Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #5

[MrsWatson]

I remember years ago a comedian/actor (Phil Hartman) was murdered by his wife who was taking antidepressants. Zoloft, I believe it was.

She was also doing boat loads of cocaine and drinking heavily as well, IIRC.

 

[Nanjack00]

I think with the article / video newsreport being early on when she was missing, those details that some are asking on this page are answered in a more thorough article here (FYI, same one friend, we’ve seen two different last names used).

Atkinson said she became immediately concerned about Watts when she didn't hear from her on the day she went missing. She said Watts had plans to see her doctor that day and missed the appointment.

She said she drove to the Watts' family home that day. But she got no answer when she rang the bell and noticed that Shanann's car was in the garage.

She told ABC News on Sunday that she called Chris Watts to express her concern. Then she called the Frederick Police Department and asked for a welfare check on Shanann.

She said Chris later showed up and they went into the house with a police officer.

When they found Watts' purse and cell phone inside the house and her keys inside her car in the garage, Atkinson became even more alarmed.
'I hope it's a boy for him': Pregnant wife, weeks before husband allegedly killed her

I wonder what would have happened if the police weren't there when she walked through the house with him. I wondered if Nickole would have met the same fate.

 

[CARIIS]

hi marg25

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I wonder what would have happened if the police weren't there when she walked through the house with him. I wondered if Nickole would have met the same fate.

I never even thought of that! What a horrifying idea! I believe CW would be capable of just about ANYTHING.

 

[Herat]

I watched CW in the San Diego video. I thought he looked thoroughly bored, aloof, and frankly he came off to me as a real jerk. He was standing next to another guy and he didn't even interact with him (that I could tell). In other words if he was having fun I didn't see that. JMHO

He seemed OK to me. He did talk to the husband of the other woman in the video. He responded when Shannann intoduced him. He didnt seem out of the ordinary to me

 

[Deleted member 172065]

I can vouch for anti depressants causing severe personality changes in some people. I was put on one and quickly became suicidal and confused. I threw them out instead of tapering and it was horrible. They do say one of the side effects can be suicidal thoughts and violent actions. Don't know if he was on one, but who knows how Thrive effected him. Back in college I had a boyfriend taking some shred type stuff when epinephrine was still legal and he became very angry, he stopped use when we figured it out.

Now me.... I am very, very pro anti-depressants from personal experience. My bipolar relatives can't use them, though. They need mood stabilizers instead.

 

[jodiele]

I can vouch for anti depressants causing severe personality changes in some people. I was put on one and quickly became suicidal and confused. I threw them out instead of tapering and it was horrible. They do say one of the side effects can be suicidal thoughts and violent actions. Don't know if he was on one, but who knows how Thrive effected him. Back in college I had a boyfriend taking some shred type stuff when epinephrine was still legal and he became very angry, he stopped use when we figured it out.

Ive been scanning the reviews of Thrive quite a few mentions of Depression and Aggression. This stuff sounds like a nightmare.

 

[leighmarker]

I hope they did bloodwork for drug test when he was arrested. At least a urine test. Just to see if more than thrive going on.

Pretty sure they need a court order before they do a blood test. Even if someone is arrested, they still have rights.

 

[fraudqueen]

I seriously doubt they did any "testing" on him when arrested.

 

[Herat]

A few things I'm wondering about. Are the oil tanks involved in this case big enough for an adult to fit through the opening? Did he intend to put SW in one as well? Was she too big, being an adult, for him to get her into the tank? Where was the oil destined for? Are the tanks ever drained otherwise? When oil is removed from the tanks, is it for processing? Sale? Transfer? Would decomposition byproducts become noticable? Would the oil restrict or aid decomposition? Are they going to find internet searches on these types of questions? Were the oil tanks something he thought of before or after the murders?

In spite of things that have rubbed others the wrong way (I get it), I feel like N bit down like a pit bull and wouldn't let go when she sensed something was wrong. Had she not been so persistent and involved LE so quickly, it's possible that CW would have had more staging time, making this case that much harder for authorities to solve and prosecute.

Edited for spelling.

From what has been described, the opening is 24-36 inches diameter, depending on the overall tank size.

I think he intended to put her in there, too. LE described the tank as almost full, so maybe he decided there wasnt enough space & the tank might overflow - leading to have someone check it out

I don't think the shallow grave she was put in was intended to be permanent. Likely he had other plans to put her in a tank the next night

 

[Parch]

I find it odd that Chris wasn’t wearing his wedding ring when he did his infamous interview...

 

[Colorado303]

Yes, I do judge her for using this tragedy to promote that garbage stuff for her own financial benefit. There are friends and then there are friends.....

Where have you seen her promoting Thrive? I haven’t heard her mention it in any of her interviews and her FB page usually has lots of Thrive posts but the only mention since Monday is if someone wants something Thrive related she’s not dealing w/it now but will get back to them. Lots of Shanann memories/pics and and some are at Thrive events, but I don’t think thats why she posted them— it’s where she spent happy times w/Shanann. Other than that, the only new post is this link to a petition to change Colorado law so that crimes that result in the death of a fetus can be considered murder. Here’s that link for any colorado residents that want to sign.

John Hickenlooper

In the GMA interview she says she really wants people to know if someone who’s patterns you know well has a sudden change and you’re worried, don’t just text/phone them — put down the phone and go check on them in person. It’s the only time in that interview she broke down and sobbed and I believe getting that message out is really important to her.

I’m sure press outlets eager to get her on camera have told her by granting interviews she can possibly save someone’s life. They convince people to go on the air for a living while she’s having to decide whether to do interviews for the very first time. During what’s probably the saddest, weirdest most surreal week of her life. I’m sure she’s turned down far more than she’s granted and IMO judging or dragging her (or anyone) through the coals right now only compounds what is a horrific tragedy.

 

[zencompass]

I was just watching this video of Nickole Atkinson (link is below):

“I knew he had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that.”

"Atkinson went on to say that the couple was “having some issues” around three weeks before the murders and said that Watts “wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was.”

“He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. He wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is,” she said.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...-chris-watts-was-arrested-for-familys-murder/

 

[leighmarker]

I find it odd that Chris wasn’t wearing his wedding ring when he did his infamous interview...

I don't wear mine, cause I might of gained a little weight in 20 years. Hubs, doesnt wear his. I don't find that strange.

 

[Shellknob]

I find it odd that Chris wasn’t wearing his wedding ring when he did his infamous interview...

He also wasn't wearing the ring when she did the pregnancy reveal video.

 

[Herat]

I'm trying to back off my distaste for the interview N did. I really am. I think her heart is good and if she hadn't raised an alarm, we'd all still be wondering and might be forever. But I do heartily think that LeVel needs to step in and tell all S's "people" that she was a valued member who will be greatly missed and they've got her people this month. Let them grieve without worrying about their stupid down line. It was obvious she was well-loved.

I also think this will be a DP case. And I think it will be some kind of combo of the Thrive/Christian Longo defense. And I'm guessing that he's been doing the Thrive for a while, so wouldn't a negative reaction already have happened?

Still nada from his family? I can't say I blame them and they must be hurting so much as well.

Considering the scrutiny that the products Thrive and Burn are going to get in this trial, Le-Vel would be smarter to issue a dignified statement about her loss and not overtly keep shilling these products.

 

[HayLouise]

‘Just got a copy of nearly 80 documents related to the Chris Watts case. Here’s what I learned:

-Defense asked for Shanann’s nails to be swabbed for DNA

-Defense asked for girl’s necks to be swabbed for DNA

-Defense has been trying to block media coverage to ensure a fair trial’

Meghan Lopez on Twitter

*video at link

 

[CARIIS]

The Fantasy Bond
"The Fantasy Bond is a form of self-parenting and self-protection that offers an illusion of pseudo-independence at the expense of real relating."

The more we learn about her the more relevance this has - will repost

The Fantasy Bond: A substitute for a truly loving relationship
Defenses formed in childhood hurt adult relationships.

Many struggles we face in our current interpersonal relationships arise from a core defense formed in childhood known as the “fantasy bond.” Maybe you're wondering why you're losing the "spark" between you and your partner or why you can't seem to stop worrying about your kids. You may be surprised to learn that what's really at the root of these frustrating dynamics is a fantasy bond. As the central concept of my father, Dr. Robert Firestone’s, theory, the fantasy bond describes an illusion of fusion we originally form with our parent or primary caretaker. This fantasy of being at one with our caretaker acts as a defense, helping relieve anxiety and emotional pain at times of distress. However, as we grow up, this very defense system limits our ability to pursue or accept real love and connection. Understanding this defense can be life-changing. Here, I share a brief guide to the fantasy bond that can shed light into how this type of bond forms, goes on to limit our lives, and how we can takes steps to break free of the destructive elements of our current relationships.

How fantasy bonds develop

The fantasy bond is a primitive defense mechanism that we developed in early childhood as a way of maintaining an illusion of safety and security at those times when we experienced overwhelming frustration, hurt, or even terror. Infants have a natural ability to comfort themselves by using images and memories of past feeding experiences to ward off the anxiety of being temporarily separated from their mothers. Fantasy helps reduce feelings of hunger and frustration. The child’s illusion of connection compensates or substitutes for inadequacies in the early environment. In an attempt to cope with the emotional pain and restore a feeling of comfort, infants merge with their primary caretaker (often the mother) in their imagination, magically believing they are one with that person — feeling like the all powerful parent and the helpless infant, all in one. This fantasy of being connected to another can give a child an illusion of safety, even immortality, which later helps him or her cope with existential realizations and fears.




Most people have fears of intimacy and are self-protective and at the same time are terrified of being alone. Their solution to their emotional dilemma is to form a fantasy bond. This illusion of connection and closeness allows them to maintain an imagination of love and loving while preserving emotional distance. Destructive fantasy bonds, which exist in a large majority of relationships, greatly reduce the possibility couples achieving intimacy.


The nature of a fantasy bond is the central concept of my theory as explained in my book THE FANTASY BOND. It explains people's compulsion to relive the past with new relationships i.e., to form illusory connections that invariably lead to a reenactment of defensive styles of interacting developed in childhood. This process of reverting to outmoded defense patterns interferes with the establishment of secure and satisfying adult relationships characterized by feelings of humanity, compassion, and equality. Once a fantasy bond is formed, individuals prefer to maintain a defensive posture rather than trusting and investing genuine feeing in others. Once having been hurt, they are reluctant to take a chance again and this defensive pattern has an insidious effect on couple and family relations.


Men and women are most likely to become romantically involved at a stage in their lives where they are breaking dependent emotional ties with their families and experiencing a sense of separateness and independence. As they reach out and risk more of themselves emotionally, they tend to attract others with their vitality and enthusiasm. In the first stages of the relationship, they tend to let down their defenses and are open and vulnerable.


While this state of being in love is volatile and exciting, at the same time it can be frightening. The fear of loss or abandonment as well as the poignant sadness often evoked by positive emotions may become difficult to tolerate, especially for those who have suffered from a lack of love in their early lives. At the point these individuals begin to feel anxious or frightened, they retreat from feeling close, gradually giving up the most valued aspects of their relationships, forming a fantasy bond.


By the time most people reach adulthood, they have solidified their defenses and exist in a psychological equilibrium that they do not wish to disturb. Although they may be relatively congenial with more casual acquaintances, there is a deterioration in friendly and respectful feelings as a relationship becomes more meaningful and intimate, because the new love object now threatens to disrupt this balance by penetrating their basic defenses.

While people may be comfortable casually criticizing their parents as adults, as children, it may have felt scary to be critical of one’s caretakers. People rely on their parents for survival, and at times, a parent’s neglect or hostility might have felt terrifying, even life-threatening to the child. Part of the formation of a fantasy bond involves young children learning to self-parent, both soothing and punishing themselves in similar ways to the parent. Children identify with and internalize the ways the parent saw and treated them. They may try to preserve an idealized image of the parent by seeing themselves critically. As they grow up, they uphold an, often unconscious, internalized connection to their parent in the following ways:

• Idealizing their parents and family — i.e. “My parents were great. There was just something wrong with me.”
• Maintaining a negative image of themselves — Many people develop a “critical inner voice,” a negative thought process, which, like an internal parent, coaches, critiques, and comments on them, as they live our lives, i.e. “I’ve always been too much for other people to handle. No one could love me.”
• Projecting negative parental qualities and behaviors onto others — Without realizing it, we can project qualities of our parents onto the people we get close to throughout our lives. “She’s going to leave you. You can’t trust her.” “He’s critical of you. See how he looks at you.”
• Recreating negative family dynamics in adult relationships — People may choose to get close to others who remind them of their past. Or, they may distort, and even provoke, the people close to them to recreate old, familiar, albeit negative, dynamics.
• Reliving their parents’ life rather than living their own — Many people find it hard to differentiate and live their lives on their own terms. They continue to listen to the “voice” inside their heads that doesn’t always represent their real point of view.
• Maintaining psychological defenses that were adaptive as children but that limit them as adults — The psychological defenses someone formed in childhood to make them feel safe and secure are hard to shake later in life, even when these defenses are no longer adaptive. Defenses often go on to limit individuals in their lives and interpersonal relationships. For example, if they used to shut down to avoid punishment or would cling to the parent to get soothed, they may carry these patterns into their adult relationships, when they actually serve to create distance, rather than bring people closer.

Fantasy bonds in our adult relationships

Though a fantasy bond is established early in life as a way to feel safe and connected, especially when one’s parents weren’t available or nurturing their needs, people go on to recreate these bonds in their adult relationships as a way to feel protected. As Dr. Robert Firestone wrote, “Most people have fears of intimacy and are self-protective and at the same time are terrified of being alone. Their solution to their emotional dilemma is to form a fantasy bond.” This bond replaces the substance of a loving relationship with the form of being a unit. It keeps people at a comfortable distance emotionally, while maintaining a sense of oneness with their partner that allows them to feel an, often false, sense of security.

So, what interactions between a couple represent the difference between real love and a fantasy bond? As you look at these dynamics, remember that a fantasy bond exists along a continuum, and most of us fall somewhere on the spectrum in our relationships. Identifying that you and/or your partner have some of these behaviors doesn’t mean you should panic and throw away your relationship. Rather, realizing the degree to which you may relate in limiting ways can help you and your partner shift these dynamics and reestablish a loving connection.

Very interesting -- align with his presentation! Presenter typically presents the information that is most (choices are being made constantly when preparing a presentation--whats in it what is not !) relevant to them:

• Notice withholding patterns — Have they stopped doing things their partner loved or giving their partner attention?

• Recognize feelings of anger and hostility as well as any critical attitudes they have toward themselves and their partner — Are they especially irritable with each other, picking each other apart and looking for fuel to be critical?
• Notice withholding patterns — Have they stopped doing things their partner loved or giving their partner attention?
• Face the psychological pain and sadness involved in attempting to reestablish intimacy — Challenging defenses and getting close to someone can make life more precious. It can also break fantasy connections from the past. If someone loves you in a way you never felt loved, for example, it forces you to face the pain of that initial hurt.
• Expose their fears of individuation and separation — A person may have to face that he or she has fear around becoming their own person. The false sense of security they get from a fantasy bond may not be available when they see themselves and the other person as independent individuals.
• Move toward independence and respect for each other/ Establish true equality — People have to disrupt any patterns of dominance, submission, and defiance in order to offer each other mutual respect and equality as well as genuine attraction.
• Develop a non-defensive posture toward feedback and an open and honest style of communication
• Move toward increased interaction with others — This involves extending a person’s social circle of family and friends, so they have additional support and perspectives

The Fantasy Bond: A substitute for a truly loving relationship

A Guide to the Fantasy Bond

Fantasy bond - Wikipedia

The Fantasy Bond | The Glendon Association

 

[Satchie]

Well, still pondering. The girlfriend motive seems likely now that I read the above posts.
If caught, a guy can become deadly. I can't say why, but I know they can.

Maybe a girlfriend/girlfriends will surface, like for Scott Peterson, but I don't believe that would actually be a motive, since divorce is such an easy option. I can't think of anything that constitutes a motive for a man to kill his children, most Dads would suffer a lifetime of misery and guilt if they were responsible for their child's death. I also think narcissism is too banal and common a condition to explain this.

I think he must be a sociopath, like all the other mass murderers. He probably hid this for years, acting the part of someone normal, and then for some reason he couldn't keep up the facade and that part of him took over. For whatever reason, he didn't want his wife and children anymore and so just got rid of them, like getting rid of some old furniture he was tired of.

ETA: it occurs to me, it may also have been mixed up with revenge, punishing Shannan by killing them all.

 

[Herat]

One report I saw said he had a gas can. My assumption was he was going to burn her body near the oil tank and hope it caught the tank on fire and caused an explosion. A fire that hot would likely cremate a body. But it sounds like the girls were not in the same tank so IDK. I keep seeing “tanks” being referred to. I think he spead them out because two bodies in one tank might smell badly enough to be noticed.

I dont see that happening. Far more chance of discovering thebodies that way