fact that he made sure to say to her friend, LE, and the media that they had an emotional conversation leads one to believe there was no such conversation. He just seems to be making to obvious an effort to get it out there. Jmo

 

[AtticusFitz]

No, not banned, but no one can show any proof that SW was mentally ill but it keeps being hinted at.

Yes, but what about CW mental health issues?

 

[PommyMommy]

I’m curious how anyone can explain the fact that if he saw her in the act of “actively strangling”, that he didn't call 911 for an attempt at lifesaving measures?

He didn't see Bella or anyone else blue on the baby monitor. Impossible.

Two people in the same household do not just snap and commit murder using the same method at the same time.

He didn't try to save his children - no 911, no screaming or yelling, no CPR.

When your children are murdered, you cannot hide your grief. Some people are unable to stand or function at all. They fall apart and their anguish is obvious to anyone and everyone.

What does he do? He loads them all up in his truck and drives 45 minutes to conceal his crimes.

He stuffed the bodies of his daughters BELLA and CELESTE through 8" holes and dropped them into crude oil. One of the last places a loving parent would EVER want to see their children.

He dug a shallow grave for his wife SHANANN and unborn son NICO and left them in the dirt.

And possibly, continued on to work like it was any other day.

These are not the actions of an innocent man or a devastated and grieving father who has seen his children murdered. They are not even anywhere in the same realm of how he would or should have reacted.

He put NUA off, telling her Shanann was on a playdate. Then he told her they were separating. These are excuses. Excuses for NUA not to worry; for her to go away.

He went home only after NUA called the police.

I'm not even going to go into those next-day porch performances.

MOO

 

[gitana1]

Absolutely agree. I believe we have just scratched the surface of what was going on behind closed doors at the W household.

That's probably very true. A lot is going to come out. And I suspect a lot more is going to come out about CW and his behaviors which will be very damaging to his case.

But let's say there's bad stuff that comes out about SW as well. Let's say for speculation sake there could be all this "secret" evidence that SW did immoral but irrelevant things in her past. Or supposed evidence that she was involved in "shady" dealings. Or that indeed she was mean to her husband. And that he tried to tell her he wanted out but she refused to listen.
Let's say she has a past history of depression.

Or even something more.

None of that is going to be enough to cast reasonable doubt, IMO, without much, much more.

Because CW's behavior was so insane and because outcomes like the casey anthony trial are so damn rare.

And the prosecutor is no showboater. He's steady and determined and scary whip smart.

At this point I believe none of that without clear evidence that this woman was a danger, expressed extreme instability in her recent life, threats to do harm, etc., PLUS some kind of evidence that CW had brain damage of some sort - some kind of stroke or brain tumor - I don't know...something to truly explain his away his intensive efforts to conceal the deaths and his involvement, his incredible lies and his casual disregard for the lives of his children - none of that kind of stuff will likely matter much IMO or do enough with a normal, reasonable jury to cast reasonable doubt.

 

[margarita25]

I am thinking she may have visited him that evening, before his wife returned. JMO

It’s scary to think that another woman would actually go into another woman’s home and, well you know, in their bed? I guess it happens though, that there are some women out there who...

I tend to think they met offsite from the home but who the heck knows.

 

[Jennifer17]

I don’t discount this as a possible scenario, knowing me...

No crime against that though.

But there seems to be an idea that because of that, she was capable of killing her children.
How many women have been in that situation and have not killed either their children or their husband.
To me, that is an invalid excuse to blame her for what he did.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I think SW may have found out somehow while in AZ. Per NUA, she wasn’t eating & spent time in her room “not feeling well.” She had an incident of low blood sugar while there. In the car ride from the airport to her home, SW told her she was really going to need a friend. JMO

I don’t remember reading that SW wasn’t eating and stayed in her room. I do remember a photo of her with her group and she didn’t have a plate in front of her while others at the table did and some wondered if she was sick and not eating. Is that what you are referring to? I do remember reading that NUA said she wasn’t feeling well and would need her more than ever.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, but what about CW mental health issues?

There's nothing to suggest he had any. Interestingly, that's very common with male family annihilators while the converse is true with female family annihilators.

 

[margarita25]

Maybe. Or he told her he was leaving for another woman upon being confronted, and she didn’t take too kindly to that.
Either way, there was an argument IMO.

Could be. Maybe she wasn’t thrilled about her husband taking off with another woman when she was pregnant. Lying and cheating on her for months...

Even then I still don’t think she’d kill her kids. They were her whole world. And if anyone is more likely to have done so based on their actions, it would be CW, imo.

Because isn’t this what it comes down to? If there is no physical evidence (which I think there is some though hopefully), who killed the girls, Shannan or Chris?

As stated, he did kill his own baby in womb. He was capable of killing a pregnant woman. And not trying hard to enough to preserve the life of the girls should they have been harmed by SW. Which to me says he didn’t want them alive. Otherwise he would have been trying to save their lives by calling 911.

 

[Jennifer17]

That's probably very true. A lot is going to come out. And I suspect a lot more is going to come out about CW and his behaviors which will be very damaging to his case.

But let's say there's bad stuff that comes out about SW as well. Let's say for speculation sake there could be all this "secret" evidence that SW did immoral but irrelevant things in her past. Or supposed evidence that she was involved in "shady" dealings. Or that indeed she was mean to her husband. And that he tried to tell her he wanted out but she refused to listen.
Let's say she has a past history of depression.

Or even something more.

None of that is going to be enough to cast reasonable doubt, IMO, without much, much more.

Because CW's behavior was so insane and because outcomes like the casey anthony trial are so damn rare.

And the prosecutor is no showboater. He's steady and determined and scary whip smart.

At this point I believe none of that without clear evidence that this woman was a danger, expressed extreme instability in her recent life, threats to do harm, etc., PLUS some kind of evidence that CW had brain damage of some sort - some kind of stroke or brain tumor - I don't know...something to truly explain his away his intensive efforts to conceal the deaths and his involvement, his incredible lies and his casual disregard for the lives or his children, none of that kind of stuff will likely matter much IMO or do enough with a normal, reasonable jury to cast reasonable doubt.

Yes, all that and just the basic dignity of his children. No honoured graves for them with relatives visiting with flowers for two little lives lost, just being in filthy crude oil tanks.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This isn't the one I was looking for, but it includes the nose also.
http://dhss.alaska.gov/ocs/Documents/childrensjustice/strangulation/20.Strangulation Brochure.pdf
Face- red or flushed, pinpoint red spots (petichiae), scratch marks Eyes and eyelidspetichiae to the left or right eyeball, blood shot eyes Nose – bloody nose, broken nose, petichiae Finger tips- bruises are circular and oval and often faint Ear- petichiae (external and/or ear canal), bleeding from ear canal Mouth- bruising, swollen tongue, swollen lips, cuts/ abrasions Under the chin- redness, scratch marks, bruise(s), abrasions Chest- redness, scratch marks, bruise(s), abrasions Shoulders- redness, scratch marks, bruise(s), abrasions Neck- redness, scratch marks, finger nail impressions, bruise(s), swelling, ligature mark Head- petichiae (on the scalp) Other- hair pulled, bump(s), skull fracture, concussion

Ligature mark is mentioned above. Asphyxiation includes manual strangulation, ligature strangulation and hanging. At this point we don't know whether he used his hands to throttle, a ligature or a pillow. Bleeding from the nose is found in all cases of ligature strangulation but not from throttling.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Makes me wonder if he didn't threaten her in some way when she called to tell him of her flight delay. I am of the opinion she told NUA If you don't hear from me, CW will have done something to me. She certainly felt compelled to get LE involved asap and would not let CW dissuade her..

I somewhat agree. Maybe SW said CW was acting strange lately, she had a bad feeling, not one of danger but trouble was brewing. NUA must have jumped to conclusions when CW didn't act concerned about SW's welfare, which happened to be correct!
How many perpetrators have been close to being caught like this and the other person has shrugged it off?

 

[AtticusFitz]

Where is the evidence of the fueling of mutual anger?

I hope the court can establish what was going on that night. I do find it hard to believe that there was one sided or random spontaneous rage but maybe that is precisely what happened and if it did I hope it can be proven at trial. I'm not sure we have full context yet in the case to completely understand the events of that morning and that we will have to wait for trial to understand what happened and why.

 

[cailleach]

It’s scary to think that another woman would actually go into another woman’s home and, well you know, in their bed? I guess it happens though, that there are some women out there who...

I tend to think they met offsite from the home but who the heck knows.

It happens. I came home to find another woman's underwear (much larger than mine) in my bed after going out of town for a family funeral. There were a multitude of all unbelievable explanations. My response wasn't to kill anyone. My daughter in the next room wasn't even awakened. That's what mothers do...

 

[mickey2942]

I’m curious how anyone can explain the fact that if he saw her in the act of “actively strangling”, that he didn't call 911 for an attempt at help/lifesaving measures?

Well, if the defense can make a case that CW is boarderline MR, or Autistic, which seems unlikely to me, the higher level thought process of making a phone call rather than immediate physical reaction was beyond CW in the moment. Perhaps he was on some medication that clouded memory, so he was relying on the hypothalamus, which would work on emotional responses. Perhaps he has a brain lesion, that blocked higher levels of functioning. A phone call, is abstract, one removed from concrete behavior/intervention, actively choking someone. If CW had some sort of TBI, brain damage, that could explain and possibly justify the flawed thinking he displayed in a situation of high stress.
Structure and Function of the Brain | Boundless Psychology

 

[PommyMommy]

Ligature mark is mentioned above. Asphyxiation includes manual strangulation, ligature strangulation and hanging. At this point we don't know whether he used his hands to throttle, a ligature or a pillow. Bleeding from the nose is found in all cases of ligature strangulation but not from throttling.

I thought I had another resource (I usually try to gather two), but I'm unable to find it so I believe I stand corrected, your honor!
MOO

 

[MKZoo]

There's nothing to suggest he had any. Interestingly, that's very common with male family annihilators while the converse is true with female family annihilators.

I also think it’s important to note the big difference for those speculating he might have mental health issues and those speculating the same about Shanann is that CW remains available for professional evaluation and SW does... not.