CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[CFlo]

And what did those posts say?

That she couldn’t wait to get back home to see her girls and to see Chris!

 

[FlossyMay]

I just feel like if he really did tell her he was leaving, her first response would be either to remove his manhood with a butcher knife or try to change his mind. I can't see the immediate jump to murdering her children.

 

[Bill Carson]

Hi Bill,
I only ask this because wig stires can be forged. My now ex husband did after our divorce and tried to put a remod in my name too, which he forged.
From a quick look at her SM, and her couple top friends, I think they were both in NC at the time.... but felt it good to ask.

Theoretically, CW could have forged SW's signature and was hiding the lawsuit from her. But they were both in NC at the time, from what I understand. Don't know why he would do that.

I don't think the HOA's lawyer would forge their signatures. Not over a $1,500 suit.

 

[CFlo]

If you go to her Instagram CFlo and scroll down to the Celeste toddler years period you can see the white baby gate in two alternative positions as far as I remember. I do not recollect them being used recently with the kids.

Unfortunately I didn't save the links as I didn't feel they were relevant at that point but they were definitely photographed on the stairs and are there. ( I'd been looking for the baby monitors and shots from those which I posted on a previous thread)

Ty cotton!

 

[CARIIS]

If he had done this in a fit of anger, he would have been beside himself when he came to his senses. He calmly went to work after disposing of their bodies. I just can't imagine that.

do we know he went to work calmly?

sounds like his job is kinda out in wild blue yonder

alone

 

[Amonet]

We know he killed her by his acknowledging that he did so .

But a lot of people could 'tell' that before he confessed.

(this isn't directed at you, Cariis, I'm just jumping off the discussion that you're replying to)

Before he confessed to murdering Shanann and the unborn baby, there were certain things pointing to him looking like he was by far the most likely suspect.

He confesses to that murder. So we say that because he confessed he probably did do it, we accept that confession? But what about all those other things that pointed to him being the one to do it?

And if we say that he didn't kill the girls as he hasn't confessed to that, do we only look at his denial, or do we also need to look at the other things and put his denial in the context of a man who was already lying, and also into the context of other familicide cases where the victims or imaginary outsiders were blamed for the crime by the person who was later found guilty in a court of law based on evidence?

We are not privy to the official confession by CW of his responsibility for murdering his wife and unborn child. We are not privy to his official accusation of Shanann for the murder of the girls.

If we remove both of these things, for the simple reason that we are not privy to either and cannot assess them fully without being privy to the exact wording and body language during this confession and accusation, then we go back to where we were before, where CW shows a lot of signs that he committed all the murders that night.

In either case, we are not privy to the specifics of the forensic evidence. But we can reasonably deduce that the prosecution believed with what they collected by the time of the charges being brought, that they would be able to bring a case on all those charges that had a reasonable chance of converting into a guilty verdict. That they believe that does not mean the charged person is guilty. But it may point to them having evidence that we are not aware of that is supportive of the charges.

The defense on the other hand has to defend regardless. The DA's office when bringing charges has more options as it can choose which charges to bring. They have not brought the charge of CW murdering Shanann and the unborn child based on the confession. They could just as easily bring a strong case against CW (assuming there is not extreme forensic evidence that he is not culpable) regardless of his confession. Therefore the confession/accusation are virtually irrelevant in determining whether he's likely to be the perpetrator in any of these murders. He can say he's guilty, that doesn't make him guilty. He can accuse Shanann, that doesn't make him innocent. He can accuse Dieter the dog. His finger-pointing is as irrelevant as his confession, other than it is fairly consistent with cases of familicide where the overwhelming evidence is that the male/husband/father figure did it all.

 

[DAdvocate]

I just feel like if he really did tell her he was leaving, her first response would be either to remove his manhood with a butcher knife or try to change his mind. I can't see the immediate jump to murdering her children.

Unless she was beginning a murder-suicide situation and he stopped her by killing her.

 

[CFlo]

Theoretically, CW could have forged SW's signature and was hiding the lawsuit from her. But they were both in NC at the time, from what I understand. Don't know why he would do that.

I don't think the HOA's lawyer would forge their signatures. Not over a $1,500 suit.

First ty for the info, second,y ty for reading them my multitasking spelling ghastly errors and third, seeing the same. So yeah, no pint to that really on my first thought, which I was mistaken.

 

[PommyMommy]

I also believe as there is too much being put into his smile, there is also too much being put into the oil. When a child dies , some parents have them cremated. You're basically burning their whole body to ash, but that is acceptable? IMO

About .34 into the video. This is what a grieving father looks like. Much is being said about the oil because it is unconscionable that a human being could do such a thing, let alone a father - to his own children. What is acceptable to some, may not be to others, so cremation or burial is a personal decision.

 

[MCDRAW]

his confession makes sense in this regard

his use of the word "emotional " pause and lets leave it there

why not say everything was fine

think about statement..............

I couldn't figure out why he said that either, unless he was worried someone had heard the noise.

 

[Amonet]

Ok so this is not going to be popular.
I’m just curious. Are you SO sure that you know how this happened that you would bet everything you own or your child’s life on this assumption. I’m not “supporting” CW or “biased” against SW but I also would NEVER bet my child’s life on the belief that it happened one way or another at this stage of the investigation. This is where I am coming from. I Find it difficult to believe that any human can kill another human. So yes it is difficult for me to believe a mother would kill her own child but it has happened. Look it up.

A rational person would not bet their child's life if they had 1 million to one odds.

The probability is that the child's life would be fine, but no one in their right mind would take that risk.

 

[mamselleblinky]

I think he became sexually obsessed with the mistress. He obsessed about her all day and about the “objects” that were in the way (his family). He decided to remove them so that he could fulfill his desire and obsession. He killed the girls and waited for SW to come home so he could get her out of the way and go see the mistress, but she was late and really screwed up his plans. He thought he would go and tell his mistress that SW left and it was over.

If it was simply a case of him “snapping” I think he would have shown more emotion in the courtroom. He would have had some realization of what he had done and broken down.

His family members were simply obstructive objects to him. He removed them in the simplest way possible. He had thought about it for weeks or months... IMO

Yes, a thousand times yes.

 

[gitana1]

This reminds me of a case I had referred to my office when I worked for an organ / eye / tissue bank organization. We had a little boy age 4 die when his dad dropped one of those big boxy (like what we had before flat screens) TVs on his son’s head. He had been trying to move this large heavy thing on his own and couldn’t see the son had gotten in his path, and when he stumbled over his son, he dropped the tv and it killed him instantly.

This dad was distraught. The police responded to the scene along with the EMT’s and the dad was screaming and begging them to kill him. He couldn’t live with the knowledge that he accidentally killed his son. When a cop came up to console him the dad grabbed the cop’s gun and was waving it around and just out of his mind with grief. Before he could shoot himself (or get shot!) another officer ran right up in front of him and bear hugged him. Another was able to take the gun and then they all just surrounded him. He didn’t want to hurt them, he just wanted to be put out of his suffering.

I talked to the dad later that day because he wanted to donate his son’s heart valves and he just kept saying he didn’t deserve to live and that it hurt so much to breathe knowing his son wasn’t. I almost quit my job that day. It was so so sad.

Shanann’s dad weeping in court reminded me of this dad.

And what we need to ask is how a man who is passionate enough to lose control and commit a homicide due to love and grief, how would that same man:
a) React immediately after when it comes to whetherhe calls 911 for help or rushes to the lawn screaming.
b) Treat the bodies of his dead children (again, call police? Look for signs of life? Scream for help? Dispose of them and how?)
c) Be able to resume normal activities hours later like going to work.
d) Discuss with LE what happened (either by telling the truth or lying)
e) Interact with neighbors and friends
f) Interact with the media
g) Discuss his murdered children (by calmly and with a composed, stoic face and dry eyes, state and spell their names and blithely discuss not knowing where they are, or by gnashing his teeth, crying, screaming nor trying to harm himself?)

For a man passionate and fierce enough in his love for his children and the pain of their deaths that he throttled their killer to death, he calmed down and got over it incredibly quickly.

 

[Cora]

Which makes me wonder about the conversation between him and his Dad. Was he able to speak to a lawyer within the family before rounding out his "story"?

I think it might have been legal advice, hence all the stir about swabbing the necks during the autopsy. I think DP and how to avoid it would have been brought up immediately.

 

[FlossyMay]

Unless she was beginning a murder-suicide situation and he stopped her by killing her.

Like I said, I don't feel like that would have been an immediate response. The first thought would be to kick his behind or to beg him to stay.

 

[CARIIS]

Idk, temporary insanity?

imo

temporary insanity is a concept from 1950!

like the insane asylums

we have learned much about mental illness

in the endless mass shootings we often learn

long histories of problems

 

[bluesneakers]

It is interesting to note, that as far as we know at this time, this monster apparently did NOT have any history of DV?

Pretty amazing for a child killer no?

But if we take him at his word the exact same thing is true, no? She has no recorded history of DV either.

It is interesting to note, that as far as we know at this time, this monster apparently did NOT have any history of DV?

Pretty amazing for a child killer no?

 

[FlossyMay]

do we know he went to work calmly?

sounds like his job is kinda out in wild blue yonder

alone

IDK. Do we know if he worked out in the middle of nowhere? If he did, how did he meet his gal pal?

 

[MCDRAW]

Speculating on the other side of the coin

Mothers killing their own children is shockingly more common than you think, so much so that there's even a term for the killer moms who do it — filicide. Although people might wonder in confusion as to how a parent can take away the life of the one thing they are supposed to love and protect, psychologists say there are several reasons for why moms choose to kill, from spousal revenge to altruistic motives. But the main thing that ties all these cases together, regardless of the motive, is mental health.

Mothers with very young children are infinitely more vulnerable when a partner deserts them and walks out on them,"

I cant without him theme - and stated online frequently (life is nothing without him etc)

reason there isn't any way out for them. They come to the conclusion that they have had enough and they want to take their own life and it's inconceivable to them that they take their own life and leave their children."



Christy killed her kids

same with this family

this family as well

Killer Moms: Shocking Cases Of Women Who Killed Their Children - In Touch Weekly

I wonder how many have walked in, after a trip, at 2am and killed their children?

 

[CARIIS]

This. Fine, let's buy his story for "reasonable doubt" on the kids.

Let's even go with the story of protecting the children from their Mother, by killing her.

He disposed of the bodies on the way to work. Why? Why not call the police? That would be the innocent thing to do.

Years ago, my Great grandmother died at home, she fell downstairs. We called the police, because it was the right thing to do, we were not afraid of being accused of anything. They came, did a cursory investigation. Conclusion: death by fall.

Why didn't he call the police?

because he cut the air off from his wife and she is dead in the house.

it is not a good idea to call LE after you murder your wife