CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #9

[Gingerbread7]

Ok, this isn't going to be popular...but my ex husband had an affair. I consider myself a great mom and I went slightly crazy. We looked like a successful family. He had a great career, but he really was angry about having our traveling lifestyle change when children came into the picture.

One night, we were out with family and he wanted to drive while intoxicated. I hid the keys. For a long time, I thought if only I had not hid the keys, if only I had not choose to drive him home when he was drunk and acting belligerent. But I did drive him home with our children in the back seat. He attacked me in our driveway, head butted me several times, punched me in the face, tried to drag me out of the car. It was fast. I remember seeing stars and my head slamming back on the driver side window and hearing our children scream. He was about 225 lbs and 6 feet tall at that time. I was about 160 lbs and 5'9. I fought back, especially when he tried to drag our baby out of the car seat. I did not know I was screaming. Suddenly he ran into the house and I drove away with the children.

A neighbor heard me screaming and called the cops as they watched the altercation happen. My ex husband was arrested, I was called by the police to come back to the house, and questioned while medical personnel in an ambulance looked me over. I refused to go to the hospital, because I did not want my family to know what had just happened and had no one to look after my children.

Police left, and I went into the house. I put the children to bed and went into our room. There in the bed, was his 44 pistol, loaded. I think he was going to shoot me. I remember the sadness I felt when I unloaded the gun and put it away. I was a stay at home mom, with no money, and I was too afraid to admit to my family what my life was really like. He claimed to remember nothing. I lived the facade for two more years before I was able to get out. He cheated so much and was cruel, but still I pretended everything was ok.

My point is...I think SW painted a picture on social media. I don't think she did this just for her business. Especially with the video of her daughter singing about her dad is her hero and how CW is her rock. I think she was sending a message to the AP. And that message was, this is my family, we love CW, what you are thinking is not true, and I am not just going to let him go.

Also, great moms can do crazy things when the world they have worked to create is crumbling. I think SW took that picture of the wrapped doll, posted it, and that it was a message, too. There is zero evidence that CW took that photo. It was uploaded to her page when she was home. She strikes me as a very smart woman, who was fighting for her marriage and to keep CW. she kept the image of her family perfect.

Later, before my ex started bringing all his various girlfriend's into our daughters' lives, I remember thinking I was the children's mom and I didn't want any other woman to be raising them. I even said to my ex that it would be over my dead body that another woman raises my children. I felt that in those insane moments.

I don't support CW, at all. I felt he killed them the moment I saw his interview...BUT...her posting that photo of the doll wrapped in a sheet, presenting a perfect life, I think the defense will use that to support what CW has claimed she did because she could not bear to let any other woman be near her girls. I definitely feel this will go to trial.

 

[passionflower]

JMOO
THAT FATAL NIGHT CW was full of rage and hate

 

[CARIIS]

I believe the Thayers will be crucial in testimony of his demeanor . He stayed with them and they were so bothered by his emotional detachment they contacted the investigator . They are crushed and in tears during their interviews and as friends of both SW and CW are devastated they supported him.

they were hard to watch they seemed like really nice people can you imagine ugh

I would love to know what made them call - exactly.

 

[Deleted member 172065]

The fight.
You can have a argument, even get assaulted, without any damage to the house.

 

[FlossyMay]

Would CW be listed as a serial killer even though the 4 he murdered were family?

No. Maybe a mass murderer.

 

[CARIIS]

I don't know if the phone plays a big part in this. I think it's as simple as she just maybe put it on the couch and it fell down. I do it all the time. Of course, my couch is right by my front door. But, there are times I come in and the dogs are all attacking me for loves. I just toss the phone on the couch and then search for 30 mins (ok not that long) trying to find it. I'm sure her dog was very happy to see her. I have 4 doxies and they bark everytime I come home, they attack me like they haven't seen me in years (this even if I take the trash out). What if she put the phone down to love on the dog as not to wake the girls. Of course, we don't know where the dog slept but I haven't seen any crate pictures.

isn't greet time heaven!!

ruff

 

[BingoBongo]

I am having a hard time understanding the bias (by some posters) toward SW being the murderer of her own children.

Yes, none of us, at this point, know the actual events...but if you look at ALL the behavior of CW, most especially his lies and willingness to hide his own flesh and blood in such a heinous manner...HE and ONLY HE is the guilty party here.

 

[BingoBongo]

Someone posted that it takes about 20 minutes for a body to turn blue after "loss of oxygen" death. Gruesome, but even though you point out that the monitor was B/W, his story doesn't account for many minutes of being away from SW, ie going downstairs. (I bet for garbage bags). So we're to believe that he was down there for 20 minutes, or more, to alot the time for her to strangle one child and be strangling the next one? No way Jose, he did it.

And I am really really curious why it seems that he only divulged this story after talking to his family. If I am wrong on that, let me know. The way I understand it is that this detailed story about baby monitors and SW killing the kids "evolved" after talking to family.

Exactly. If the situation played out as he claimed, what possible reason would he have for not telling LE immediately? He bought time to flesh out his lies.

 

[notrust]

In addition to the luxury car not being paid for if certain numbers were not met every single month - in all there pics and stuff they were wearing her patches.

The autoship of her stuff was like 300 a month so we know where 600 a month was going and it was not for the house food elec etc. So if we put taxes back in around what 900 bucks or so of income had to go to caffeine and alpha sprouts or whatever patches.

Which at 60K would be a week of income for some Thrive monthly for two . I would think a fourth of income , for a household without firm income could become messy.

I dont know about anyone else but if someone bought a plane ticket for me to go somewhere it def costs money to be away from home. Even staying with family when out of town folks spend money!

Are you certain that is what was spent on Thrive? I would imagine, at her level, she wasnt paying $300 on product. I could see receiving $300 worth of product at a reduced cost.

 

[dgfred]

Well... a dadvocate would be the devil's advocate. Name fits.

 

[ketel0ne]

CW fixation on the baby monitors is because I believe he watched SW discover the kids were dead on them. Then he ambushed her. moo

 

[SeesSeas]

Where is the witness list?

Last page of affidavit..

I'm looking at the three-page affidavit and I'm not seeing a witness list. Am I blind or am I looking at the wrong document... warrantless affidavit

The witness list isn't on the Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.
The witness list is pages 4 to 8 of the COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION:
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/COMPLAINT AND INFORMATION.pdf

 

[FlossyMay]

I am having a hard time understanding the bias (by some posters) toward SW being the murderer of her own children.

Yes, none of us, at this point, know the actual events...but if you look at ALL the behavior of CW, most especially his lies and willingness to hide his own flesh and blood in such a heinous manner...HE and ONLY HE is the guilty party here.

He says otherwise, though. It's part of the investigation to determine what really happened. The DA can't walk into the courtroom and say "I believe CW killed everyone in that house and you should too." The defense has to be heard.

 

[Bill Carson]

I know this is a really weird question. But what happens to the home and personal belongings in cases like this.
Is SW family in charge of selling things and or returning things (the Lexus) or is CW family in charge.
Do you sell all the clothes do you throw things away. The house now sits empty full of belongings for people whom are no longer here.
I know weird question.
I was watching a video on SW FB talking about the new fridge they just bought and just thought hum what happens to everything now.

I imagine the mortgage company will foreclose on the house, and then they should tear it down and make a pocket park in that space. I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy the home with all that bad juju.

All personal effects will technically be CW's, though he is not supposed to profit from the death he caused. I imagine SW's family will be allowed to come and get what they want, and they may cooperate with CW's family if they can get along at all. Both extended families are victims here.

 

[Amonet]

Possible too, but who puts Santa present at the bottom of a child’s bed? Not snarky, seriously asking.
I just commented about my own son having a sixth sent (not really) so I break my back trying to sneak in and out to check on him. So for while, I just use the “baby” monitor.

I believe it's common in the UK to put presents at the end of the bed. Also to slip a coin under the pillow of a sleeping child from the tooth fairy.

 

[Denvergirl]

Local news here in Colorado just said that funeral services for Shanann and the children are scheduled for September 1st. I believe they said it will be in NC, but will also be live streamed so that friends in Colorado can attend virtually. I'll try to find a link.

 

[tjredline]

True, we don’t know. But so far in all SM posts, picture and videos, I don’t recall any baby gates.
I do respect where you’re going with that though, for sure and can totally relate.
IF a husband with a bedroom on the second floor, had kids sleeping in bed, he intends to wake up and leave around 6am ish, AND assuming there is a baby gate only at the top of the stairs (just by experience here and not seeing SW baby gates on first floor IIRC), a husband would probably just leave the dog downstairs knowing Deiter (sp) would just be all sorts of excited. So the greeting and loving would’ve occurred downstairs. Again, just MO, experience and my current family dynamics with husband, child and dogs.
The couch referred to is in the loft area, upstairs, so those excited greetings would’ve been done with already. I have two labs and one has an obsession with our tv remotes and my cell phone so I always put up high (now) when I come home (because when you think about it, that’s what smells like us most... especially cell phones).
So I (we) can really go by go by what I/we would do at this point. I use my cell as an alarm, and it sets on my nightstand, next to the baby monitor. I don’t grab it to take a potty break or for whatever reason feel like I need to do the limbo ninja dance to check on our son). And that’s where the rest of my inactment started, no cell phone in hand, head to his room.

O/T I used to do like you do though and just toss it on our couch close to the front door. But even when hiding between the couch cushions, they’d always find it. Three phones and numerous otter box cases later, I think I found the solution. Oh and FIVE tv remotes later lol. OT so reeling it back in on my part.
BTW, I do WFH, as a Technology Director, have dabbled in one MLM (not Thrive, had never heard of it prior), have health issues, high risk pregnancies due to advanced maternal age and those health issues, been divorced, mental/emotional/physical abuse prior, child that was formerly in a private preschool. And yet, I try to see all angles, not just SW. What I won’t indulge in though is someone just looking to say the opposite of anyone that posts without any experience, thought, or insight, hence my break too.

Also, poor Dieter in all this too

I think I remember seeing gates but I've looked at so much stuff, I'm just not sure anymore. But all very true. I know my kids are teenagers and if I can keep the dogs quiet while they are sleeping, it's heaven.

And I feel bad for Dieter. From what I've been reading, it seems SW was his person.

 

[CFlo]

Correct. We don't have solid facts on what their financial situation was on the day of the murders. We don't have solid facts on CW state the day before murders, and we don't know SW state around the time of the murders. However, given that SW briefly passed out the night before, I believe there's more to her state of mind that we need to know. CW was stated to be at a birthday party acting normal and then reported to be grilling out. I see more red flags with her shortly before the murders than him.

1. Public records DO show financial facts as late as a) 2015 BK filing b ) CW 2015 paystub (which would’ve only INCREASED in 3 years unless he was demoted, c) HOA dues OR fees (I believe the latter) d) SM re: Thrive structure does not lie nor could I account for any LESS than at least 13 in her “downline” (not including downline Customers) and the financial INCOME thereof has already been addressed and provided numerous times on this forum.
We do have facts to an extent on CW state of mind on 8/12 a) child neighborhood bday party until 6pm local time, b) seen grilling outside by himself evening of 8/12.
WE ALSO HAVE STATE OF MIND OF SW: a) low blood sugar, DIZZINESS, b) stating in HER words how she couldn’t t wait to see CW and their girls consistent with precious posts the last few years). Where are HIS statements? Oh that’s right, he deleted his SM a week prior to them going missing.
It has NEVER EVER EVER been said that SW passed out. Please re-read. Never was this said or even speculated on. Why are you now making this up?
Shortly before the murders when exactly? What time frame are you speaking as to “I see more red flags with her shortly before the murders than him.” We’ve all asked you prior, but have gotten zero red flags” answers.
Her trying to lift him up via public posts, her doing 99% of parental work? Her doing the best she could to provide for her family WHILE he is admittedly cheating on her? Please, as asked by many of us, show links, FACTS before you throw out meaningless allegations. Otherwise no one, including s jury, will take you seriously.
I’m curious though:
1) are you married? Have you ever been? If yes, have you ever been part of, or a victim of a marital infidelity?
2) Do you have a child or children? Have you ever?
3) have you ever been on the receiving OR given end of physical, emotional, verbal or psychological abuse?
4) Do you OWN your own home?
5) Have you ever had a MLM job? Served on a jury? Had a SM page or pages, to include account or accounts even if shared with a legal spouse?
6) had a child die, for whatever reason
7) been a party to bankruptcy, particularly because of spouse’s fault?
8) have you ever engaged in or had a spouse engage in extra martial affairs of ANY gender?
I ask these questions because I haven’t seen where you speak from experience, case law, psychologists input, nada. Playing a D.A. does NOT mean you just throw out random jargon, but have facts to back it up, much like you e asked Nyone here.
I asked you similar a few days ago.... still waiting.
P.S. I could only double check spelling and grammar of my posts half way thru.

 

[SweetPeas56]

|I have the notion of a different scene. Clearly things were not the Brady Bunch for quite some time.

One partner in a marriage cant be the only miserable one. It is kinda like an impossibility.

Financial stressors are problematic in any relationship. We have documented proof that he worked hard and was providing a paycheck.

We have one documented income stream. All the rest is marketing.

I think the relationship started to deteriorate from that point forward.

I think he had to time when alone and peaceful for a month and half realized his marriage was over and waited up to tell her his desicion

I would think both ways talking about splitting up had occurred before. I believe she took the kids and ran to family for a month and half was for them to see if divorce was the answer.

I think that helped him make up his mind. Apparently he also had someone in his life that worked for him.

I think when he told her she for the first time knew it was for real. His term emotional fits in here. From the videos we can probably conclude that she was high strung and this reality was really hard for her.

Like I stated early on I think he also told her that he found someone who he was happy with. This can often set off shall we say quite some feelings!

She had an intense response to this. Per her daily declarations that he is her rock, the sunshine of her life, being incapable of living without him , having the bestest husband ,and greatest father in the world , the best life one could imagine BECAUSE of him .

These are her belief systems.

I do not think it is a stretch to say she was scared , livid, hurt. For someone so emotionally enmeshed with another person , to also have it confirmed that he found someone else - in all likelihood would escalate the sistrum. He is leaving her and has someone.

That is a blow.

It makes total sense that he took a break from her intense reaction and went downstairs for a breather.

The phone on the couch IMO is more like her just throwing it in her rage

The sheets all over fits far more with her in rage yanking the sheets off the bed to get to the kids. It fits emotional frenzy and not thinking clearly - enraged.

He is strong . If he was calmly strangulating anyone you don't need to yank off sheets of sleeping kids to murder them.

The scene fits his confession IMO more than a lot of notions about him killing the kids before -- stuff all over the place indicates IMO a horrible 8 minutes of tragedy

It is also somewhat interesting as it relates to the SM junk the main take away is look at how awesome she is, while at the same time using the same superficial measures of contentment (smiling when ordered to do so) it seems few , now, come to the same conclusion about him from SM stuff.

What criteria are we using in determining this "love " for the children. Smiling talking an arm around them. I see him engaging in the exact same behaviors -- so why cant it be that his kids were taken from HIM?

It does happen folks.

The refusal to accept his confession IMO is def influenced by the SM parade. But the only takeaway from the identical behaviors is one is an awesome parent while the other isnt

One night I got a call stating my then-husband had a car accident/DUI with my 12 year old daughter IN THE CAR!! (Btw, he never made it through my front door again.) I've never physically attacked anyone or been in a fight, but I remember my reaction was wanting to scratch his face. I know that sounds bizarre, but it was a mama-bear thing I guess. Like the physical urge to drink when thirsty or lie down when tired, I had the physical urge to scratch his face. I didn't. Later that night, I refused him entry to the house and never let him back in. But had I been on the scene when it happened, maybe I would have acted on my urge. I don't know. I'm just saying that a violent reaction to someone harming your child isn't far-fetched.

So I could find it plausible that a husband attacked/killed his wife for killing their children, but I am just not buying it from him because....

1. He didn't call for help. According to CW, it had just happened - most people would try to help the kids, call 911, hoping even to the point of denial that they could be revived.

2. Worse... He dumped the precious bodies of his sweet babies in nasty oil tanks. I can't get past that. I couldn't get past that if I were on a jury.

Just MOO not arguing (-:

ETA: I DO appreciate different viewpoints! It helps me look at things in new ways, and I might see something I hadn't before.

 

[stmarysmead]

I am having a hard time understanding the bias (by some posters) toward SW being the murderer of her own children.

Yes, none of us, at this point, know the actual events...but if you look at ALL the behavior of CW, most especially his lies and willingness to hide his own flesh and blood in such a heinous manner...HE and ONLY HE is the guilty party here.

Although I do believe C.W. is quilty, I not only take no offense, but find it very useful to hear honest opinions from the opposite point of view. I was on a debate team in college and we practiced our skills by taking turns arguing the OPPOSITE of what our position was. It sharpened our rebuttal and prepared us for responses that might never have occurred to us.

Whenever I’m going to have a difficult conversation with someone, I still do this...try to anticipate the rebuttal. Try to think of it as a way to firm up my own beliefs.

Besides, how much interest can there be...once we’d have all posted that C.W. is a monster and we hate him.

Let’s be grateful to have a chance to intellectually defend SW.

 

[PommyMommy]

SW seems to have had such a life-force so yes I think she'd fight back but what could even she do if she has full body weight on her ( restraint of arms by his legs etc) and someone eg. pressing on those vital arteries in the neck which can mean loss of consciousness in under 60 secs?

If there were example holes in wall why did LE wait til 7am next day to do that
"BOLO well-being initiated thru dispatch"? ( Affidavit)

can you remind me what " it was real quick" was in reference to again - I know it was in one of the interviews but now the context escapes me.

I agree, of course she would have fought back. That's basically what I was saying, just that there wouldn't be the obvious signs of a fight (as in an all-out brawl with things tipped over, etc.) especially if it was limited to a small area such as the bed and as another poster pointed out, he had his full body weight on her. At the very, very least, there was a struggle. I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I think we're on the same page. ?

I'm not sure I understand your question about the BOLO. To clarify, I wasn't suggesting at all that there were holes in the wall, but just using that as an example of what would indicate a "fight."

I don't remember the question he was responding to when he said, "It was real quick." I'll try to go back and find it, but the best I can do right now is link the interviews.

9 News:

Denver 7:

KDVR: