CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #1

[Elisabeth2413]

I think that would be interesting to know what the conversation was about. It might give insight to what demeanor Morgan was in.

It was in a phone conversation between the mother and some one else on another forum I belong to. Im not sure if Im allowed to post? Can some one let me know if its ok to?

 

[gitana1]

Probably, but there are a lot of cases on here that make no sense.

IMO..This grandmother didn't just wake up one day and decide to make this big plot up. I'm sure she is grieving very hard. Maybe grief clouds her "thoughts" on what could have really happened and if Morgan did/ or didn't commit suicide. I don't know.

I agree with you for the most part. Clearly, the mom did not suddenly make this up. There were calls to the police and discussions with neighbors, friends, etc., for months before Morgan died. They felt they were being stalked for months and reacted to that on a daily basis.

But really, virtually every case on websleuths makes sense to me and has a logical explanation. Yes, there may be a couple of things here and there in a case that don't totally fit, (like the double prints in the Jason Young case) but nothing so big as this. When something as big as whether or not a murder actually took place at all is what doesn't fit, it may be time to reevaluate what you're looking at.

Like I said before, I'm going to stay open, especially as we have not heard yet everything Morgan's mom has to say.

But for now, a murder scenario in which a frighteningly persistent and cunning stalker manages to break into the house of people who have been prepared for such a break in and guarding against it, and then murders his victim by forcing her to drink something, or he injects something in her, all the while as she calmly lays there and allows him to do it, no sign of any struggle or forced entry of any kind, and/or he somehow manages to track her and pre-drug her in the night before breaking into a heavily guarded house to finish the job in a perfectly timed masterpiece of murder that displays not one iota of a connection to the types of murders stalkers commit (i.e., no sexual assault, no violence, no signs of rage), defies any kind of reasonable logic, fits zero profiles for this kind of case and seems implausible.

(The death occurred at night, BTW. On the website about Morgan's death, they state she came home and went to bed early, that a doe went by her room at 3:45 a.m. to say goodbye and that her parents found her lifeless body that morning).

I love a good story just like the next person. But when it comes to crime and the actual deaths of actual people who existed, I count on verifiable facts and logic.

I see problems with this case. Big ones, on both sides of the fence. So, I am on the fence and waiting to hear more. But so far, there are certain things I can't get past. The second opinion of Dr. Doberson certainly raises questions but does not help explain how the murderer would have pulled off such an incredibly Bondesque feat and why he would commit a murder in that fashion, a manner that does not indicate obsession or jealousy or the desire to instill fear and torment, at all. :moo:

 

[lillygator]

It would be hugely helpful to me to know if other members of the family support this blog and agree with T.I.'s account of the stalking. While I would never want to contribute to this poor woman's grief or victimize this family further by calling into question TI's account, the fact is that the story, as it is presented, presents some red flags to me that could point to extreme psychological manipulation coming from outside the house (supporting the idea of an obsessed stalker) or (and I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here) could also come from inside of the house. This possibility might be easily eliminated with further corroboration of the story.

The blog, as it is written, invites readers to speculate and seek answers to this perplexing case, so I hope raising these questions does not offend.

I have to agree 100%........

 

[gitana1]

I don't believe the stalker was acting out of jealousy but rather someone instigating the stalking to punish M. This is just my working theory.

I do suspect M was in many ways the perfect victim for a mental vs. a physical attack.

I do have many unanswered questions such as why she was carrying such a diminished load of coursework (2 ballet classes) when her ultimate goal was to go to law school (per the website parent of the blog).

Assuming the stalking was real, did the it start much earlier than the parents were aware of?

Why did she start the semester with a reduced load? Was she working instead of taking classes (and if not, why not)? Was she tired or sick at the beginning of the school year (or even earlier when she registered for classes)?

I would also like to know her friends' individual reactions to her death and if it caused anyone to bolt from the area.

There could be various reasons why Morgan was not in college or was taking a reduced load at the time. her mother does give an explanation and it seemed okay to me though I can't totally remember it now. Finances could have also been a factor.

As for her murder stemming from a desire to punish her, the manner of murder would not fit that at all either, IMO.

I've been following true crime, murders, for decades. It's a little hobby for me as it is for many of us on websleuths. Profilers profile because it works. It solves cases. Psychologists assist in these case and trends, and M.O.s have been documented for centuries.

Someone who wants to punish another person is not going to have them quietly put to sleep. The ONLY time I have seen murder scenarios that resemble what Morgan's mom appears to think happened here are spouses trying to get out of a marriage and/or get insurance money, parents who want insurance money for their kids or sympathy in a Munchausen's-type accidental or intentional killing, or crazy, serial killing nurses who also want some kind of attention for "saving" or "finding" patients who they have harmed or killed, or who simply enjoy killing a la repeated angel of death scenarios.

The murder of Morgan would have stemmed from rage, jealousy, a misguided desire for revenge, or violent obsession, if committed by her stalker. None of those motivations result in quiet, die in your sleep type murders. :twocents:

this is where I am leaning.....and who was home when she was found? if she was found at noon wouldn't the mom have been there - didn't she work from home?

She was found in the morning according to the website about her death.

 

[lunchbox]

If someone does this, it's good idea to check it out first with a Mod, IMO. There are TOS rules about contacting victims (I think), and also about presenting oneself as a representative of WS (a no-no). Just saying.

Oops, okay. Didn't realize that! Definitely make sure it's not a big no-no before you do this (IF anyone does this). Was just throwing it out there.

 

[nursebeeme]

If someone does this, it's good idea to check it out first with a Mod, IMO. There are TOS rules about contacting victims (I think), and also about presenting oneself as a representative of WS (a no-no). Just saying.

yes, you are correct about that.

 

[Cazzie]

It would be hugely helpful to me to know if other members of the family support this blog and agree with T.I.'s account of the stalking. While I would never want to contribute to this poor woman's grief or victimize this family further by calling into question TI's account, the fact is that the story, as it is presented, presents some red flags to me that could point to extreme psychological manipulation coming from outside the house (supporting the idea of an obsessed stalker) or (and I'm trying to be as delicate as possible here) could also come from inside of the house. This possibility might be easily eliminated with further corroboration of the story.

The blog, as it is written, invites readers to speculate and seek answers to this perplexing case, so I hope raising these questions does not offend.

M's father (Steve) has posted a couple times on the blog (altho under Tina's username), and the recent post about having been marrried for 38 years and that they will handle this challenge together as they have done with everything else for all those years makes it pretty safe to say that he supports the blog and information presented there.

Check their facebook and he posts under his name there.

https://www.facebook.com/morgansstalking

 

[helpful]

Reading the blog about this case made me have nightmares last night. I can't imagine what Morgan must have felt living through it.

 

[deca]

One thing that has occurred to me several times since joining WS: Sometimes I think I have "seen it all" and "all crimes are done this way or that" but later find out that I am wrong.
So I think a crazy perp stalker could have done this despite it being unusual and/or maybe unlikely. I am going to respect the victim and victim's family on this one unless evidence in MSM comes out against them.
Just my two cents.

 

[Cazzie]

Reading the blog about this case made me have nightmares last night. I can't imagine what Morgan must have felt living through it.

I read the whole thing during the middle of one nite. But I didn't want any interruptions and distractions (other than self-imposed). It's scary enough to read it during the daytime tho.

The way it's written makes me feel like I'm living it. Tina is doing an excellent job of doing that, while still showing Morgan's personality, art, love of animals, and family dynamics, IMO. She also interjects those resource materials (which I have not yet read).

 

[lillygator]

M's father (Steve) has posted a couple times on the blog (altho under Tina's username), and the recent post about having been marrried for 38 years and that they will handle this challenge together as they have done with everything else for all those years makes it pretty safe to say that he supports the blog and information presented there.

Check their facebook and he posts under his name there.

https://www.facebook.com/morgansstalking

I would be interested in hearing from the brother and his family as well as her sister. Did many of her friends know wha was going on?

 

[MayraMM]

There could be various reasons why Morgan was not in college or was taking a reduced load at the time. her mother does give an explanation and it seemed okay to me though I can't totally remember it now. Finances could have also been a factor.

As for her murder stemming from a desire to punish her, the manner of murder would not fit that at all either, IMO.

I've been following true crime, murders, for decades. It's a little hobby for me as it is for many of us on websleuths. Profilers profile because it works. It solves cases. Psychologists assist in these case and trends, and M.O.s have been documented for centuries.

Someone who wants to punish another person is not going to have them quietly put to sleep. The ONLY time I have seen murder scenarios that resemble what Morgan's mom appears to think happened here are spouses trying to get out of a marriage and/or get insurance money, parents who want insurance money for their kids or sympathy in a Munchausen's-type accidental or intentional killing, or crazy, serial killing nurses who also want some kind of attention for "saving" or "finding" patients who they have harmed or killed, or who simply enjoy killing a la repeated angel of death scenarios.

The murder of Morgan would have stemmed from rage, jealousy, a misguided desire for revenge, or violent obsession, if committed by her stalker. None of those motivations result in quiet, die in your sleep type murders. :twocents:



She was found in the morning according to the website about her death.

Also, I think we need to remember that traditionally, women tend to poison, men to shoot, stab or choke. Not to say a woman wouldn't shoot and a man wouldn't poison. This poor girl was poisoned twice in her life.

On another note, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not finding any correlation between the timeline and statements of LE being called and the call sheet that was linked a couple of pagers back, other than the day M actually died. There was the 08/26 entry, but on the blog, there was no mention on LE being called that day. There were no calls entered from the dates the blog does mention LE being involved so far, including the night of the picture. Was there another LE department involved, or did I just misread the call sheet?

 

[deca]

Also, I think we need to remember that traditionally, women tend to poison, men to shoot, stab or choke. Not to say a woman wouldn't shoot and a man wouldn't poison. This poor girl was poisoned twice in her life.

On another note, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm not finding any correlation between the timeline and statements of LE being called and the call sheet that was linked a couple of pagers back, other than the day M actually died. There was the 08/26 entry, but on the blog, there was no mention on LE being called that day. There were no calls entered from the dates the blog does mention LE being involved so far, including the night of the picture. Was there another LE department involved, or did I just misread the call sheet?

Mom made a comment or blog post saying something to the effect that LE jurisdiction was complicated for their neck of the woods. I wonder is some calls went to another dept??

 

[Cazzie]

I would be interested in hearing from the brother and his family as well as her sister. Did many of her friends know wha was going on?

Pretty sure they did.

The only blog entry that I recall specifically mentioning that topic, is the one I posted about yesterday. It's the one where M brought home a few friends who all wanted to see the stalker pic. They looked at it and they all "freaked".

But M almost every day went to hang out with friends, and there was a lot of texting between her and her mom to coordinate rides or meeting her in the driveway when she was to return home. So my impression is that, at least, the friends that M hung out with knew about the stalker events.

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Reading the posts about the earlier case of carbon monoxide poisoning gave me the chills. It too seems very unusual, and while it's certainly possible the two things are entirely unrelated, there are also troubling possibilities if one considers that they may not be.

You are certainly not alone having these thoughts. As I mulled it over though, I started thinking that it must not be uncommon or they wouldn't sell the carbon monoxide home detectors.

Here are some statistics.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5650a1.htm

Unintentional CO exposure accounts for an estimated 15,000 emergency department visits and 500 unintentional deaths in the United States each year

http://www.creia.org/July-2011-Inspector-eNews/carbon-monoxide-leading-cause-of-poisoning-deaths.html

Depending on who's statistics you believe, carbon monoxide poisoning causes between 200 and 700 deaths per year in the US. For every person killed there are another 5 or so that will require some form of hospital visit. No matter which numbers you use, this makes carbon monoxide the leading cause of poisoning death in the US.

Even worse, only 1 in 77 will be properly diagnosed based on symptoms alone.

So I am thinking it happens much more than I know but the real kicker for me was in that last link where it showed the table of how many "parts per million" of CO concentration for certain symptoms and I thought who would know that or how to regulate that and be sure what result you would get. I don't think this would be something anyone would be playing around with. JMO

 

[gitana1]

One thing that has occurred to me several times since joining WS: Sometimes I think I have "seen it all" and "all crimes are done this way or that" but later find out that I am wrong.
So I think a crazy perp stalker could have done this despite it being unusual and/or maybe unlikely. I am going to respect the victim and victim's family on this one unless evidence in MSM comes out against them.
Just my two cents.

I hear ya'. But there is evidence indicated in the MSM against their version of events or that undermine their belief that Morgan was murdered or even stalked.

First, the police state that despite coming to the home on over 50 occasions, IIRC, they were never able to find any evidence at all of stalking. They mention no foot prints or tampered door locks, nothing.

Second, they state there were no signs of an assault, which I take to mean no signs of a break-in or physical struggle, or sexual assault, etc.:
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/09/07/parents-say-daughter-was-murdered-want-investigation-reopened/

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120901/VALLEYNEWS/120839978/1083&ParentProfile=1074

Now maybe the police are lying, covering up, confused, inept, whatever. I don't know. But definitive statements from law enforcement stating what they have regarding Morgan's stalking and death, certainly point to evidence against the parent's theories, as published in the MSM.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Sounds like it happened in the middle of the night and she was discovered in the morning.
ETA or a little later...

http://morganingram.com/murder.html

Our neighbor behind us has a motion detector and any little movement in the trees from the wind makes it go off. I wonder if little critters in their yard could have sometimes been the sources of the lights coming on and noises on windows. I know I have been sitting in my bedroom by the window and birds or woodpeckers have pecked at our window...

Looks like something on 4 legs in that pic.at the 2-3o'clock mark..

 

[AbbeyR]

It's also perplexing that they were worried enough about their safety that they considered moving, but not an alarm system in their home. This would seem to be an easier solution than setting up a complex system of motion detectors.

But I know, hindsight is 20/20. Not critical of the family's choices, just trying to figure out the logic as these things were happening.

 

[boston_baby]

The Co poisoning thing bothers me. It's hard to put a finger on, and I kno their living location was discussed a little ways back, but here's the thing, and someone from the area, please fill me in.

If she got the CO poisoning treatment at UCLA, then it would stand to reason that the event occurred there. (Maybe not, but it would seem fair to assume.) Do people in LA really have fossil fuel-burning furnaces? I was under the impression that they do not and the heating system (if any) is electricity-based, like a heat pump. I know that's the norm for just about all the other warm-weather places in this country, so I am thinking southern CA would likely be the same. The CO poisoning was reported to be from a furnace flue.

I guess it could be bad terminology and really be a gas-powered water heater that had a faulty ventilation system, but it made me wonder nonetheless.

Someone from southern CA please fill us in on the usual home heating situation in your area.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

At what time was Morgan actually found deceased by mom?.I would have thought she was an early riser and with not being up i would have thought mom would have checked in on her earlier than 12 noon?..