Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #45

[Nikynoo]

BBM:
There is no evidence or credible reports that Shanann learned CW was leaving her or that he was in love with someone else.

RED BBM: What are you referring to? What will come out?

BBM: Again, there has been no evidence or credible reports that CW abused or even used steroids.

MOO

I hope you don't mind me replying to your post. I can't answer for Lila, but I sort of getting where they're coming from.

As we all know there is lots of information on t'internet (an english term) that cannot be bought to this board in regards to this case.

I agree that we have to have rules about what can and what cannot be posted here, otherwise the forum would be mayhem. However, I do think that *sometimes* it can hamper discussion about cases (and not just this one).

 

[Nikynoo]

I think most of the posters here who find CW's tale credible DO think

I think most of the posters here who find CW's version of events credible DO think better of him; it is awful but more excusable to believe he snapped like a Papa Bear upon seeing his wife KILLING his children then to think he cold-bloodedly KILLED THEM ALL. But again, this is a man capable of such a crime, so just because he thinks it will make him sound better (to his daddy, to everyone except perhaps those who truly loved SW) doesn't mean it has to be so. One simply has to believe that CW saw this was a better version of events, and I think as his lies overtook him and as the evidence mounted he saw this as a way to save a tiny bit of face. I also think it goes with his sadistic streak at the end to want to drag SW down into the mud with him. He seems himself as the victim and it is all her fault; by making it literally her fault, he salvages his own ego. I think many of those who buy into the CW version of things have a real distaste for his victim SW, and so it is a more palatable version for them. He has really succeeded in besmirching the reputation of one of his murder victims. I wonder if he will agree to life in prison because there is such a pie of evidence against him; he must suspect there is no way he will ever be a free man again. He does have the arrogance of Scott Peterson but I think in this case there is even more evidence against him and if he lets it come out at trial, it will paint a very ugly portrait of him.

I dont think anything about CW. I do however, think about this case often. I simply want more information.

 

[PommyMommy]

I think all relationships have impacts on us. She had per her self report conflicted relationship with her boyfriend, a cluster of friends per self report, a marriage that ended in divorce shortly after being married and now.

That is not victim bashing. That is a review of facts as stated by the victim.

Those of us more open to other notions are not writing the narrative - we are taking into consideration the facts that we now know.

That does not translate into taking a side. There are no sides here. It is a horror. It is exploring what is in front of us now. That is the best we can do.

Posters that open to that, are not bad people. Posters open to other options are not fans. IMO they are people trying to make sense of a tragedy.

It has been strange watching threads turn into fan clubs - when people have different notions.

What boyfriend? What conflicted relationship?

I did not accuse you of victim bashing or taking sides, so I don't know why you've brought that up. I'm simply trying to understand what it is you're talking about. It makes it difficult when posts are vague and no links are provided. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

@mrjitty
I am fascinated by this.

In my old school common law training back in the 90s (the horror of crimes lectures at 8am with a fearsome lecturer!) we learned of charging in the alternative

But it was not possible to generate two murder charges out of the same homicide

Is this a special criminal initiative in Colorado?

Presumably to allow extra heavy sentence in the victim is a dependent under 12 years?

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

@Amandaaa
I’m not familiar with the origins of the specific charge - but I agree, it’s fascinating.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44[/URL

Colorado 18-3-102 C.R.S.

5 Acts that will get you charged with first-degree murder in the State of Colorado

Under Colorado law, first-degree murder is the deliberate and premeditated killing of another human being with malice aforethought. It differs from second-degree murder in that it requires extreme indifference to human life generally rather than the intent to take the life of a particular person.1

In Colorado you also commit first-degree murder when:

• Someone other than a co-conspirator dies during your commission or attempted commission of arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, or sexual assault (“felony murder”);
• As a result of your perjury or subornation of perjury, an innocent person is convicted and executed;
• Under circumstances evidencing extreme indifference to the value of human life, you cause the death of another person by knowingly engaging in conduct which creates a grave risk of death;
• You unlawfully distribute, dispense, or sell a controlled substance to a child under 18 on school grounds and the child dies from using the substance; or
• While occupying a position of trust with respect to a child under 12, you knowingly causing the death of the child.

https://www.shouselaw.com/colorado/CO_homicide/CO_first_degree_murder.html

 

[lilaismyname]

BBM:
There is no evidence or credible reports that Shanann learned CW was leaving her or that he was in love with someone else.

RED BBM: What are you referring to? What will come out?

BBM: Again, there has been no evidence or credible reports that CW abused or even used steroids.

MOO

LE report of a long term ongoing affair.

It is true there is no known use of steroids. the pic of him mowing the lawn was, however quite surprising. Hypotheses are usually allowed here.

just moo

We go from the presentation video where we have a schelpy out of shape unappealing IMO individual. We then have a chronology of chubby Chris!

We then go to the incredible hulk mowing the lawn, at the beach being the incredible hulk.

We then go to the porch where he is lean and fit.

Hey working out can do stuff, but IMO the lawn mower pics are certainly not Thrive. The erratic changes in body size are classic signs of steroid or testosterone use. Moo.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Tomorrow at 2pm mellowmelly.

Thanks Tortoise, I will be following tomorrow.

 

[Nikynoo]

If it's the same monitor, and I am assuming it was, that SW filmed in a video showing her kids sleeping, it took about 8 seconds for the screen to change. I can try to find the video but it will take me awhile.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I was trying to convey was we don't know where in the cycle of 'toggling' that CW viewed the monitor. I've seen the footage, so please dont waste time looking for it just for me. Thanks!

 

[lilaismyname]

Thanks Tortoise, I will be following tomorrow.

will cameras be allowed?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It's not a question of liking or not liking your opinion, it's trying to understand how you came to that opinion.

He didn't say he saw Bella being strangled. He said he saw Cece being strangled and Bella sprawled out and blue. Bella wouldn't be blue unless he had seen her during the act of strangulation. That is the glaring anomaly in his story.

I get it and I understand what you are saying. I'm saying IMO what he said doesn't prove or disprove anything. Maybe he saw something on the monitor - we don't know. Either way he was either lying or that was his interpretation on what he saw or thought he saw. It doesn't prove or disprove who's responsible
jmo.

 

[Nikynoo]

RE: no links are provided.

scroll thru - there have not been any links in ages!

In the narration of the video a few posts back she describes a failed relationship with a boyfriend before the failed first marriage and friends abdaning her. moo

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

I think this is video in the post Lila is referring to.

 

[PommyMommy]

LE report of a long term ongoing affair.

It is true there is no known use of steroids. the pic of him mowing the lawn was, however quite surprising. Hypotheses are usually allowed here.

just moo

We go from the presentation video where we have a schelpy out of shape unappealing IMO individual. We then have a chronology of chubby Chris!

We then go to the incredible hulk mowing the lawn, at the beach being the incredible hulk.

We then go to the porch where he is lean and fit.

Hey working out can do stuff, but IMO the lawn mower pics are certainly not Thrive. The erratic changes in body size are classic signs of steroid or testosterone use. Moo.

The affidavit was published after he murdered her, so she would not have had that information. It does not prove she knew he was leaving her or that he was in love with someone else, which is what you stated and what I was questioning. MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

There's a difference between being charged and being convicted. IMO it wouldn't give the girls or their family and friends any respect or justice to to say we charged someone we're good, we don't need to look at the entire picture or have a trial.
JMO

Of course no one on this board said there is no need to look at the entire picture or not to have a trial.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I was trying to convey was we don't know where in the cycle of 'toggling' that CW viewed the monitor. I've seen the footage, so please dont waste time looking for it just for me. Thanks!

Ok thank you. However, if I saw my child blue (which I don't think he could see this) I would be up immediately and go to her. I wouldn't be able to see what comes next on the screen even if a few seconds. JMO.

 

[lilaismyname]

As an aside, he didn't have to confess. He didn't have to say a word. He could have lawyered up and refused comment the minute they uncovered his lies about the affair & cornered him, or his lies about knowing where his wife and daughters were and cornered him. He chose not to do so. He chose to speak.

IMO the only reason for his "confession" was to say, OK, you caught me (IMO probably via work truck GPS) and my actions led you to disturbed earth which was my pregnant wife in a shallow grave, right next to 2 huge oil tanks when my 2 daughters are missing, and one of our bedsheets at the site when the other was in my kitchen trash, but it really wasn't my fault.

My wife was the bad guy and did most of it, I was just defending my children and didn't think you'd believe me so I felt crude oil and dirt was the best option so I wouldn't be late for work.

Or something like that.

moo that is what is so interesting.

We all see things different.

From the beginning I thought after it all sunk in he was totally freaked out that he put his kids, according to LE reports, in oil.

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

 

[Amandaaa]

@mrjitty
I am fascinated by this.

In my old school common law training back in the 90s (the horror of crimes lectures at 8am with a fearsome lecturer!) we learned of charging in the alternative

But it was not possible to generate two murder charges out of the same homicide

Is this a special criminal initiative in Colorado?

Presumably to allow extra heavy sentence in the victim is a dependent under 12 years?

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

@Amandaaa
I’m not familiar with the origins of the specific charge - but I agree, it’s fascinating.

CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44[/URL

Colorado 18-3-102 C.R.S.

5 Acts that will get you charged with first-degree murder in the State of Colorado

Under Colorado law, first-degree murder is the deliberate and premeditated killing of another human being with malice aforethought. It differs from second-degree murder in that it requires extreme indifference to human life generally rather than the intent to take the life of a particular person.1

In Colorado you also commit first-degree murder when:

• Someone other than a co-conspirator dies during your commission or attempted commission of arson, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, or sexual assault (“felony murder”);
• As a result of your perjury or subornation of perjury, an innocent person is convicted and executed;
• Under circumstances evidencing extreme indifference to the value of human life, you cause the death of another person by knowingly engaging in conduct which creates a grave risk of death;
• You unlawfully distribute, dispense, or sell a controlled substance to a child under 18 on school grounds and the child dies from using the substance; or
• While occupying a position of trust with respect to a child under 12, you knowingly causing the death of the child.

Thank you

I guess I should have been more specific - by “origin” I meant I assume it (the wording of the statute/charge) arose in response to a particularly heinous crime (involving a position of trust) at some point in time... but that’s just an assumption, I have no idea how it actually came about

Heading back to trial now, we are in the process of seating the jury. My favorite

 

[lilaismyname]

The affidavit was published after he murdered her, so she would not have had that information. It does not prove she knew he was leaving her or that he was in love with someone else, which is what you stated and what I was questioning. MOO

None of us can prove anything! We have to leave that to courts. I found it interesting that they described the affair as ongoing - which I took to mean more than sex. That is speculation of course.

I am wrong more often than I am right - so you may be correct - that is ok.

All is well.

moo

 

[Steelhead]

I hope you don't mind me replying to your post. I can't answer for Lila, but I sort of getting where they're coming from.
As we all know there is lots of information on t'internet (an english term) that cannot be bought to this board in regards to this case.
I agree that we have to have rules about what can and what cannot be posted here, otherwise the forum would be mayhem. However, I do think that *sometimes* it can hamper discussion about cases (and not just this one).

Not SOMETIMES! ;-) It's very frustrating not being able to discuss certain possibilities that are against TOS.

 

[PommyMommy]

RE: no links are provided.

scroll thru - there have not been any links in ages!

In the narration of the video a few posts back she describes a failed relationship with a boyfriend before the failed first marriage and friends abdaning her. moo

We are allowing discussion of the defense put forward by CW's legal team

I've listened to the video and I typed the video summary and I'm not going to take the time to go over it again. She describes being in a bad relationship (with her ex-husband) and going through a difficult divorce. I don't recall any mention of a prior boyfriend, and I certainly could have missed it, but again I am asking you to please point me toward that specific information as you are the one who brought it here. TIA

 

[NuttMegg]

LE report of a long term ongoing affair.

It is true there is no known use of steroids. the pic of him mowing the lawn was, however quite surprising. Hypotheses are usually allowed here.

just moo

We go from the presentation video where we have a schelpy out of shape unappealing IMO individual. We then have a chronology of chubby Chris!

We then go to the incredible hulk mowing the lawn, at the beach being the incredible hulk.

We then go to the porch where he is lean and fit.

Hey working out can do stuff, but IMO the lawn mower pics are certainly not Thrive. The erratic changes in body size are classic signs of steroid or testosterone use. Moo.

When did LE report that CW was involved in a LONG TERM affair?

 

[lilaismyname]

I think the type of oil was covered in previous threads but I'm not sure. I don't care enough about that specific detail to go back and find it.

The rate of decomposition has nothing to do with my point (nor the horror of it all IMO), which is if he wanted his girls removed from the oil and that was the reason for his confession (which it wasn't, they found the area first), then he could have either not placed them there in the first place or told them on day 1 when it was clear his disappearance coverup wasn't going to fly with LE.

where I am confused on this is it was reported that they showed him satellite stuff. I may be recalling wrong. Anyone remember that or am I confused?