GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[margarita25]

Well I have not finished all the interviews yet but I'm not yet convinced that CW took the girls to the oil site in the truck alive. For one thing, the detective was the first to say "Were they still alive?" and CW says yes so quietly I can't hear (perhaps he was nodding his head?). He starts talking in his halting fake crying soft voice. And partial sentences. I think he didn't have a convincing story planned for why and how he killed the girls. They had to pepper him with leading questions and drag the story out of him. I think he only agreed about the girls being alive after he put SW in the truck because he thought that was what the detectives wanted to hear (they suggested it after all just as they suggested to him SW might have killed the girls first). They offered CW a temporary reprieve from telling when and where and how he murdered the babies and he took it IMHO.

In fact, I've never thought the girls were killed first but so far this interview has stunningly convinced me that they were already dead before SW was strangled to death in her sleep. IMO he has denied every shred of anything that can be remotely construed as planning-- even things that are obvious lies. He lies precisely because he planned this, he thought about it, he dreamed about it and then he did it. Then he had to lie about what happened with the girls because what's more evil than murdering your children because they witnessed you murder mommy? Murdering them before you murder their mommy. In cold blood. With no provocation at all. Because murdering them all was his plan all along. If there is anything that CW has had time to figure out by talking to others in prison and reading the news it's that there is really no good explanation for why he murdered his innocent toddlers. I think that is why he started his fake crying and saying he didn't want to talk about it-- because he knew he would look monstrous no matter what story he told. He can blame SW and say she provoked him all he wants but he knew that wouldn't fly when it came to murdering the children.

I think he was ready to grasp at whatever explanation the detectives gave. 6 months from now they should do another interview and say, "Now Chris we know the girls were dead first." "Will you tell us what really happened?" Just to see what he says. He will probably deny it and sputter another tale out if lead again. If one were to suggest that maybe SW made him angry when she said her flight was delayed and ask if he murdered the girls to get revenge on her (so she will never see them again) he will probably agree to THAT scenario next time. Because I'm convinced CW wants to say whatever will get him out of the hot seat. He will say what he thinks they want to hear him say-- as long as it doesn't involve him admitting to being the inhuman monster everyone knows him to be. As long as it doesn't involve him actually taking the blame for his actions. He blames everyone else for what happened. Things don't happen because of him. Things are always happening to him. And he's just a hapless fool who doesn't know why he would climb on top of his pregnant wife in bed to have a 30 minute conversation (when she supposedly said he was hurting the baby). He just did it. He doesn't know why he couldn't stop strangling her from 2-4 minutes, he just did it. Just a powerless fool. Yeah, right.

MOO.

I’m absolutely convinced that the opposite is true, and they were alive.

The detail was too specific to be a lie, to include:

Bella’s comment about the smell of Shanann’s body.

The interactions between CW and the kids.

Bella unbuckling her seatbelt.

There was more than that, but that’s what I remember.

If he was going to lie about this, it would be something self serving.

This wasn’t.

It was as detailed as it was horrific, and I totally buy it.

(You guys are still going at it, eh? )

 

[Thunderdog]

OK, just finished it. Can I go to dinner with Coder, Lee, and Baumhover? Or at least be the fly on the wall?

I want to hug Tammy & Graham

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I’m absolutely convinced that the opposite is true, and they were alive.

The detail was too specific to be a lie, to include:

Bella’s comment about the smell of Shanann’s body.

The interactions between CW and the kids.

Bella unbuckling her seatbelt.

There was more than that, but that’s what I remember.

If he was going to lie about this, it would be something self serving.

This wasn’t.

It was as detailed as it was horrific, and I totally buy it.

Agree, too many details, far beyond what he is capable of constructing.
Bella “ please don’t take her away” referring to CeCe.
When asked what they could have done to get him too tell the truth he said if they had lied and told him they saw the girls in the truck he would have told them the truth.

 

[violet101]

Were these videos of NK talking about being bipolar ever released? That was first I heard but not sure if I just missed them.

 

[ab01]

half way break.....need to pause and make a really stiff drink. The joy and emotion in his voice as he talks about his own life experiences is just hard for me to take!

 

[TxMother67]

Ha ha!!



Hmm. That's an interesting take. It could be very true.

Earlier I theorized a lot about possible, simmering rage and resentment that could've come from not having a fully formed identity, just going through the motions and living someone else's life, doing what was expected but not what he truly desired, which he could not know as he kind of didn't fully exist.

I mean you have to have an identity to really know what you want and to pick the life you want to live.

In no way do I think this cat was truly enraged or on some sort of rampage when he did this.

But I do think he dug deep down for some simmering resentment and deep anger and dissastifaction.

It was interesting when the investigators asked him if he was angry at Shanann and why. He said he was motivated by rage but he couldn't articulate why. He couldn't point to anything real that she actually did to him to upset him. I mean he also said that he killed his kids out of anger but could not explain it. Which maybe makes sense.

I think he may have felt some slight anger or really tried hard at least to drum some up. But he probably mostly felt adrenaline and excitement as he killed his wife as well. I believe him that he was shaking afterward. I don't think a pure and classic psychopath would have been.

But he calmed right back down like a snake on a rock after that and quietly and methodically loaded his car.

His anger at his parents - that's an interesting theory. Others have said the same thing. And it makes sense.

I feel he was likely annihilated by a narcissist. His description of his mother always asking him how he feels but he never expressed anything? That flat effect around one's parents is common for children of borderlines and narcissists because they can't make the wrong move and any expression of individual needs or feelings is met with annihilating rage or consumption. (Those I know who've been through this said they cannot let their parents in at all or ever tell them about their lives because the parents will use whatever they tell them).

He describes his mother as loving but she's shown herself to be anything but- ruining Shanann's bridal shower, not going to the wedding, bad mouthing her, risking her geandchildren's lives with nuts, saying savage things about her murdered daughter in law despite the utter agony it would cause Shanann's family. Making her victim statement all about showing how great her son and her family is and how she is a victim. Making it all about appearance and about her.

She's shown her character in so many ways.

So I think he's leaving a lot out. What he's described of his father and what we've heard from that man likewise shows a dysfunctional person of questionable character to me. He became a coke addict because his son got married and moved? Wth? And he continues to throw his murdered daughter in law under the bus refusing to accept reality?

What was it like being raised by them?

I recall this photo I saw of the family when Chris was little. It was in a YouTube movie about the crimes and flashed quickly on the screen. I rewinded and froze it.

Chris' sister appears much older than he. Chris was quite young. About 8-10. His father wasn't smiling much. Sort of stone faced. His mother and sister had almost identical expressions. Kind of smug, half smiles.

Then there was Chris. The little boy had a super wide and sweet smile. He was the nicest thing in the photo. The very picture of affability, innocence and niceness.

A very good boy.

I think like Scott Peterson he had to play a role in that family. He couldn't express emotion. He couldn't develop a personality.

And maybe indeed he had a simmering anger toward them as well.

It's all so horrible yet interesting to ponder.

Amazing post!

 

[skyedaze]

Chris Watts Has Photos of Slain Wife and 2 Daughters in Prison Cell: 'Talks to Them' Every Day
While incarcerated in Colorado before being transferred to Wisconsin, Watts said he was taunted by the other inmates, who “would yell at him at night and would explain to him all the ways he could kill himself in his cell by drowning himself in the toilet or hanging himself.” He said “he didn’t kill himself because he felt like he may have a different purpose.”
He said he prayed to be transferred to a different facility, and when he was, it “felt like God moved him to [the prison] for a reason.”
Watts told police he “tries to keep a ‘low profile’ in the prison.” BBM



Enlighten us, Chris.

Prison will be where he finally meets his maker. And I seriously doubt he will be greeted at pearly gates. I hope he has to beg for his life like Bella had to beg for hers.

Can I just say...kudos to the other inmates and their suggestion to CW. Even to them he's a .

 

[gitana1]

Is there a way to embed this in the thread?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154435896716935

Aww. Oh no. They're so precious. Bella is such a sensitive and loving little girl. I hope they're together with mama and Nico, cuddling together.

 

[nwmouse]

Well, I was mistaken in thinking CW wanted to come clean because he couldn't live with his disgusting self and that this interview would be his swan-song.

Far from it. He's morphed into yet another "self" called "Convict Chris Has Found Jesus".

In his twisted head he thinks that because he reads the bible all his sins have been forgiven -- he's a delusional moron.

I think he did this interview because he loves to talk about his favorite subject: HIMSELF, and how awesome "Nikki" is and how controlling Shanann was. Narcissistic sicko, still refusing to take responsibility for murdering his family.

When he was asked if the girls were still alive when he crammed them into the oil tanks there was a moment's pause before he mumbled "no". The way he spoke about the details of the toddlers' murder was coldly evil and matter of fact. He pretended to sob, but if any crocodile tears were squeezed out, it was only for himself being caught.

I don't know how CW can live with himself, but apparently he's forgiven himself (which was easy because he felt zero remorse), and believes he was goaded into his actions by a controlling wife.

He had the nerve to say that Shanann didn't fight back as he murdered her because she was praying to God to forgive him. HE IS NUTS! Who on earth would even think and say such a ridiculous thing?

Edited to add: CW learned to lie from an early age. On Page 27 of the CBI report he says:
"He has always had a “crazy imagination,” ever since he was a little kid. He convinced his teacher in grade school that he went to Japan or China over the summer, which was not true. He wrote a whole story about it and his teacher believed him."

SMH.

 

[gitana1]

When he was talking about his long ride to the Plant when asked what he was thinking .. He says "Couldn't I have ..like saved my girls life"? huh?
He is thinking this before killing them. ?? flipping weirdo.

He is. They didn't need SAVING! They just didn't need KILLING!

He's insane! He acts like they were on a sinking boat and if he had just tried hard enough he could've saved their lives.

I mean I guess that's accurate if you consider that the car ride was the sinking boat and he couldn't save them from himself.

It's just so bizarre how he phrased it. Dude. YOU were the threat. YOU were the danger. YOU were the risk to their lives.

Someone else needed to save them from YOU, murderer.

Geez.

 

[gitana1]

I saw a YT video from a therapist who surmised that his week visit to NC was his test to see if he wanted his family, if he still had emotions for them. Another analogy is like he is a baby that lacks object permanence - out of sight, out of mind while they were gone and the visit did not rekindle any attachments to them. He was like this when with his parents when he moved to Colorado.

Whoa.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’m absolutely convinced that the opposite is true, and they were alive.

The detail was too specific to be a lie, to include:

Bella’s comment about the smell of Shanann’s body.

The interactions between CW and the kids.

Bella unbuckling her seatbelt.

There was more than that, but that’s what I remember.

If he was going to lie about this, it would be something self serving.

This wasn’t.

It was as detailed as it was horrific, and I totally buy it.

Thanks MassGuy, I expected you to disagree. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get to that part (I'm assuming it is part 4 or 5) but he so far what I have heard he didn't give much detail, that scenario was suggested to him first, and then he went to lunch for macaroni and cheese and lots of milk and came back to interview more. He had plenty of time to think up details, like the seatbelts, over his mac 'n cheese. At the point I have reached they already asked if he put the girls in the truck in carseats and he said no carseats. So saying Bella unbuckled her seatbelt is not a hard lie to think up. He probably noticed the bad smell himself after 45 minutes for driving. And if I understand the summaries I've read, he did not explain why he put the girls in the oil tanks or why he put them in separate oil tanks. Or did he explain that part? Did he recount again the sounds the girls made when they hit the oil as he did in his first lying interview? That was a gruesome detail that sounded true but I have not heard if it was repeated in this new telling. One would expect some parts of the story to be the same on repeated tellings if it was the truth.

MOO.

 

[ZsaZsa]

He took pleasure in throwing NK’s *advertiser censored* under the bus and ran her over a few times!! I knew she was a strange bird..

I wonder if they told him she left town and went into hiding?

 

[MyBelle]

Lot of thoughts. Not many words though. Some truth, some omissions, some lies IMO. My heart hurts hearing it and head hurts trying to sort it out. Only know 1) He’s missing something that makes the rest of us human. 2). we’ll never know if we know the real truth.

No, we won't and that's a big part of Watts' mind games. I think his latest interview is designed to cause more pain to those who loved SW and the girls. The massive media coverage gives him the satisfaction of knowing his mission is accomplished.

I think embellishing and still blaming SW is a form of sadistic manipulation and he'll keep doing it as long as he is enabled. I'm surprised LE wasted the resources to give him the attention he clearly craves.

JMO

 

[gitana1]

I don't believe he gave any thought into Bellas death over Cece. He had just pulled SWs body out the door and I think Cece was sitting next to the truck door so she went first.

As for his comments on strangling SW.. He's holding back a lot of information. I don't think he can go there in his head regarding what he did. As that will unmask him. All through this interview he's able to play the good guy (eg he confessed, he plead guilty to spare everyone) and play the 'I was overtaken by rage' card.

I question the level of premeditation in this. I still believe it was premeditated (or at least fantastised about) and he used sex to lure her at some point nto that bed and to help relax and disarm her (eg stop her questioning him about their marriage given they weren't sleeping in the same bed for weeks etc). With her disarmed he could murder her that night. You also don't talk straddled over someone for 20 minutes then fly into a rage?

I also think he had previously thought about dumping the girls in oil tanks. You don't just spontaneously rock up to an oil site with your dead wife and murder your kids, then instantly know to take them up to oil tanks and dump them? Natural thing to me would be to dig a bigger hole and bury them together.

As for his mental state, I do believe he felt intense rage and hatred. That's usually the case with family annihilators. It would be years of pent up rage. What I'm not buying is his line that he felt rage towards anyone in his path that morning (eg the girls) . Doesn't explain why he didn't kill himself given his claims to care about hurting or killing other people when he was raging towards anyone in his way??

He is incredibly narcasstic..insanely so. Mr good guy. I'm not buying any of his crying and stuff. If the report on his IQ is correct than that is an important factor in this case. Most criminals are lower functioning and it shows. People with higher intellectual functioning have greater ability to manipulate emotions and speech etc to say what others want to hear. They can be dangerous.

I believe a lot of what he is saying regarding the story.. Particularly the bits where he is coherent and can elaborate with ease. He has issues when asked about the actual crimes (typical for offenders) and deflects quite often, part of that will be because if he goes there his mask comes undone.

Those poor poor girls.. Especially wee Bella.. He would have been crazy driving out there too like a raging maniac. They would have been terrified beyond belief. I'm 99% certain he said yes when she asked if the same thing would happen to her. Sick .

Yup. Because he said he didn't remember how he responded to her. But IIRC he hesistated when saying that.

Poor little girl. Just the shocking horror of it.

 

[skyedaze]

I think some of the traits we look for such as drug/alcohol abuse, history of manipulative behavior, criminal behavior, etc., did not manifest in Chris himself but by his own account, he lived these parts through those he was surrounded by.

I think CW was basically a late bloomer, behind the scenes/sidelines guy. His friends and thoughts were determined by Mommy, until SW, CW's first serious girlfriend, happened -- and we know how that went over in the family.

There was very little room for CW to develop, because Sister demanded both all the attention and air in the room! Dad Ronnie was the smoker, coke head, and spend thrift--all because golden CW left his Daddy home alone with vile Mommy and Sister. (Wow, look how powerful I am).

CW proclaimed that he never knew how to be "himself" with SW, but I think that was partly because CW had no idea who he was until recently! If not himself, I believe CW was finally allowed to mature with SW -- no more Cindy purchased skater boy clothes and hair gel. It also appeared CW advanced and/or improved career wise, socially, and physically with SW's nurturing. CW also became a father with SW -- something he allegedly wanted to be his entire life.

And yet we learned today that over one summer month without the presence of SW and his children, CW believed that he found that he was finally able to "be himself" with NK. Was being "himself" now defined as a lying, manipulating, sex crazed lover of a bipolar interloper? It seems to me these traits are more complimentary to a family annihilator. MOO

Yeah. He was late bloomer...hadn't finished maturing into the vle piece of cr@p that he is. And the "be himself"...well he basically just told the world, "hey people... this person who did all of this...THIS IS WHO I AM!."

 

[gitana1]

Right as if he was thinking their was no way he could have his new life with the girls alive.

Also, it may have been discussed, Why does he say he strangled CeeCee?

I think because he described grabbing her throat with one hand and smothering her nose and mouth with the other. So he kind of did both.

 

[skyedaze]

I think I'm done with this, hopefully for a wonderful weekend hiking and photographing wildflowers.
Whether or not we hear any more truths/lies, one thing came out of this.
Not one single level headed person in the world is now thinking SW killed her kids, and that's the one thing we all wanted since August.
The FB/YT trolls will just keep on going, along with their ringleaders hoping to monetize their garbage.

Are we sure about that? What does his mother say now?

 

[Gardener1850]

(You guys are still going at it, eh? )

Lol! I'm not going to be at it long, I promise. I lost my internet for 2 days last time and there are winter storm warnings tonight where I live. Apparently arguing with MassGuy is bad mojo.

 

[gitana1]

The individual in my immediate circle is a mix of things. She has 'shame' in the sense that as a true Narcissist, she cannot fail, be imperfect, or not be the false image of herself in her own disordered mind, so it's more a sense of humiliation at being under scrutiny, or getting caught, that she later expresses in vindictive rage at whoever threatens exposure of her, if even by simply seeing into her. She can appear thick as a plank, confused, clueless, and innocently unaware of what's going on around her. She lies so smoothly that it's difficult to tell where the transition from truth to lie/lie to truth is. She can seem friendly and unassuming and perfectly 'normal', even when lying to law enforcement. But there's always something off. And she is chillingly cruel, often with a smile on her face. So she's also psychopathic.

Her story telling is toddler-like. Lots of rambling and inconsequential details, then very little about the big event, then back to filler details and distractions to tie up her story, which ends like a book a child would write. No emotion throughout this farce.

I don't believe that CW had a conversation with SW. I think he killed her from behind because that was the easiest way. I'm not totally caught up, so is there evidence that the children were killed in the truck, or could they have been killed at home? He may be intentionally creating distance between the murder of SW and the kids. Based on my witness of how these people lie, there is always distance in time and geography in elements of their storytelling, often to manage 'shame', portions of the crime they hope to cover from the view of LE, or to bait and switch so they remain in control of the story. They always keep a few cards to play later if they need them.

The evidence for me that he killed them at the site was when asked what the investigators could've said to get him to tell the truth back then, he said "If you would've lied and told me you saw the girls on video, leaving in my truck." His voice didn't have lying tells when he said that.