Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

[bonjoviblonde]

BBM

For me it’s that I have no intention of helping a murderer re-victimize his victims. Chris Watts isn’t special. He’s just another man who murdered his family and proceeds to drag his victim through the mud. It’s been done time and time again. Same story, different year.

I have no desire to be a part of that.

JMO

Yes and I'm sure most of us who think he's guilty have considered both possibilities. If we didn't want to discuss and "investigate" the crime, I doubt we would be here. I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me think SW killed the children and everything to make me believe CW did it. At least at this point. It's true we don't have all of the evidence but as of now, I firmly believe CW did this. I've seen nothing on her SM videos that mean anything to me regarding this case. Her "oversharing", if you will, on social media does not trump what we KNOW about CW's actions and lies. I refuse to minimize what CW did or said on the "chance" that there's something about SW that we don't know yet.

I'm willing to be proven wrong at trial but oversharing online, spending too much money, being a little bossy, or even proof that SW had depression or anxiety at any time in her life will not do it. It almost seems like some are actually hoping something big and bad comes out about SW so that CW can be innocent. In any case, CW is not innocent and never will be. He murdered his wife and unborn son and he disposed of their bodies in a disgusting manner. He also had an affair and lied and lied and lied after he knew what happened to his family, no matter who killed those girls. Those are and will always be facts of this case. He's a monster. What are the odds there are two monster parents in that family?

 

[Seattle1]

I don't know if this has already been asked, but I'm curious about strangulation as a COD for a child under five years old.

How often is it a COD for a child in that age group, when its perpetrated on the child by a parent and not an accidental death?

What would it mean from a psych perspective? I read a Wikipedia page about strangulation in DV and I could kind of 'get' that (in the sense of getting into someone else's mind) but I don't understand turning that method onto a small child as a means of causing death.

I wonder if @moonlessnight @stereopticons or @Jmartinez0303 or @MindHunter13 might have any insight on the second part of the question?

ETA What I was thinking was that we hear a lot of child deaths caused by beating, throwing a child against a wall, smothering, drowning, sometimes even stabbing or shooting. Some of these seem consistent with being done 'in rage', some of them seem to happen more in cases where there's some kind of psychotic break.

From reading the Wiki page on strangulation in DV I'm getting more of a sense that it's a tightly controlled thing, not a rage thing. Is that generally correct? How does that fit in with a possible COD of strangulation for children under-five?

Good question. Also, given the circumstances, i.e., children allegedly killed in their beds, I believe smothering with pillow would be more likely than manual strangulation.

 

[Amandaaa]

IMO, the evidence we have now is that CW is responsible- we may not know or understand every little detail proceeding the event, but the evidence says he did it. I am not an attorney, and know nothing about the law regarding murder (other than what I have learned from our verified lawyers), but I don't think a person can be charged with a crime if there is not evidence to support it? Maybe one of our attorneys can answer this?
@gitana1, @Mrspratcher, @Amandaaa

Probable cause would be required for the arrest - here’s a basic graphic depicting that level (in relation to other levels) and a brief overview of criminal proceedings in Colorado (link)


http://www.coloradodefenders.us/wp-...e-to-the-colorado-criminal-justice-system.pdf

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM

For me it’s that I have no intention of helping a murderer re-victimize his victims. Chris Watts isn’t special. He’s just another man who murdered his family and proceeds to drag his victim through the mud. It’s been done time and time again. Same story, different year.

I have no desire to be a part of that.

JMO

I think we have all looked at both possibilities for several weeks, especially in the beginning. It is by examining both possibilities, and looking at evidence, behavior and the circumstances that have led us to believe that CW is the only one who could have been capable of committing this crime. We have not been able to come up with any evidence whatsoever to think SW killed her children. I think we have looked very thoroughly into that possibility, looking for clues or evidence to convince us otherwise. Some even came up with possible motives, or scenarios, and still could not find anything definitive. Jmo

 

[WildWest]

If I recall correctly, it was in between the arrival of first LE and 2nd Investigator to the house that CW became aware of the neighbors video camera and suddenly his statements changed to 1:48AM SW arrived home, and I departed at 5:27AM. That was not memory talking, that was evidence. MOO

That's my understanding too.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, when you relate them to the crime that took place. We all have our favorite songs and groups, because we somehow relate to the words or sounds. To me these two particular songs spoke of despair, hatred, and hopelessness. It’s certainly not “Walking On Sunshine”!

maybe like JMD having his magazine handy on Manson, inspiration for "kill the pigs".

 

[Mellowmelly]

Hey Everyone,

Please welcome our new Verified member, Jmartinez0303. This person is a Verified Neuropsychologist.

Jmartinezo3o3 is posting on this thread but Jmartinez0303 may post anywhere on Websleuths as a verified Neuropsychologist

WELCOME TO THE GOOD DOCTOR AND WEBSLEUTHS MEMBER Jmartinez0303!

Welcome Jmartinezo3o3 , it will be good to have another professional here :wave:

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes, when you relate them to the crime that took place. We all have our favorite songs and groups, because we somehow relate to the words or sounds. To me these two particular songs spoke of despair, hatred, and hopelessness. It’s certainly not “Walking On Sunshine”!

CW was also on one of SW's FB video's singing "Hot Dog, Hot Dog, Hot Diggity Dog" to his girls in the kitchen.

 

[Thepoet]

They have to have probable cause. But more importantly, the DA is often involved in the arrests in such cases and won't authorize an arrest unless there's more than probable cause from what I've seen.

I think we've seen probable cause in cases where there haven't been arrests like the Susan Powell case, Kyron Horman, and until the end, Dylan Redwine.

They often want much more in a high profile homicide case.

@gitana1

The arrests came very quickly and were followed by five charges of premeditated murder AND other charges. Does it seem to you like the DA feels he has a strong case and is "going all in"?

 

[Mrspratcher]

Hey Everyone,

Please welcome our new Verified member, Jmartinez0303. This person is a Verified Neuropsychologist.

Jmartinezo3o3 is posting on this thread but Jmartinez0303 may post anywhere on Websleuths as a verified Neuropsychologist

WELCOME TO THE GOOD DOCTOR AND WEBSLEUTHS MEMBER Jmartinez0303!

Welcome @Jmartinez0303

 

[Mellowmelly]

Yes and I'm sure most of us who think he's guilty have considered both possibilities. If we didn't want to discuss and "investigate" the crime, I doubt we would be here. I have seen absolutely nothing that would make me think SW killed the children and everything to make me believe CW did it. At least at this point. It's true we don't have all of the evidence but as of now, I firmly believe CW did this. I've seen nothing on her SM videos that mean anything to me regarding this case. Her "oversharing", if you will, on social media does not trump what we KNOW about CW's actions and lies. I refuse to minimize what CW did or said on the "chance" that there's something about SW that we don't know yet.

I'm willing to be proven wrong at trial but oversharing online, spending too much money, being a little bossy, or even proof that SW had depression or anxiety at any time in her life will not do it. It almost seems like some are actually hoping something big and bad comes out about SW so that CW can be innocent. In any case, CW is not innocent and never will be. He murdered his wife and unborn son and he disposed of their bodies in a disgusting manner. He also had an affair and lied and lied and lied after he knew what happened to his family, no matter who killed those girls. Those are and will always be facts of this case. He's a monster. What are the odds there are two monster parents in that family?

You took the thoughts in my head and explained the reasoning perfectly. I agree 100 %

 

[Seattle1]

It's definitely not, alas.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/File/Media/Holiday/Holiday_List_2018.pdf

October 8, 2018 is on the list...

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think we have all looked at both possibilities for several weeks, especially in the beginning. It is by examining both possibilities, and looking at evidence, behavior and the circumstances that have led us to believe that CW is the only one who could have been capable of committing this crime. We have not been able to come up with any evidence whatsoever to think SW killed her children. I think we have looked very thoroughly into that possibility, looking for clues or evidence to convince us otherwise. Some even came up with possible motives, or scenarios, and still could not find anything definitive. Jmo

IMO we know very little. I think there's way more that we don't know yet. It's hard to find evidence when so little has been made public.
jmo

 

[Amonet]

IMHO - If he saw the children on the monitor at all, it was after HE killed them, was in the other room for some reason, and looked at his "handy-work" on the monitor. I believe most of his lies encompassed some truth. Yes, he probably did see a blue child, after he had killed her, up close and personal, not on a monitor.

The thing is that we keep hearing that it's unlikely for a child to turn 'blue' all over, like the 'blue' in the monitor. Things like blue lips can occur during an asthma attack or a severe allergy attack and are not necessarily a sign of irreversible death. So even if he had a baby monitor that could show a blue child, it seems unlikely it would be all that noticeable from the monitor, plus the child could be revivable if paramedics can get there fast.

And this thing about seeing Shanann 'actively' strangling a child on the monitor. I am curious to find out whether the monitor is positioned in such a way that he could see that or if he would only see Shanann's back as she bends over the child and wouldn't look any different from bending over kissing the child goodnight. It's possible that he could lie about the position he says he saw Shanann in to match where she would have to be in order to be seen on the monitor, but I'm curious to see if that's possible from the monitor position.

 

[BeanieBod]

IMO, the rendezvous occurred Saturday night when CW allegedly left girls with babysitter. Possible there were 2 visits (Sat/Sun) but not probable...MOO

Do we know if the babysitter came to their house OR did he take them to the babysitter?

 

[Mellowmelly]

I have a question about one of the charges, “unlawful termination of pregnancy”. Is that the charge for the loss of the fetus, since CO doesn’t have a fetal homicide law? Or could CW have tried to abort the baby?

Yes from what I have read on here, it’s the only way they can bring charges and make him accountable for the loss of the baby.

 

[Yvettea]

Welcome Jmartinezo3o3. Can you comment on CW’s apparent delusionary state of mind?

 

[Jennifer17]

IMO we know very little. I think there's way more that we don't know yet. It's hard to find evidence when so little has been made public.
jmo

We have plenty of evidence of a man who hid the bodies of his little girls and wife, who lied about their whereabouts, who lied about having an affair. Who showed no grief at the deaths of his family and smiled and laughed while telling these lies.
Is that what an innocent man does?

 

[MsBetsy]

It would be interesting if the defense went down the path of TBI or some sort of brain damage that could potentially justify the flawed thinking of CW.

He reacted to SW choking the children by choking her, and disposed of the bodies.

The problem with this defense, is the subsequent lying to LEO, and news people. That will be the point to hit home for the prosecution. What caused this behavior?

And, even if CW does/did have some sort of trauma, it still does not rule out life in prison, with a finding of guilty on all counts. Aaron Hernandez definitely had brain damage, and was still sentenced to prison for murder.

Well, we now have a neuoropsychologist who may be able to help us with that! Maybe they already have. I'm still many posts behind. I'm looking forward to hearing what this poster has to say!

 

[human]

I am thinking she may have visited him that evening, before his wife returned. JMO

The houses are so close that I cannot believe she came to the house. Perhaps she would think it was amusing to be smuggled in via ghe garage . Who knows. People have all kinds of things they enjoy.

Rather, I would think he would go to her place or maybe they even went to a vacation place. If she is single, she has an income and they could rent someplace.