GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #60

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Thank you! And thank you to all who replied to my message with some pointers. I almost took a day to go thru the messages and it was REALLY hurting to read them! SW went thru so much in the last 4-5 weeks, truly truly REST IN PEACE beautiful lady especially knowing justice is served to some extent. She could have been bossy, authoritative etc etc but SW didnt deserve the treatment she got in the days leading upto Aug 13th. Communication and transparency was missing and I wish we can go back in time and CW just walks out of the house with zero explanation. IMO, he did what he did so he doesn't have to pay child support. When do people realize that money DOES NOT and CAN NOT buy things that a man needs(forget about wants!).
And to CW's family, who am I to judge? There may be zillion things between CW/SW and his parents that didnt come to light. CW is responsible to do the balancing act and he totally failed at it. SW should have got clues that if her man is not standing up for his parents then one day he will not for her as well. Total utterly failure on CW's part and he is solely responsible one!! NK - the lesser said the better, unbelievable....she did google Amber Frey book deal???

If the parents are behaving poorly the spouse stands up for the other spouse. My husband had to shut his family down early in our marriage. They did not personally dislike me but felt his first obligation should always be to them and when they were told no, I was the villain. They thru a huge fit because he told them he was not going to take his 24 year old sister to a dr appt for a minor issue but stay home with me on my first day at home with our new baby, I had a c-section. His mother was furious, calling me to arrange for someone to stay with me. Crazy. He told them to stop and if they didn’t he was turning our phones off. My husband is a fabulous husband, son and brother and I was most angry that they would put him in that position of having to do that.

Some families have a real messed up way of knowing and showing what 'love' is.

You can see why the term love is socially constructed, with people having their own definition. As in my world, putting your allergic grandchild at risk to get back at their mother is not love and never will be.

I agree, Cindy’s “love” was conditional on things being her way, her getting to call all the shots, she had no idea of what real love and acceptance is.

 

[Gardener1850]

This case has fried my brain. I don't remember if Shanann's parents were in CO for her neck surgery or not. I know that when she was pregnant with CeCe, they moved to Colorado for about 15 months. I don't think inmate Watts' affair with NK started that early, and hoping the next document dump provides us with ALL the text messages from her phone and his. Thank you for all these links! MOO

Thank you, I might be getting the neck surgery confused with her CeCe pregnancy too. I think you might be right that the parents were not there since SW posted on her Facebook thanking 3 of her friends for helping watch her girls while she was in the hospital. I was confused because CW's parents were there in early Aug and I was thinking that was the time when all the parents were in the house together (And Cindy and Ronnie carried the girls upstairs and wouldn't let Sandra And Frank see them). I'm not sure I think CW was having an affair with NK in Aug or Sept 2017 but the timing does make me wonder if he started flirting or asked her out on a date at that time. SW posted her surgery was on a Tuesday (that would have been Aug 29th). I bet CW didn't take those days off work and had to go home at night "to sleep" rather than stay in the hospital with SW as long as possible. If so, he had time to squeeze in a dinner date or a Tinder hook up while SW laid in the hospital and their friends took care of the kids. JMO.

 

[BabyButterfly]

This case has fried my brain. I don't remember if Shanann's parents were in CO for her neck surgery or not. I know that when she was pregnant with CeCe, they moved to Colorado for about 15 months. I don't think inmate Watts' affair with NK started that early, and hoping the next document dump provides us with ALL the text messages from her phone and his. Thank you for all these links! MOO

A friend stayed with her to help out after her neck surgery, if I remember correctly.

 

[mrjitty]

BBM I see it in spades. In the porch interviews and all through his interview with detectives. In fact even in his audacious planning of murder in preference to divorce which will ruin his image. That is thinking one is invincible is it not? A smile playing on his lips, thinking he could deceive everyone, thinking friends were so impressed by him that he could even bring up the topic of selling his house and eat pizza and not have to worry that they would see him as not behaving appropriately. It doesn't come across to me as bravado, but true arrogance.

MOO

Maybe we are at cross purposes.

I agree he is lying and delusional - as sociopaths frequently are.

But he doesn't strike me as a narcissist in the same way as a Pistorius who positively reeks of it

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

She said Shanann told her she called all her friends and they had not received the invitations. Why would they not show up if not because of that? Not one friend out of 50 invitations. Imo

Who does this? It's like reading a Sweet Valley High novel.

I can't wrap my brain around just how many in this case are narcissistic, manipulative, immature. Not just CW. Not just CW's mom.

I don't think I've ever seen anything like it.

Moo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Some families have a real messed up way of knowing and showing what 'love' is.

You can see why the term love is socially constructed, with people having their own definition. As in my world, putting your allergic grandchild at risk to get back at their mother is not love and never will be.

Imo Mother Watts,and Sister Watts seethed with jeolosy,and hatred of Shannan,and Bella,and Cece. They can't stand other females getting attention. Especially from the menfolk in the family. Yes even little toddlers become targets of the covert campaign of sociopaths.

 

[Mitch11]

Mama Watts knowingly and willfully put a child's life, her own granddaughter no less, in danger to spite her daughter-in-law. There is no excuse for that. Inmate Watts even agreed: "l will call him and tell him what I think about this. lt's not *advertiser censored**ing cool at all because it is the kids. I will set this right." Chris Watts’ wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' one week before her murder | Daily Mail Online
MOO

Yes. And it's that behaviour that CW was famous for too. Playing happy families and cuddling his kids. All his supporters came out to say 'but he's a good dad'

Goes to show how low the standard for fatherhood currently is.

Regardless of whether he had killed them (which we know he did but these supporters think he didn't) he failed to call LE and dumped their bodies in oil tanks to decompose.

JMO but that shows he is not a good father.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

So what about his sister putting nuts on the table then, she isn't older generation. She's a mother with young children herself.

Plus a few other things I dare not mention!!

 

[Stripehaven]

a pet peeve for me is wondering why he was telling NK shanann wanted out and it wasn't him trying to move on.
doesn't that imply that he is happy with the status quo and actually enjoys being married to shanann??
been doing my head in over this.

the only conclusion I see to reconcile it is he wanted NK to think a relationship with him wasn't going to be that difficult to achieve. see? look? shanann wants out anyway...its all good.
so stick around it wont be that problematic us being together.

but the reality was shanann was going nowhere....she wasn't giving up on him any time soon much to his irritation.
her fb posts were totally contradictory to what he was feeding NK.

IMO NK via facebook stalkings seen some of these latest uploads of shananns and a very 'EMOTIONAL CONVERSATION' happened between NK and CW to the vibe of she is over his lies and decided to dump him.
that's when he shut his facebook down and decided what he needed to do to make sure NK 's love stayed with him.
eliminate the problem.

moo

I think he was trying (successfully, I guess) to appear like the poor little puppy who was abandoned by his selfish wife. It implies that he is a loyal and loving partner who just happens to be available now because his mean old wife wants out of the marriage. Certainly HE is not contemplating ditching a pregnant wife and two kids. Oh, I just remembered: he was also able to lie and say Nico wasn’t his, making himself even more the victim of his cheating wife.

He’s not the first to pull this BS but he is surely one of the sickest.

 

[PommyMommy]

SEE IT: Chris Watts sent unsettling photo of a doll covered by a sheet to Shannan Watts days before her murder — and his father tried to use photo to claim murdered pregnant mom ‘planned’ killings
Wow.
Just SMH . The lengths these sociopaths have gone to smear,and blame Shannan for everything. It's all coming back to them like spit in the wind.

Oh, the irony.

Pg 1913 (Discovery pg 2108)
Image taken by Watt's phone:



Pg 537 (Discovery pg 604) - "I asked CHRIS what happened after SHANANN was in her bed and he said he pulled the sheets back over SHANANN and covered her up..."

"RONNIE said he was around BELLA and BELLA would only cover her baby dolls up to their stomach. RONNIE said he never saw BELLA cover a doll’s head like it was a body."

 

[Mitch11]

Maybe we are at cross purposes.

I agree he is lying and delusional - as sociopaths frequently are.

But he doesn't strike me as a narcissist in the same way as a Pistorius who positively reeks of it

There's different forms and levels of narcassists. He still without a doubt shows narcissist behaviours:

He was having an affair
If he was having sex with SW he was putting their unborn child at risk of an STD
He was lying
He was sneaking around
He was spending money they didn't have
He was actively choosing to stay up late at nights having such affair, which could impact his ability to do his job the next day
He refused to engage in any conversation SW wanted to sort their marriage out
He was more interested in his t-shirt than his missing wife and kids
He's been more interested in ensuring he comes across as a good guy and people think this about him

And my favourite.. Encouraging her to have another child, but then turning around once pregnant and saying he no longer wants said child.

Everything about him shows he's a subtle covert narcassist

 

[Tortoise]

I missed that part. I saw that she noticed more nuts out accessible in the document but not who put it out there and I wasn't positive if she had not noticed them or if it was just something in the kitchen that wasn't put up and away? I'm not even sure if they were having some kind of ice cream bars with nuts or like had bowls with different toppings?

No, I know I haven't constructed that, I read that sister put a bowl of mixed nuts on the table. I think it must have been in the discovery docs. After that bowls of ice cream with chopped nuts were put out for the sister's children and Cece wanted some.

ETA I see from a subsequent post I got the order of this the wrong way around.

 

[Arose]

Has anyone seen the new mugshot of CW? He looks unrecognisable!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I missed that part. I saw that she noticed more nuts out accessible in the document but not who put it out there and I wasn't positive if she had not noticed them or if it was just something in the kitchen that wasn't put up and away? I'm not even sure if they were having some kind of ice cream bars with nuts or like had bowls with different toppings?

According to the texts Shan’ann went outside to discuss the ice cream incident with Cindy, when she went back in the house Jaime was setting out a bowl of nuts and when questioned said “we always have nuts on the bar”.

 

[gitana1]

I don't see how the daughter putting a bowl of nuts on the table after Shanann showed concern was unintentional. Imo

Especially AFTER a list of foods was given to the grandmother that should not be around the children.

That's no accident. That's intentional. And indeed, its evil.

It's crazy to me that after poor, murdered Shanann was given no quarter by some, was evisecerated based on rumor and gossip and innuendo due to bias and dislike, jealousy, and the whisperings of one who had motive to present her as evil, that NOW, NK and the Watts family are given every benefit of the doubt despite actual evidence that they either helped make poor Shanann's life a living hell before she died or in some way impeded the investigation into her and her children's' disappearance and death.

It just seems like the height of hypocrisy to me.

But since Shanann is dead why does it matter? Because it added untold misery onto Shanann's loved ones and continues to do so.

And because while the guilty plea ends the pretense of honestly debating his possible innocence, the defense of EVERYONE ELSE who destroyed this woman in life or in death, seems to be a very subtle continuation of the same theme of victim bashing. And it seems to me to be motivated by the same intense dislike of the dead woman.

A very large MOO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

They did it because of the situation with the death penalty in CO. Our state is not unlike CO, we had death penalty, then we had moratorium on DP imposed by the governor, and recently, our Supreme Court outlawed it. I assume CO is on the same curve regarding death penalty. Practically, even if all members of the jury voted for it, and even this is questionable, it would have been impossible to impose.

I don’t think it was because of the future of on going litigations and state of the DP. Sandy said even though Chris decided he could take their lives, she did not want to be put in that position of whether someone lives or dies. I think if they had told her he will be dead in a year she still would have said no to the DP.

 

[gitana1]

According to the texts Shan’ann went outside to discuss the ice cream incident with Cindy, when she went back in the house Jaime was setting out a bowl of nuts and when questioned said “we always have nuts on the bar”.

Nice folk.

Man.

 

[gitana1]

They did it because of the situation with the death penalty in CO. Our state is not unlike CO, we had death penalty, then we had moratorium on DP imposed by the governor, and recently, our Supreme Court outlawed it. I assume CO is on the same curve regarding death penalty. Practically, even if all members of the jury voted for it, and even this is questionable, it would have been impossible to impose.

No. They stated an opposition to the death penalty early on. It was in an FB message and also alluded to at te funeral, IIRC.

 

[The Farm]

If the parents are behaving poorly the spouse stands up for the other spouse. My husband had to shut his family down early in our marriage. They did not personally dislike me but felt his first obligation should always be to them and when they were told no, I was the villain. They thru a huge fit because he told them he was not going to take his 24 year old sister to a dr appt for a minor issue but stay home with me on my first day at home with our new baby, I had a c-section. His mother was furious, calling me to arrange for someone to stay with me. Crazy. He told them to stop and if they didn’t he was turning our phones off. My husband is a fabulous husband, son and brother and I was most angry that they would put him in that position of having to do that.

I agree, Cindy’s “love” was conditional on things being her way, her getting to call all the shots, she had no idea of what real love and acceptance is.

Hey everyone!

To the post above I had a mother-in-law like that in some respects, she was sweet, kind and nice but thought her son should put her before his wife. Needless to say it caused a lot of crap between us because he just could never say no to his mother or if she said or did something he could never say hey look Mom I am married now or set her straight in any shape or form. Me on the other hand am the total opposite. He was the baby of three in the family and a 7 year difference between his middle brother and him and she just wanted to hold on as long as she could.
On the other hand she loved ALL her grandchildren unconditionally!

 

[gitana1]

I don’t think it was because of the future of on going litigations and state of the DP. Sandy said even though Chris decided he could take their lives, she did not want to be put in that position of whether someone lives or dies. I think if they had told her he will be dead in a year she still would have said no to the DP.

Right. The state of the death penalty in CO wasn't what affected the Rzucek family. It did affect Rourke though and his belief that the plea deal was a form of justice.