GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[NuttMegg]

I haven't read the book but based on what I've heard I'm going to guess one or more of the following:

• It is poorly written.

• She's getting bad reviews.

• The book includes Shanann bashing.

• CW's story doesn't add up (see example below).

You cannot continue arguing if the argument hasn't started yet.

“I went to the girls’ room first, before Shanann and I had our argument,” he wrote to Cadle.

“I went to Bella’s room, then Cece’s room and used a pillow from their bed,” Watts wrote.

He then went back to bed and continued arguing with his wife before strangling her.

Do I win a prize or no? Why was the page taken down? MOO

Just from listening around to various sites, I don't see much new or any big revelations aside from what has been leaked for the last couple of weeks. Sounds like he told the author a lot of inconsistencies, and here he is claiming to be forgiven and saved.

 

[MsBetsy]

I haven't read the book but based on what I've heard I'm going to guess one or more of the following:

• It is poorly written.

• She's getting bad reviews.

• The book includes Shanann bashing.

• CW's story doesn't add up (see example below).

You cannot continue arguing if the argument hasn't started yet.

“I went to the girls’ room first, before Shanann and I had our argument,” he wrote to Cadle.

“I went to Bella’s room, then Cece’s room and used a pillow from their bed,” Watts wrote.

He then went back to bed and continued arguing with his wife before strangling her.

Do I win a prize or no? Why was the page taken down? MOO

One also cannot murder someone twice. His story does not add up. The girls did not have bruises on their bodies like he described. He claims, "that's why the cause of death was smothering." (because he smothered them first with a pillow) the autopsy indicates they were smothered anyway. It does not show that they were smothered twice. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Just from listening around to various sites, I don't see much new or any big revelations aside from what has been leaked for the last couple of weeks. Sounds like he told the author a lot of inconsistencies, and here he is claiming to be forgiven and saved.

It seems like each time he tells a different version of the story the details get worse and worse.
He went from denying he killed the girls and blaming it on Shannon to making himself sound like an even bigger monster with every new description.
As if it wasn't bad enough that the girls rode, terrified, with their feet resting on their mothers body, to the site of their murder, Bella saying, no, Daddy, don't do to me what you did to Cece.

Now his story is that he murdered them twice, and Shannon looked at him, her eyes bleeding, while he strangled her.

I'm not sure what else he can say to make it any worse.

All he is doing is digging the knife deeper and torturing the family even more.

If there is anything he should be saying, it does not include sharing details of the murder.

It should be expressing his shame, sorrow and regret for what he has done, and how sorry he is for all the pain he has caused.

Imo

 

[human]

It seems like each time he tells a different version of the story the details get worse and worse.
He went from denying he killed the girls and blaming it on Shannon to making himself sound like an even bigger monster with every new description.
As if it wasn't bad enough that the girls rode, terrified, with their feet resting on their mothers body, to the site of their murder, Bella saying, no, Daddy, don't do to me what you did to Cece.

Now his story is that he murdered them twice, and Shannon looked at him, her eyes bleeding, while he strangled her.

I'm not sure what else he can say to make it any worse.

All he is doing is digging the knife deeper and torturing the family even more.

If there is anything he should be saying, it does not include sharing details of the murder.

It should be expressing his shame, sorrow and regret for what he has done, and how sorry he is for all the pain he has caused.

Imo

Maybe he is angling for a movie about him. Maybe he thinks the worse he is the more someone will want to do his story

 

[Poedelini]

Well, it won't play but I did see she said something about water and Gatorade. She was probably dehydrated from vomiting.
My point was that if she felt she had been drugged I think she would have taken it seriously.
There is no evidence that she had been drugged in order to induce a miscarriage.
Watts is probably just seeking attention. What does he expect to accomplish besides getting attention from an author writing a book about him? The case is over. It will never be reopened. His only objective is to somehow benefit himself. He is a narcissistic psychopath, and not even worthy of negative attention.

Imo

My point still is somebody who thinks she is in good presence with good trust won't ever suspect she being drugged.
The fact in the texts is that she could be drugged that night by Chris.
And before he stated all that in the book there was some evidence in the discovery him searching for Oxycodone 80 mg.

Offcourse there is a change where he is seeking attention and he did not do it. But there is a plausible cause here. I think more than dehydration that night.
And Chris was oh so nice suddenly that night giving her a back rub and stuff.

 

[Nikynoo]

I haven't read the book but based on what I've heard I'm going to guess one or more of the following:

• It is poorly written.

• She's getting bad reviews.

• The book includes Shanann bashing.

• CW's story doesn't add up (see example below).

You cannot continue arguing if the argument hasn't started yet.

“I went to the girls’ room first, before Shanann and I had our argument,” he wrote to Cadle.

“I went to Bella’s room, then Cece’s room and used a pillow from their bed,” Watts wrote.

He then went back to bed and continued arguing with his wife before strangling her.

Do I win a prize or no? Why was the page taken down? MOO

@PommyMommy , I watched an interview with the author (with the criminal defence attorney). She seemed anti CW (and the Watts family) and pretty pro SW. I get the impression that she has relied heavily on the letters and not researched to back them up. I suspect the letter that has been touted to promote the book is not actually included in the book as there are several claims contained in it that are not true and she acknowledged that. I would be interested to see more letters - but my take is that he is goading someone (anyone) to end his life. This is all IMO.

 

[Nikynoo]

It seems like each time he tells a different version of the story the details get worse and worse.
He went from denying he killed the girls and blaming it on Shannon to making himself sound like an even bigger monster with every new description.
As if it wasn't bad enough that the girls rode, terrified, with their feet resting on their mothers body, to the site of their murder, Bella saying, no, Daddy, don't do to me what you did to Cece.

Now his story is that he murdered them twice, and Shannon looked at him, her eyes bleeding, while he strangled her.

I'm not sure what else he can say to make it any worse.

All he is doing is digging the knife deeper and torturing the family even more.

If there is anything he should be saying, it does not include sharing details of the murder.

It should be expressing his shame, sorrow and regret for what he has done, and how sorry he is for all the pain he has caused.

Imo

I think he wants someone to kill him - he is inciting (evenmore) hatred against himself for a reason.

 

[NoClouseau]

I think he wants someone to kill him - he is inciting (evenmore) hatred against himself for a reason.

I think that's the last thing he wants. He's only comfortable murdering babies / small children and a pregnant exhausted woman. He would soil himself if faced with a male aggressor. IMO

 

[Colorado303]

Respectfully I actually disagree with a lot of what you've said here. I do agree he was symbolically killing his mother. I said early on I felt she annihilated his identity and due to the deep enmeshment of his family of origin, he didn't see his kids and wife as separate from himself (which, having an apparently narcissistic mother, means her) so he annihilated his family (and thereby annhilated his non-existent self and his mother).

But I very much disagree with most of the balance. Shanann could not have prevented the murder. There was no working on the marriage or herself as a means to prevent that psychopath from killing her and her girls.

His "mousiness" was not within her control. And if he was unhappy it was up to him to speak up, not up to her to know something was wrong and change herself.

I see nothing much wrong with Shanann. Of course not perfect but she didn't seem controlling to me. She had a strong personality and filled the void his annihilated soul created. Which is why he picked her. He had no identity so he liked women who had strong ones.

But no one could ever really make up for what he lacked.

Regardless, he didn't exhibit psychopathic behaviors, IMO. In fact that was discussed on here by one of our psych experts.

He exhibited nothing much until he annihilated his family.

But Shanann very much knew their marriage was in trouble. She discussed that a lot in text messages and other correspondence.

So? That couldn't have saved her and her kids' lives because no one can keep a marriage at a fever pitch at all times and someone like CW with an annihilated soul likely went through life feeling a lot of nothingness. So he would be prone to equating the heady excitement of a new sexual relationship with love and life. It would've obsessed him. Because it caused him to feel something. Something strong admidst years of gray blandness.

His marriage could've been perfect and never could have competed with that because no marriage can ever sustain that level of excitement. So he was obsessed.

And then, NK wanted a man who didn't have kids or baggage.

So even if Shanann had left him, he was still going to kill his wife and kids, IMO. Because NK was pressuring him not to have a family, as inexplicable as that is.

I believe it would have been impossible for Shanann to realize the danger he posed or signs that something that dark was within him, because the very thing about these types of family annihilators that is so insanely shocking to everyone is that: There. Are. No. Signs.

There are millions of quiet, unhappy men who let their wives run their lives, who sit in the shadows and don't express themselves and pretty much none of them do what CW did.

Most family annihilators in general have a history of mental illness or criminal records/domestic abuse histories. What sets apart a man like CW is there are no signs. There's nothing that could remotely have warned anyone who knew him, including his wife, that there was something that dangerous within him.

They're masters of the mask.

I believe this line of thinking (that had she just been more sensitive and self-reflective she would possibly be alive) comes from fear. She wasn't sensitive and self-reflective. She wasn't a good wife. So she got killed. But I'm sensitive and self-reflective.
I'm a good wife. So this won't happen to me.

Meh. I believe this can happen to anyone. It's rare but when it occurs it comes out of the blue and cannot typically be predicted nor stopped. Maybe a random sixth sense might help someone now and then but the inexplicable doesn't lend itself to protective measures.

The value of learning about these people is about solving crime. Based on studies this is too complex and the signs are too vague and too common to help prevent a family from being annihilated by this particular kind of family annihilator.

Perfectly said! I couldn’t agree with you more.

The fact for almost all of us is if we looked hard enough at our own relationships we would see the “warning signs” some say SW could and/or should have seen. Frankly lots of us would probably see more “signs” than CW exhibited to his wife. Yet most of us are thankfully in normal, basically healthy relationships. And the vast majority of the ones who aren’t will simply get a divorce.

I think it’s easy for everyone who didn’t know SW and CW to believe there had to be something different, something worse, something telling about how he behaved. Or what he said. Something if you looked close enough into their lives or into his eyes you could see. But those of us who knew them are painfully aware that there wasn’t ANYTHING that indicated he was this sick. This evil. This different than other people we know or the loved ones in our own lives.

I know for a bit many of us wondered if we should be creeped out or frightened by things happening in our own homes. A spouse wants to get life insurance policies. A sibling starts watching true crime tv. A teenager gets moody and silent. We’d mostly joke about it, but deep inside we wondered. We got over it though, realizing if you look hard enough anyone might seem like a threat. Yet almost no-one actually is.

It’s comforting to think that CW was hollow, empty and dangerous from the get go. And maybe he was. Maybe he was just a tremendous actor. But IMO he found genuine joy in his girls and loved them and his wife as much as some people can love, and more than some others. Until he didn’t.

We can read 100 books about him and still may not know why he instead of one of the 1000’s of other unfaithful, unhappy spouses, was the one who callously harmed his family in such an unthinkable heinous way.

What I’d really like to know is if there was ever a time when he honestly believed he could never hurt his wife and babies. Like a “normal” person. Or if he aways knew he had this in him. If I had to bet, I’d say he would have found it unthinkable. Until it wasn’t.

 

[Colorado303]

Seems to me that the Watts family (and/or whomever supplied him with the Oxy, assuming they are not one in the same) realized CW telling the author that he would take this secret to his grave could ignite a legal investigation to be opened to find out who supplied it (if not at the very least public speculation) and convinced CW to fall back on what he knows best - lying - to say it came from home after all. Damage control, absolutely. No way he would have said he would take the secret to the grave if it just came from home. I think in his mind when he said that to the author he thought he was sending a message to whomever supplied it that the secret was safe with him - not realizing the fallout - publicly and potentially legally - it would create. Sounds to me like the Watts family were the most concerned....hmmmm...

IMO, of course.

ETA: Then again, if he gave it to her his first night in NC - I do not see how he could have obtained it from his family - seems more likely to have been from someone back in CO - I thought perhaps NK or a coworker who might have thought it was for recreational use? Just thinking aloud.

Or he was complaining of back pain and said he didn’t have time to go to the doctor ....

 

[PommyMommy]

Maybe he is angling for a movie about him. Maybe he thinks the worse he is the more someone will want to do his story

That's already happening.

AUG 22, 2019
'The Chris Watts Story': Lifetime Channel Plans Movie About Murders Of Shanann, Bella And Celeste Watts
“Lifetime has greenlit the new movie, The Chris Watts Story [working title], revealing the months that led up to the horrific crime and piecing together the mysterious motives that made this doting father turn into a cold-blooded killer,” the network website states.

 

[ilovewings]

This is so horrid.
A **** monster disposing of these beautiful girls.
How is it possible, that he exits, among humans?
Hope reliving his actions, causes him to 'disappear'.
MOO.

Frankly this is more information than I need to know: i wish people would stop publicizing every word that comes out of his filthy murderous sociopathic mouth.
I am overdosing on this monster -----

 

[Nikynoo]

I think that's the last thing he wants. He's only comfortable murdering babies / small children and a pregnant exhausted woman. He would soil himself if faced with a male aggressor. IMO

If that was the case, then surely he wouldn't give any indication of what he supposedly did. My point is, some of his claims are plainly untrue and he knows it. You wouldn't embellish something that was already bad, by making it worse. Does not make sense to me. IMO.

 

[ray9898]

Just wanted to add there was also a white over the counter bottle in the bin. Prescriptions intended for consumers are never in those white bottles sent from the drug companies to the pharmacies. Prescriptions for consumers here in the US are in clear orange prescriptions bottles with labels.
So zero evidence there was Oxy in that bin.

2 out of my 3 prescriptions right now are in white bottles.

 

[ray9898]

Which night was she very sick?
How does that imply she was taking oxycodone? There was no mention of her taking any medication in the investigation and it was not in her system when she was murdered.
Just because CW researched it does not mean that he gave it to her. If he did, she would have become very ill and would have seen a doctor, I would think. She would have noticed the effects of the drug.
There is no evidence of her ever doing so. Imo

Yup....no way around it. The euphoric intoxicating effects of an opiate cannot go unnoticed.

 

[NoClouseau]

If that was the case, then surely he wouldn't give any indication of what he supposedly did. My point is, some of his claims are plainly untrue and he knows it. You wouldn't embellish something that was already bad, by making it worse. Does not make sense to me. IMO.

Maybe he feels completely safe with the security around him. I wouldn't try to make sense of anything he says.

 

[NuttMegg]

8:08 (Scott Reisch) I mean parents have a job in life and that is to protect their children, I don’t care whether it’s us humans or anywhere in nature, but what do the parents or the mother always does is they protect their children throughout life and for a parent to actually do that, I think it makes just people, it shocks the conscience is what it really does…..

8:31 (Cadle) Right, it was interesting to me one time he made the comment to me that he had read and learned that parents just don’t kill children, their children, and of course we know it happens, but it was interesting that he had to look that up, he had to read about that without knowing his instinct should have been there to not to kill his children

…………..

9:49 (Cadle) he may be book smart, I don’t doubt that because I will tell you he has extreme recall of things that he reads, I have never heard anyone quote the bible like the guy does, he can quote scripture after scripture it…..amazing, anything that he reads..

10:18 (Cadle) but he doesn’t have common sense and what really struck me about his social skills is I think he was so controlled his whole life and I’m not talking Shannan, I’m talking before that his thoughts were controlled or at least were tried, they tried to control his thoughts to the point that he has leaned upon someone all of his life to tell him what to do, what to do next, and what decision to make, so if that’s common sense I don’t know.

1053: (Scott R) Well he’s definitely gonna get that in prison……continued

 

[NuttMegg]

I think he wants someone to kill him - he is inciting (evenmore) hatred against himself for a reason.

Some people think the opposite, that he is trying very hard to stay in protective custody for a long time instead of being exposed in general population. I did hear a joke about his thinking about working in the kitchen...that may be the worst of work stations for him - better the library.

 

[MsBetsy]

My point still is somebody who thinks she is in good presence with good trust won't ever suspect she being drugged.
The fact in the texts is that she could be drugged that night by Chris.
And before he stated all that in the book there was some evidence in the discovery him searching for Oxycodone 80 mg.

Offcourse there is a change where he is seeking attention and he did not do it. But there is a plausible cause here. I think more than dehydration that night.
And Chris was oh so nice suddenly that night giving her a back rub and stuff.

Yes, I don't doubt that he researched it and considered it.
He was nice to her before the murder because he needed her to believe things were ok and she would be unsuspecting so his plans would go smoothly.

If he had drugged her anytime before that he would risk her finding out, as well as her family. She may have taken the girls and left him and he would lose his opportunity.
Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Yup....no way around it. The euphoric intoxicating effects of an opiate cannot go unnoticed.

Yeah, you can't just feel that way from being happy or pregnant. She would have known something was not right. That would be the first thing she would notice long before an upset stomach and vomiting or passing out.
She would likely drift off to sleep thinking, 'I've never felt so good in my entire life...'

Imo