Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #50

[MCDRAW]

I said at one point very very early on that them being separated felt deliberate to me. (I don't remember my exact words). I honestly don't remember if anyone else concurred. I remember MassGuy disagreeing (very thoughtfully) that it was likely logistical not intentional. Is it wrong, I hope someone else said it first, because I'll vomit, if that came from me. Often when people asked how the defense might explain certain things away, I purposely didn't answer, even though I had some ideas, because I did NOT in any way want to have anything I said twisted in a courtroom on behalf of CW.

Bleh this is why I don't post much.

People that are looking for excuses will always find them. In my opinion, a defense attorney can explain and give reasoning why but evidence should always trump those. I know all jurors will not agree but evidence is proof and reasons aren't. JMO

 

[compass]

I really wish someone would explain the legal system to his family. Does anyone know who K Almand is? An attorney? Family friend?

Someone could explain it to them but no one could understand it for them. MOO

 

[Serena Angelique]

Yes, I think that it is a small number of people who have started different FB groups but they are nearly all the same members.
And the people doing that podcast know nothing about the case and show it.

I belong to many of these groups(why I sought out WS). IMO there are large numbers of CW supporters (based on surveys that are regularly conducted within the groups). These same people or profiles may be outnumbered by the vast majority of logically minded individuals but therefore seemingly flock to places where they feel free to voice their oft controversial positions. There are blocks in groups numbering in the tens of thousands that bully and dominate anyone who dares to differ with their position.

The groups are also culled on a regular basis and those who don’t seem to go along with mainstream “group” opinion or comment at all are uniformly ousted-making the ones who remain a monolith, but the numbers left are nothing to sneeze at as far as groups are generally judged by. I also think that is why they feel so invincible. It only takes a few fertile imaginations coupled with some very scant and subjective information boldly stated to bolster their claims and make an impression.

 

[MCDRAW]

I’m still catching up on the last thread :

Re Cindy Watts saying yes she’s thought that maybe he could have done it but she’d “fight anyway” - I too think she knows he did it BUT she thinks it was justified. How horrifying.

Secondly, I believe they’ve had no contact with their son for one reason and one reason only: Chris Watts doesn’t want any contact with them. End of story.

In the email that was sent to the judge, they said she has tried contacting by phone, by email, and by visiting and the defense attorney's have shut them down every time. I do not live in Colorado and so it may be different than my state. Where I live, you can not contact a inmate by phone. They can contact you by collect call. You can not contact them by email because they don't have access to the internet. Prison is a different story. We can visit but only if we are put on a list (prison). County jail, we can visit, if time doesn't run out and the inmate wants to visit. Again, I am not in Colorado and I am sure every system is different. I agree that she knows he did it but she feels it was justified.

 

[MassGuy]

In the email that was sent to the judge, they said she has tried contacting by phone, by email, and by visiting and the defense attorney's have shut them down every time. I do not live in Colorado and so it may be different than my state. Where I live, you can not contact a inmate by phone. They can contact you by collect call. You can not contact them by email because they don't have access to the internet. Prison is a different story. We can visit but only if we are put on a list (prison). County jail, we can visit, if time doesn't run out and the inmate wants to visit. Again, I am not in Colorado and I am sure every system is different. I agree that she knows he did it but she feels it was justified.

The real question is, does she know that he’s not a 12 year-old boy?

 

[compass]

I belong to many of these groups(why I sought out WS). IMO there are large numbers of CW supporters (based on surveys that are regularly conducted within the groups). These same people or profiles may be outnumbered by the vast majority of logical minded individuals but therefore seemingly flock to places where they feel free to voice their oft controversial positions. There are blocks in groups numbering in the thousands that bully and dominate anyone who dares to differ with their position.

The groups are also culled on a regular basis and those who don’t seem to go along with mainstream opinion or comment at all are uniformly ousted-making the ones who remain a monolith, but the numbers left are nothing to sneeze at as far as groups are generally judged by.

Scary, isn’t it? Makes me think of the The Borg from Star Trek, maybe some of us the logical and sane (I am including myself in this group haha) are connected to one main “brain” and others either not connected or faulty connection.

 

[katie565]

Thank you for sharing your story, katie. You are so brave! MOO

Thank you Pommy & I genuinely appreciate your support. I think my family story is VERY common. When I took actions to remove myself from my entire family, there was nothing brave about it. I sat in my living room & decided that I would check out in my garage because what else would I do without my family. I had zero identity. I made a decision to give it 6 months & if I didn’t feel better, at least I gave myself a chance. It wasn’t bravery - it was life or death.

I have issues and always will. I had to recognize & address my own NPD and it’s been painful. But my identity isn’t attached to my family anymore. It’s all me now. I don’t know if enmeshed kids ever really figure out who they are but the sooner you get out & stay out - the better chance you have. Oh - and you don’t have to end your existence because your biological family doesn’t approve/love you. As a matter of fact, love and approval aren’t even related.

I’m so sorry Shanann fell in love with this guy from such a horrible family. She deserved the best of everything and so did her girls. Chris probably deserved a a loving wife & family too. If your family is f’ed up - get some help. It should never, ever end this way

 

[1&2&3]

Has CW’s lawyers specifically told his parents the reason they cannot see him is at Chris’s request?

My guess is the lawyers have told them directly why they have not been able to see Chris. So all this whining Cindy is doing about not seeing him, she is ignoring what the lawyers have told her? Another doubting and denial belief.

 

[scdiv]

Yes, I think that it is a small number of people who have started different FB groups but they are nearly all the same members.
And the people doing that podcast know nothing about the case and show it.

I belong to many of these groups(why I sought out WS). IMO there are large numbers of supporters (based on surveys that are regularly conducted within the groups). These same people or profiles may be outnumbered by the vast majority of logical minded individuals but therefore seemingly flock to places where they feel free to voice their oft controversial positions. There are blocks in groups numbering in the thousands that bully and dominate anyone who dares to differ with their position.

The groups are also culled on a regular basis and those who don’t seem to go along with mainstream opinion or comment at all are uniformly ousted-making the ones who remain a monolith, but the numbers left are nothing to sneeze at as far as groups are generally judged by.

I am so thankful for the Websleuth forum and the articulate, perceptive, and insightful posts. Those other social media groups are off the wall and irresponsible. I can't go on them. Misinformation is rampant and outrageous. Everything from, "I think you have 40 days to withdraw a plea" to "I heard that CW made SW watch him kill the daughters" to "He put them in oil tanks so animals wouldn't get them." And it's stated and accepted as fact. It's fine to have disagreements in opinions, but frankly it scares me at the lack of basic critical thinking skills and that people like this could ever end up on any jury.

My head explodes so I can't even read those things. But it does make me think if Mama Watts is submersed in this world and thinking this is the norm, she's even more likely to latch on to these theories to keep believing what she wants.

I am still mind blown that she didn't have ANY attorney review a letter submitted on her behalf to the judge overseeing her son's death penalty case. This is a life or death situation, as serious as it gets. I just still can't believe they are going the most low brow, clueless, embarrassing route possible.

And it is also SO presumptuous to think CW was wrong to take a plea when she has no idea of the facts conveyed to him that led him to that decision. He is a big boy who can make his own decision. She really thinks the fact that he didn't consult with her means he is getting inhumane treatment - from his own lawyers. Cray-cray.

But I truly respect the fact that these forums have great moderators, "facts" have to be presented with reputable links, members here are smart and thoughtful (and have a basic grasp of noun/verb/direct object sentence structure. It really does scare me to see so much unhinged, uninformed, bullying nonsense and rumors out there - presented as fact and no critical thinking, questioning, verifying. I'm way too introverted to call into a podcast, but that was going to be my rant! (And also a thank you for preserving this victim-friendly environment here.)

 

[Jennifer17]

Has CW’s lawyers specifically told his parents the reason they cannot see him is at Chris’s request?

My guess is the lawyers have told them directly why they have not been able to see Chris. So all this whining Cindy is doing about not seeing him, she is ignoring what the lawyers have told her? Another doubting and denial belief.

Chris is a coward and he would have to give permission for anything to be told to his mother and he seems incapable of that.
She also would have no idea whether he has had a psych evaluation or not.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Chris is a coward and he would have to give permission for anything to be told to his mother and he seems incapable of that.

I agree completely. He lives to turn his mother's ire at someone other than himself and play the victim. SW, the defense, the jail, and soon to be the judge, IMO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

@PrimeSuspect and @gitana1
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #49
&
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #49

In my younger years, I was married to a socio/psycho (both, pick one?), who had some narcissistic tendencies. I was trying to repair the relationship that I had with my own mother through him, I didn't figure this out until years later & while in my current (healthier) marriage. My EX's mom was very self-destructive and self-centered, our moms clashed in many ways, but both were narcissistic. The thing about narcissists that many people don't know, is that they don't necessarily think they are the most physically beautiful people out there, but they will put so much emphasis on their looks that it becomes detrimental to their family (especially their children). This can be applied to any aspect of themselves. They may not be the best at anything, but they want you to believe that they are...and they will put themselves ahead of anyone else in order to try to maintain that image. The gaslighting that I had to deal with from mom, MIL, ex, and even my dad (who would defend my mom to the death, even when she was wrong, if he knew that she was listening), was head-spinning.

Because we had children to raise, I left that relationship. When he was no longer the center of my world (yes, my children were the priority, as they should be) he began to self-destruct. I didn't have loads of time to devote to stroking his fragile ego, neither of the moms were of any help. My mom was so busy being offended by him that she couldn't be much of a mom (emotionally) to me, and his mom blamed me for everything that was festering inside of him.

I'm just trying to open the windows so that people who aren't familiar with the generational poison that is narcissistic parenting, can see in.

I went as far away from the ex as I could, started a new life and family...with my current husband adopting my older children. There have been stretches of time where I had to discontinue communication with my parents, it's never a black & white thing...there is no true healing, just trying to avoid picking at the scabs, we have a more "surface" relationship now...and it works for me and for my kids. The ex is in our lives on a limited basis, and only in the ways in which my kids want him to be.

My mom always wanted a son, she told me this many times when I was growing up. She got me instead. I don't know why FA's tend to be men who come from Narcissistic mothers. What I do know is that because my mom didn't seem to value me, I value my family all the more. I have a 1/2 brother that she took no interest in, probably because he wasn't a reflection of her. Actually, typing this out, I remember asking her why she wanted a son rather than a daughter, and she said it was because she wondered what a male "her" would be like.

Once you have been around this type of personality enough you become very adept at spotting it in a crowd!

Thank you, BelleIsle for explaining how the family dynamics works when it involves the NPD parent and the enabler, what you're describing is the 'illusion', and it must be upheld at all costs, otherwise, the parent will have a major meltdown, which of course, is inevitable, how can they be acknowledged as brilliant masterminds on a daily basis without someone slipping up!

The poor kids are caught up in it, it's long term conditioning similar to a cult, even the golden child plays second fiddle to the parent with the disorder.

It's sad reading about what you've gone through and that light bulb moment when you accepted there'll never be an apology or the end to the gas-lighting. But you are opening the window to what some families are experiencing. These people are emotionally stunted in toddler years and from what I've witnessed, pretty crazy &%$@ goes down when the 'illusion' is challenged, but once restored, life goes on as if nothing happened!

Could this be CW's childhood, only time will tell, but it sure looks familiar to those in know. jmo

 

[1&2&3]

Will the court session on Monday be streamed? If so, what channel, what time?

I can’t imagine what his mother is going to suffer on Monday. My guess is she will have to be removed from the courtroom due to the loud sobbing and crying.

Monday will be the hardest day of her life. It would be for any mother who hasn’t seen or talked with their adult child since the heinous murders.

 

[BeckyF]

I really wish someone would explain the legal system to his family. Does anyone know who K Almand is? An attorney? Family friend?

IMO their ears are closed to any advice or opinion other than their own.

 

[zea mays]

Will the court session on Monday be streamed? If so, what channel, what time?

I can’t imagine what his mother is going to suffer on Monday. My guess is she will have to be removed from the courtroom due to the loud sobbing and crying.

Monday will be the hardest day of her life. It would be for any mother who hasn’t seen or talked with their adult child since the heinous murders.

I'm certain it will be but no one knows details yet. The judge granted pooled audio, video, and still photography, but no station has announced the plans yet AFAIK. Many stations volunteered to be the pooling for the various methods, so I don't know what they'll work out.

 

[ZsaZsa]

In the email that was sent to the judge, they said she has tried contacting by phone, by email, and by visiting and the defense attorney's have shut them down every time. I do not live in Colorado and so it may be different than my state. Where I live, you can not contact a inmate by phone. They can contact you by collect call. You can not contact them by email because they don't have access to the internet. Prison is a different story. We can visit but only if we are put on a list (prison). County jail, we can visit, if time doesn't run out and the inmate wants to visit. Again, I am not in Colorado and I am sure every system is different. I agree that she knows he did it but she feels it was justified.

In what kind of mind would the killing of 3 children be justified?

 

[LovesChocolate]

Is it possible for lay people to obtain a copy of the autopsy report?

The ladies of MRS have announced as soon as they receive their copy, they are going to read it live.

 

[Jennifer17]

Is it possible for lay people to obtain a copy of the autopsy report?

The ladies of MRS have announced as soon as they receive their copy, they are going to read it live.

And understand none of it.

 

[Serena Angelique]

Thank you Pommy & I genuinely appreciate your support. I think my family story is VERY common. When I took actions to remove myself from my entire family, there was nothing brave about it. I sat in my living room & decided that I would check out in my garage because what else would I do without my family. I had zero identity. I made a decision to give it 6 months & if I didn’t feel better, at least I gave myself a chance. It wasn’t bravery - it was life or death.

I have issues and always will. I had to recognize & address my own NPD and it’s been painful. But my identity isn’t attached to my family anymore. It’s all me now. I don’t know if enmeshed kids ever really figure out who they are but the sooner you get out & stay out - the better chance you have. Oh - and you don’t have to end your existence because your biological family doesn’t approve/love you. As a matter of fact, love and approval aren’t even related.

I’m so sorry Shanann fell in love with this guy from such a horrible family. She deserved the best of everything and so did her girls. Chris probably deserved a a loving wife & family too. If your family is f’ed up - get some help. It should never, ever end this way

Will the court session on Monday be streamed? If so, what channel, what time?

I can’t imagine what his mother is going to suffer on Monday. My guess is she will have to be removed from the courtroom due to the loud sobbing and crying.

Monday will be the hardest day of her life. It would be for any mother who hasn’t seen or talked with their adult child since the heinous murders.

I wish the Watts family would not dare to upstage their son’s victims, but realize that is wishful thinking.

 

[Whiteorchids]

Will the court session on Monday be streamed? If so, what channel, what time?

I can’t imagine what his mother is going to suffer on Monday. My guess is she will have to be removed from the courtroom due to the loud sobbing and crying.

Monday will be the hardest day of her life. It would be for any mother who hasn’t seen or talked with their adult child since the heinous murders.

Im sure most will not agree with me but I feel bad for his Mom too. I have a son same age as Chris. We are very close and I don’t have NPD. Im sure I would be in denial If my son did this as I would want to talk to him as well, get answers and not be shut out left in the dark. Maybe Chris doesn’t want her to visit and hasn’t been told. I’m sure she’s grieving the loss of her Son and what mom wants to believe her son wiped out an entire family? She sounds very desperate and looking for answers from her son. I think many of you who are not walking in her shoes are being quite judgmental. Of course she’s going to blame SW who wants to think the son you love could do this without reason.