CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #1

[lunchbox]

She was cremated, without question. I post on a forum of a woman who has spoken to T (mom) on more than one occasion and she has confirmed she was cremated because it was M's wishes. I am under the impression (and I believe T, the mom actually said this as well) that she didn't initially think it was murder. It wasn't until a little later that she started putting two and two together. Still, I wish she hadn't been cremated! There's no way I would have done that considering the stalking and suspicious nature of her death.

 

[concernedmother]

Actually thats all we have at the point is a peeping tom unless more gets released.So far all the perp has done is mess around the windows.

 

[SoBeCzar]

The gutter over Morgan's window was bent/separated. None of the other gutters were affected. The windows in the house apparently went up to the ceiling, so a stalker could potentially see into her window from perching over that gutter. The tapping was likely from a telescoping rod the stalker carried with him. A mirror on the end of that telescoping rod is also a possibility. Haven't googled the house, so not sure if there were skylights. It's also important to remember this was a one-story house with easy access up and down from the aspen tree.

As far as hearing the pine cone fall, that wouldn't happen with a cedar shake roof. (I don't hear anything up there.)

Plus, if you take the blog at face value, what this stalker did was highly effective. The tapping really did freak them out enough to start altering their behavior and keeping Morgan under close watch.

I saw the picture of the gutter. There is still a large space between the roof and window which one would have to basically hang over precariously to see in. And then the idea of a telescoping rod is brought up. This stalker is thought to have had a utility vest, infrared goggles and now a telescoping rod.
I'm just trying to put things in perspective that sometimes the simple answer is overlooked. If a light is on in your house at night and you hear a noise you must decide to risk peeking out and turn off the light and give your eyes a moment to adjust to see what is out there. He could have knocked on the window and darted. The footprints were describe as a person being pressed against the window trying to see in. When they didn't see footprints later on after hearing the noise he may have just used a walking stick.
Look at the tree climbing video. First of all I do not see the broken gutter in that area. Second, look at the great length the roof sticks out from the walls of the house.
Just bouncing ideas around, looking for feedback.

 

[lunchbox]

That tree may not have been directly by the window. He could have been using it to hop up on the roof and shuffle over to Morgan's window to see in which would explain why the gutter is bent there. If he was hopping on the roof from the opposite side of the house, it also explains why nobody would hear a peep. He may have mixed it up all the time, too - roof one night, by foot the next, etc.

 

[boston_baby]

I found a link that shows a pic of the living room. They had quite the windows. Who wouldn't in a valley outside Aspen? If all the windows in the house were similar, I'd bet the tops of them were left open to the light.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/15710762/62-Corral-Drive-Carbondale-CO/

Always MOO

They were. One of the more recentish entries said precisely this, and Morgan got some heavy duty sheets and started tacking them up to cover the full window instead of just the "cafe curtain" setup that was in place prior to that.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Actually thats all we have at the point is a peeping tom unless more gets released.So far all the perp has done is mess around the windows.

We have only been provided with detailed information on the misdemeanor stalking incidents. Mom says this later gets elevated to felony stalking, and the perp has been in their house many times.

 

[concernedmother]

I saw the picture of the gutter. There is still a large space between the roof and window which one would have to basically hang over precariously to see in. And then the idea of a telescoping rod is brought up. This stalker is thought to have had a utility vest, infrared goggles and now a telescoping rod.
I'm just trying to put things in perspective that sometimes the simple answer is overlooked. If a light is on in your house at night and you hear a noise you must decide to risk peeking out and turn off the light and give your eyes a moment to adjust to see what is out there. He could have knocked on the window and darted. The footprints were describe as a person being pressed against the window trying to see in. When they didn't see footprints later on after hearing the noise he may have just used a walking stick.
Look at the tree climbing video. First of all I do not see the broken gutter in that area. Second, look at the great length the roof sticks out from the walls of the house.
Just bouncing ideas around, looking for feedback.

Well when you put it that way the dude sure has alot of equipment to lug around. Where in the heck did he put the walking stick while he was climbing the tree? He sure has alot of stuff to hang on to.:rocker:

 

[TripleE]

For the life of me I can't find where she talked about the fingernails. Did I dream it? Maybe she removed it from the blog...evidence they weren't supposed to release yet? Idk.

 

[MayraMM]

We have only been provided with detailed information on the misdemeanor stalking incidents. Mom says this later gets elevated to felony stalking, and the perp has been in their house many times.

In Colorado, all stalking is felonious. It's just degrees. There is no misdemeanor stalking, so either the cops weren't forthright with mom, or she misunderstood. I posted a link a couple of pages back that explained the degrees of stalking felonies and how they're bumped up to a higher level (usually repeat offender).

 

[MayraMM]

Forgive me but I'm having a tough time navigating the blog... Has it been stated * how* Morgan got carbon monoxide poisoning?

I wonder the same thing. Was the whole family involved? Were they all treated for it?

 

[lunchbox]

For the life of me I can't find where she talked about the fingernails. Did I dream it? Maybe she removed it from the blog...evidence they weren't supposed to release yet? Idk.

It's in the comments section of one of the blog entries. I'll see if I can find it real quick.

 

[Herding Cats]

Friends and neighbors, I'm feeling ill tonight (not because of this case, although it's enough to make one very sick...) so I may not be around all night like I was before.

I am working on a theory, and scouring the blog to find the references *I* think are important. Hopefully, I'll have something cogent later tonight or tomorrow. Sigh.

I do think that the latest posting from Toni (tonight's post) about maybe moving, and questioning if she/they are over reacting, is normal. When I was being stalked, there were a few occasions where I wondered if I was over reacting, or making things mean more than they did. Sometimes, yes, I came to the conclusion I was indeed overreacting. Sometimes, though...I would find out later that the car I thought was following me, actually was; or something along those lines.

Also, I have to say that in poking around a lot of the people's FBs, there are a goodish number of references to getting high, or the like. Seems that pot is the drug of choice, but it may be that pot is the more "accepted" drug, and others are/were used. And I don't necessarily know the drinking age in CO., but I will say there are a few photos of folks who are doing some drinking...and they're not 21 years old (they were younger than Morgan).

I am also going to say that there are a few groups of people, and some were indeed skateboarders. Not that skateboarding is itself wrong; of course not. But the first photo of a footprint has been claimed to be of an Etsie shoe, which is a skateboarding shoe...so there is that to consider, as well.

I'd also like to comment on high ceilings and shake roofing. High ceilings, especially if there is an attic between the ceiling and the roof (which there should be, for insulation purposes if nothing else), the attic space will muffle sound. And shake roofs are fairly thick pieces of wood, layered over each other, and they will also muffle sound.

I find it quite possible that the stalker used the roof...I'm fairly sure he used it as a hideout when the parents came running outside, and I suspect that he used it at other times. It's a great hiding place....how many times do YOU look at your own roof, either coming home or leaving home? I suspect that the roof was used, as well as the paths in the berm leading toward the neighbor house (the berm which was mowed recently...after never having been mowed before. Sigh.)

And yes, I agree, there is a high likelihood that no photos were taken. Cazzie, "clearing the house" could mean a few things, but usually means making everyone leave, so that it's only LE and paramedics at the scene...it could also mean checking in closets and cabinets for lurking bad guys. But since there was no thought that this was a crime scene, I'm thinking that the clearing of the house on the day of her death was simply getting people who lived there (Toni and Steve) and pets (Tessi, Waylah, and the cat) out of the way so they could work without them present and "in the way."

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[TripleE]

It's in the comments section of one of the blog entries. I'll see if I can find it real quick.

Found it! It's in the comments for the post about sept 12th

 

[marycarney]

I wonder the same thing. Was the whole family involved? Were they all treated for it?

I remember reading she was treated in a hyperbaric chamber. Odd, as it did not seem like it was a life-threatening event (the only time that degree of treatment is needed). Usually, the victim is given 100% oxygen for a period of time (hours to days) until the CO level falls to an acceptable level. This treatment 'washes out' the CO.

Edit: Just went back and read the CO diagnosis was after complaining of 'headaches'. Which - again - indicates it was NOT a life-threatening situation.

 

[SmoothOperator]

In catch up mode again(real life seems to always get in the way)..just read the latest post and see we got an answer to some questions that were asked couple days ago regarding the Ingram home and did they own it(as in pay a mortgage).. Or were they renting/leasing the home when/where all of the stalking took place and where Morgan died..

In the latest post she is discussing her and Steve's serious thoughts on moving and would that even solve the problem or possibly only make it worse?..they obviously decided on staying put but what leads me to believe the home was not owned by them, but rather they were merely renting/leasing the home is her saying that she(at that time) was looking for other houses for which they could "lease"..IMO indicating that the home they were living at that time was also a rented/leased home..atleast that was my take on it..others may read that differently than I.e..

My apologies in advance if this topic has already been thoroughly discussed and this posts lands randomly amidst a totally different and unrelated topic...

Off to go catch back up now

**and again please excuse tremendoous errors and typos my tablet has somehow reset itself back to the default keyboard(which goes without saying, sucks terribly)..hopefully I can figure out how to get it back on the keyboard that I bought and downloaded for the most obvious of reasons..lol..

 

[twinkiesmom]

In Colorado, all stalking is felonious. It's just degrees. There is no misdemeanor stalking, so either the cops weren't forthright with mom, or she misunderstood. I posted a link a couple of pages back that explained the degrees of stalking felonies and how they're bumped up to a higher level (usually repeat offender).

It may be terminology then...I remember reading that the window tapping could only result in charges of trespassing or harrassment.

 

[Herding Cats]

I wonder the same thing. Was the whole family involved? Were they all treated for it?

I am working from inference here, but it would seem to me that the Ingrams lived in the Los Angeles area in 2003, as the hospital which did the work up on the CO2 poisoning was UCLA, Mattel's Children's Wing. It's a top notch hospital, and there is reference to Toni giving information to the Dr they saw there for a second opinion after Morgan died. I suspect they contacted the Dr because they were looking for an underlying reason that may have caused Morgan to die (e.g. the unmade porphyria dx).

So I'm of the opinion that they lived in the area of Los Angeles before moving to Colorado. Given that they'd been in the Aspen Valley for 6 1/2 years prior to Morgan's death, that would give a move date of +/-'04 ish. (2011 - 6.5 = 2004, June). (The Dr visit at UCLA was in 2003).

What I'm wondering is which Dr. rx'd the amitriptyline in Colorado, as the rx was about 2 years old (or 1.5 years old), and how much she was given, and how much she used. It may be important to note that the paramedic on scene told Toni that there were no unaccounted for pills in the bottle, meaning none were missing. Unless it was an unused rx, some pills had to be missing, so that leads me to believe that say, out of a 30 pill rx, 28 remained, and those two missing pills were not enough to cause a lethal dose or buildup in Morgan. Or some similar number, given we don't know the mg of the dose or how many pills were given at the time the rx was filled.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[marycarney]

I am working from inference here, but it would seem to me that the Ingrams lived in the Los Angeles area in 2003, as the hospital which did the work up on the CO2 poisoning was UCLA, Mattel's Children's Wing. It's a top notch hospital, and there is reference to Toni giving information to the Dr they saw there for a second opinion after Morgan died. I suspect they contacted the Dr because they were looking for an underlying reason that may have caused Morgan to die (e.g. the unmade porphyria dx).

So I'm of the opinion that they lived in the area of Los Angeles before moving to Colorado. Given that they'd been in the Aspen Valley for 6 1/2 years prior to Morgan's death, that would give a move date of +/-'04 ish. (2011 - 6.5 = 2004, June). (The Dr visit at UCLA was in 2003).

What I'm wondering is which Dr. rx'd the amitriptyline in Colorado, as the rx was about 2 years old (or 1.5 years old), and how much she was given, and how much she used. It may be important to note that the paramedic on scene told Toni that there were no unaccounted for pills in the bottle, meaning none were missing. Unless it was an unused rx, some pills had to be missing, so that leads me to believe that say, out of a 30 pill rx, 28 remained, and those two missing pills were not enough to cause a lethal dose or buildup in Morgan. Or some similar number, given we don't know the mg of the dose or how many pills were given at the time the rx was filled.

Best-
Herding Cats

BBM
I am HIGHLY SKEPTICAL of a paramedic telling a family member this. They do not operate in the world of making these determinations, and once she was declared dead, they would have packed their bags, and left the scene in the hands of law enforcement. Also, at the time, how would ANYONE have suspected the Elavil - the cause of death being undetermined at the scene.

 

[MayraMM]

I remember reading she was treated in a hyperbaric chamber. Odd, as it did not seem like it was a life-threatening event (the only time that degree of treatment is needed). Usually, the victim is given 100% oxygen for a period of time (hours to days) until the CO level falls to an acceptable level. This treatment 'washes out' the CO.

There's a protocol that's usually followed, usually twice a day for several days, and usually for severe cases. I wonder what the circumstances were. The fax today mentions possible "chronic" carbon monoxide exposure, not acute. In other words, it was a continuous thing, like a faulty chimney flue or exhaust from a car. It manifested in headaches, abdominal migraines, and cognitive disorders, and the treatment partially alleviated the symptoms.

If she was chronically exposed to carbon monoxide, then the rest of the family had to have been, since the symptoms manifested in 2003, when she wasn't even a teenager yet, and who knows how long the problem existed before it was detected. Who else fell ill? Did any of them have cognitive impairment? Did any of them require treatment?

This was 8 years before the incidents blogged about, but it would explain the parents hypervigilence; having almost lost her once already, but you also have to wonder how a child could have chronic exposure to carbon monoxide, and not anyone else in the home. Was there something about the ventilation in her bedroom? Could it have been that some sort of stalking happened way back then? If so, then the folks down the street, other than the father, can be ruled out. Anyone know how long they were at that house?

This is why I'd like to know the specifics of the poisoning.

Notice she was poisoned then, as well as at the time of her death.

 

[Cazzie]

Friends and neighbors, I'm feeling ill tonight (not because of this case, although it's enough to make one very sick...) so I may not be around all night like I was before.

...

Cazzie, "clearing the house" could mean a few things, but usually means making everyone leave, so that it's only LE and paramedics at the scene...it could also mean checking in closets and cabinets for lurking bad guys. But since there was no thought that this was a crime scene, I'm thinking that the clearing of the house on the day of her death was simply getting people who lived there (Toni and Steve) and pets (Tessi, Waylah, and the cat) out of the way so they could work without them present and "in the way."

Best-
Herding Cats

SBM.

I hope you feel better soon, HC. Surely there are a few healers sprawling around.