Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #48

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Was evidence with held from the defense team or this early in the process was the evidence disclosed to them? Thanks.
Discovery would have begun after he was arraigned. He bailed before his arraignment at the advice of his attorneys.

The Criminal Court Process in Colorado
"After the arraignment, your attorney will have access to the records available in your case, including police reports, documents, and evidence. This evidence will help your attorney evaluate the strength of the state's case against you, and identify weaknesses in the case. Your Colorado criminal defense attorney and the state prosecutor, or district attorney, may discuss a possible plea bargain during a pretrial hearing. A plea bargain is a deal struck between the defendant and the D.A. This may involve dropping some criminal charges in exchange for pleading guilty to lesser charges."
 
There are conversations that the defense was not privy yet to the evidence other than the autopsy report and questioning the validity of the plea.
I'm not so sure, I think that we may be overthinking this.
There is no way that the defence team did not know about the status of the death penalty (e.g. that it would neither be sought nor granted) .
My view is that CW has gone against his legal teams advice and just wanted the process over with. I would hazard a guess that they have some sort of written waiver from CW to evidence this.
 
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Discovery would have begun after he was arraigned. He bailed before his arraignment at the advice of his attorneys.

The Criminal Court Process in Colorado
"After the arraignment, your attorney will have access to the records available in your case, including police reports, documents, and evidence. This evidence will help your attorney evaluate the strength of the state's case against you, and identify weaknesses in the case. Your Colorado criminal defense attorney and the state prosecutor, or district attorney, may discuss a possible plea bargain during a pretrial hearing. A plea bargain is a deal struck between the defendant and the D.A. This may involve dropping some criminal charges in exchange for pleading guilty to lesser charges."

Oh, I thought it was within 21 days of CW being charged? And thats why the defence kept saying that they hadn't received any discovery, once at a hearing and also in some motions.

'(1) The prosecuting attorney shall perform his or her obligations under subsections (a)(1)(I), (IV), (VII), and with regard to written or recorded statements of the accused or a codefendant under (VIII) as soon as practicable but not later than 21 calendar days after the defendant’s first appearance at the time of or following the filing of charges, except that portions of such reports claimed to be nondiscoverable may be withheld pending a determination and ruling of the court under Part III but the defense must be notified in writing that information has not been disclosed.'
 
Discovery would have begun after he was arraigned. He bailed before his arraignment at the advice of his attorneys.

The Criminal Court Process in Colorado
"After the arraignment, your attorney will have access to the records available in your case, including police reports, documents, and evidence. This evidence will help your attorney evaluate the strength of the state's case against you, and identify weaknesses in the case. Your Colorado criminal defense attorney and the state prosecutor, or district attorney, may discuss a possible plea bargain during a pretrial hearing. A plea bargain is a deal struck between the defendant and the D.A. This may involve dropping some criminal charges in exchange for pleading guilty to lesser charges."
Thank you, so that leaves us with the plea was either what Chris wanted or the autopsy reports were the smoking gun so to speak.
 
I'm not so sure, I think that we may be overthinking this.
There is no way that the defence team did not know about the status of the death penalty (e.g. that it would neither be sought not granted) .
My view is that CW has gone against his legal teams advice and just wanted the process over with. I would hazard a guess that they have some sort of written waiver from CW to evidence this.
I agree
 
CW murdered four (4) human beings. Evidence exists that prove premeditation. CW altered the crime scene and moved and hid the bodies, two of them in a gruesome manner. CW then wove an intricate pattern of lies in an attempt to create the illusion that SW and the children had left and disappeared. Later he hinted they might have been taken. Finally, all of his monstrous deeds, terrible behavior, and self-serving lies came crashing down on him like an avalanche, burying him. He probably thought he had a perfect plan and that he wouldn't be caught. No one would know about his affair. Or was it affairs? Did he experiment with different lifestyles and sexuality, believing the experiments were hidden? Is he now sitting in the rubble of his crimes, lies, and exposed behavior wondering if these experiments will be revealed, especially to his family? I believe he's made the agreement, to mitigate a full exposure of the things he's done and who he really is! He doesn't want anyone, especially his family, to know.
 
Thank you, so that leaves us with the plea was either what Chris wanted or the autopsy reports were the smoking gun so to speak.
Could be a little bit of both. It looks like the defence's first approach to the DA for a deal was around the time of the autopsy reports were released to the defence. I would be really interested to know what that first offer was!
 
I agree. CW did not get punked. He had excellent representation.

It was reported on October 2 that the prosecution and defense had received the autopsy reports. It was also reported that there was extensive evidence against him including his own damning behavior during the investigation. The recovery of the family he annihilated would have been documented - with photos. Imagine being presented with those horrific photos and being told that is what the jury is going to see, what your family is going to see. Toddlers covered in crude oil, which YOU ADMITTED to doing.

It doesn’t surprise me that he caved. He is a coward. I did think that he’d at least make it to arraignment. I can only conclude that the autopsy reports and evidence known at the point he went begging for a plea agreement was more than enough for CW to give in to his attorneys’ sound advice, probably overwhelmingly so. MOO
You said it much better than I did! Thanks.
 
Can CW's family contact him at all? Or do they have to go thru the PDs? I still don't believe they didn't see or talk to him for 3 months. Whomever put that out may have wanted to make sure they didn't take any blame. Talk to Chris? Nope, not me.

I think that the the entire time from his arrest to his last hearing that nobody, not even his family, could talk to him. Everything had to go through his attorneys. I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.
 
Even though the current governor is not using the death penalty, what would happen if down the road, a newly elected governor decided to enforce the death penalty?

Would the death penalty apply to anyone who is sitting in jail sentenced with a death penalty?

The way our crazy world is today, who could project what it will be like in 15 - 20 years? I think CW and lawyers were looking at this fact of the unknown in the future. JMO.
 
I think that the the entire time from his arrest to his last hearing that nobody, not even his family, could talk to him. Everything had to go through his attorneys. I could be wrong but I don’t think I am.
I don’t think they can restrict who their client talks to. If visitors were refused, that had to be Chris’s decision, it might be on the advice of his attorneys but he has the final say.
 
Not meaning to sound insensitive, this is just the way it was back in the 50's/60's. In Catholic grade school. 1) kids couldn't speak out of turn in class 2) if so a ruler might be applied to one's hands 3) very slow kids and those who continued to act out were mocked somewhat, but accepted as friends 4) very big deal at the end of the year when the priest read, in church, the list of the kids moved up to the next class. The names he didn't read were "flunked". Some very large kids still in 8th grade, as their parents would never have thought to transfer them to "public school". I don't think the idea of mild mental impairment was diagnosed at all, seriously mentally deficient kids, universally called with a term that is unacceptable now, were sent to special schools.

I grew up in a small town and was raised during the time you mentioned. I don’t even recall a class with slower learners. But by the time my children were in school, that was in place. I believe the goal now is to mainstream into regular classes as many as they can.
 
I'm posting this after a lot of thought and with my husband's permission of course, all pertinent names and some specific details changed.

My MIL is a classic FA mom. Scary, but true.

I think it's so important to explore the mother/son relationship in FA cases. I firmly believe it's a large part of what is instilled these "men" to believe the wife (and children) are disposable at some point. I believe there are a lot more moms in the equations than sons, because the stereotype of the MIL not liking or approving of the DIL is so prevalent. You have to have the perfect storm of the son who has a certain personality type, personality defect, mental/emotional issue, or ability to detach and become an extension of mama rather than a man in his own right.

My husband is a brilliant, dynamic, hard working, creative, funny and very manly type of man with strong opinions and beliefs of his own. It wasn't always that way. He went through so much with an overbearing mother who did very well at trying to create a clone of herself and erase any of his own thoughts or personality, using a combination of guilt and manipulation. This is a man who, at almost 30, did not know how to pick up his own prescription from a pharmacy and thought he had to have his mom call his ex-gf to get her to refill it then have his mom come and bring it to him. I'm not exaggerating.

They finally went through a major break and he checked himself straight into inpatient rehab for counseling and alcohol treatment from trying to drown out his own existence, suppress the growing anger, and do what she told him to do. It was ridiculously painful for him. He said over and over, if I stand up to her she won't love me anymore. I see how he felt that way at the time. I think she loves him too much, if anything. He had ZERO voice, would tell anyone what they wanted to hear to avoid conflict, and it took him years and years to figure out who he was. She wouldn't even recognize him now. He's the head of our household and we're a team, but I let him lead. And it's sad, because as an independent grown man he's just incredible and she's missing out on that.

The scars are still deep, and the break from his family has been clean for over a decade except for the one sane, supportive family member he has which is - wait for it - his Dad.

Of course the only thing that supposedly changed was marrying me. But it's all or nothing to her and he can't do the dysfunction. So I'm evil, his distance and free thinking is my fault, etc. She tells people it's like he's dead now, and that I stole him and brainwashed him. (?!?!?!) If anything ever happened that HE caused, I 100% guarantee my MIL would say, "My first thought was, 'what has she done?'"

His younger brother went the opposite direction. He married someone who stood up to mom, let the wife take all the flack for it, then when mom had enough of her, they divorced her. They. We joke about it now... that Mom and Joe divorced Jane. Because it's true. Every lawyer appt was led by her, paid for by her, custody worked out by her - she had kept notebooks with lists about every fault and every argument with every ex they ever had for "evidence, just in case of future custody battles". They divorced the first wife who ended up eventually getting him to terminate all rights to their child so she could escape the BS, then he found a 2nd wife who is meek, agreeable, and doesn't mind all 3 of them in the marriage raising their son. Bingo. New family. Level Up.

I very much hope that a book is written about CW, this crime, and the family dynamics behind their marriage and his upbringing. I'd like to know what made him how he is. How he's wired. What was beneath the surface of that agreeable man who learned to be a pathological liar by default because being himself wasn't going to be accepted. When he started to become resentful inside. When the mask became more and more of a mask. What made him snap and dispose of his family instead of becoming his true self. What all was so contradictory that he was hiding. And was his true self just a psychopath or narcissist regardless, and the FA mom just formed that perfect storm?

I really would like details and backstories about how this went down. And like others have stated. I'd give a whole lot just to know what the conversations with his dad were, both in the car, then at the police station. I think if there's a glimpse of who he really is anywhere, it would be when he's with his dad.

All JMO, thanks for the indulgence of listening. Thought it might be interesting to hear about the FA mom and effects on the sons from the inside of things.
 
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I just listened to Reisch’s .”Punked” podcast. He doesn’t know any more than we do. He comes across as arrogant and unprofessional to me. He seems to believe there’s a viable defense within Shanann’s social media that was overlooked by the defense, that Shanann’s treatment of CW led to the murders, and the defense didn’t take the time to adaquately investigate. Even if some defense attorney could be so persuasive he could convince a jury that Shanann was a domineering shrew who was so unnerving she drove her husband to murder her, what about the three children? What did they do to cause their father to murder them?
 
Maybe it’s just me, but the autism/asperger topic is up there with the discussions we had that maybe the Thrive patch drove him nuts. Eye roll. I guess a lot of things could be at play here (in his background and head), but at the end of the day, I think he’s just a murdering jerk. I’m tired of every killer having (or trying to come up with) an excuse.
 
I'm not so sure, I think that we may be overthinking this.
There is no way that the defence team did not know about the status of the death penalty (e.g. that it would neither be sought nor granted) .
My view is that CW has gone against his legal teams advice and just wanted the process over with. I would hazard a guess that they have some sort of written waiver from CW to evidence this.
You think his attorneys wanted him to go forward with a trial?
 
I would like to ask a question. Had CW been formally convicted to death, would that mean he’d spend his time on the Death Row? This is not fun by itself. Maybe this is what he wanted to avoid?

Yes. It may be what he was avoiding depending on what it's like in CO. In CA and AZ it's horrible. Not sure what CO death row is like.

CO has pretty strict rules about treatment of prisoners though. No solitary except limited time periods. They have had extensive prison reform, apparently. Let me see what I can find out.
 
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