CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #3

[MelissaDawn]

I don't know.

Perhaps they think if people live out the day by day horror, it will resonate further and create an awareness and concern that may subside if the simple story was just put out for everyone to see at one time. They create interest and people become emotionally invested.

I'm speculating of course.

That's actually the problem I have with this - you can't try a murder case on emotion. I have great compassion for this family and their suffering, but I'm not going on a witch hunt and hurt someone else without evidence to do so. Many of us have lived the day by day horror of something similar with lost loved ones, we already have that emotional connection, now we need the evidence.

 

[Meri]

I do not believe LE is covering up due to tourism, nor would they need to, especially since the parents seem to feel they know who the alleged stalker was. I don't believe there is a murderer on the loose, killing random sleeping women without a trace. If in fact this alleged crime took place, it seems to have been pretty specific as to victim, IMO.

But, the fact that there are so many "suicides" in that area as compared to murders, kind of makes one wonder.

 

[mysterygirl]

I don't really think anyone is implying this is a hoax or someone being (intentionally) dishonest. It's only been 10 months since Morgan died, we understand the parents are grieving, probably still absolutely distraught at times. Are you saying that murder is the truth? No court is going to arrest and imprison someone for murder THEN look for evidence to support that position. I'm pretty certain that everyone here, regardless of their position on this case at this moment, would want justice for Morgan if she indeed was murdered.

No I didn't say that.

I'm saying I'm giving the parents the benefit of the doubt in order to brainstorm with like minded people.

I do believe the family was stalked.

I am unable to make a call on her death. And apparently I'm not alone since the experts can't agree either.

 

[FrayedKnot]

So, you think the family caused her (M) to kill herself?

No.

I think that M was troubled to the point of not being able to attend school, sleep in her own room or go to gyno appts alone.

Before I am comfortable flinging accusations of stalking, bullying, drugging and murder at people to whom there is not a single shred of evidence with which to convict, I would make darn sure that whatever happened wasn't just a tragedy in which there was no crime.

Blaming any and everyone else without proof is wrong, no matter how bad mom is hurting.

 

[raine1212]

I feel for the parents, and I am so sorry for their loss. They loss their baby, it's hard they are victims also. But JMO the true victim is Morgan her life is gone and for what reason. That's why we are all here to find the truth so Morgan can rest in peace.

They may be a stalker/murder or there may be no stalker/suicide either way we are doing this for Morgan, her story will be told, by who I don't know.. RIP Morgan and know you are loved by many

 

[MayraMM]

Did her parents make her sleep in their closet or did she choose to?

I have only read 2 pages of the blog.

We have only mom's accounts on that. At one point she says M chose to sleep in the closet because she was afraid, but she also later said that it was M who insisted on no longer sleeping in the closet.

There's no way of knowing whose idea it was. Someone a million pages back made an excellent point: why not sleep in bed with mom, and let dad sleep in M's bed?

 

[polly1]

I do not believe LE is covering up due to tourism, nor would they need to, especially since the parents seem to feel they know who the alleged stalker was. I don't believe there is a murderer on the loose, killing random sleeping women without a trace. If in fact this alleged crime took place, it seems to have been pretty specific as to victim, IMO.

There have been murders in the county that have gone to court and the suspect found guilty often as not. But Pitkin County was just reported to have the highest number of suicides in Colorado. Aspen is in Pitken County. But the Ingrams live below Pitken, but still close enough. I think, though I am no crime specialist, that there are suicides in Paradise and there are murders, too.

 

[MayraMM]

As far as the mom, it's only been 10 mths since m's death. I'm sure everyday is a walking nightmare for the mom and dad. I'm not sure I could even talk after 10 mths. For one thing, IMO, their grief is undeniable on the blog.

That's why we have to be so careful about who we accuse and what we believe. A dear friend of mine became a friend because her son had been missing. I happened to come by the information where he might be buried. I called LE and we were actually able to give them coordinates by using Google Earth. In that case, LE did EVERYTHING wrong. It was unreal. Anyway, after my call to LE, I called the mom. She said that was the first real night's sleep she had gotten since her son disappeared and thanked me for telling her, even tho I probably can't show my face in a certain city . . . ever!

It's actually a case that was talked over here. The brother-in-law took the blame because he wanted to protect his niece and nephew, which in retrospect was a bad idea. He's in prison now and the real killer is off attacking other people.

Anyway, I've been thru that grief process with the mom. I heard her grasp at every straw she could. I've sat quietly while she read to me the ME report on all the injuries her son sustained and listened to her cry. She couldn't not share every single detail and clue with anyone who would listen.

She can't save her son, but talking about it over and over again is what she needs, and listening to her is the greatest gift I can give her, even if I've heard it for the 50th time.

Right now I see TI in the throes of grief. I think externalizing it by writing the blog is a form of therapy for her. Unfortunately, she took it too far by naming names. Now it's going to blow up into something I don't think she wanted. I think the best thing that could happen for her is for someone to hold her really tight, let her scream and cry, and then get her an attorney.

 

[cluciano63]

There have been murders in the county that have gone to court and the suspect found guilty often as not. But Pitkin County was just reported to have the highest number of suicides in Colorado. Aspen is in Pitken County. But the Ingrams live below Pitken, but still close enough. I think, though I am no crime specialist, that there are suicides in Paradise and there are murders, too.

I am sure there are. But there is no proof that LE covers up murders, or calls them suicides.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

No I didn't say that.

I'm saying I'm giving the parents the benefit of the doubt in order to brainstorm with like minded people.

I do believe the family was stalked.

I am unable to make a call on her death. And apparently I'm not alone since the experts can't agree either.

BBM: The experts in this case ruled M's death as "natural" pending toxicology results. Based on the results it was formally termed "suicide" as the cause of death.

 

[Confusion]

I tend to look at this just like the missing person cases I've followed. It does no good to just sit and argue about whether or not witnesses are being truthful if you really want to find the truth about what happened. I guess my problem with so much of what I've been reading is that rather than coming up with a better explanation for the things that have been said to have happened, a lot of people seem to refuse to believe anything happened - or to allow anyone else to continue while assuming that they did happen (whether by the person or for the reason the family believes or not).

If everything was just mass hallucinations like seems to be suggested, I'm sure it will eventually come out that that's the case. If these things really did happen (I have no reason to doubt what's been said so far), I'd hate to think that somewhere someone else is going through the same thing and nothing is being done to stop it because we, LE, ME, etc. are all too busy arguing about if that guy on the video is looking left, looking right, the woman next door, Freddy Kruger or someone's vivid imagination.

I'm not saying that the events that happened couldn't have been explained away in other ways or that she couldn't have committed suicide. For me, I'm going on the assumption that there was a stalker intent on harrassing M, and maybe her family, and that she could very well have been murdered. If I start believing otherwise, I'll just move on to a case where I feel I might actually be able to make a difference for someone. My biggest problem with it right now is that I'm not totally convinced that the people being accused are [completely] to blame. I have a feeling that they could have just been used as 'puppets' for someone else, but I haven't figured out for sure who yet. MOO

 

[shellbee]

I'm still unclear on the jewelry, since there was never any follow through, jmo. That came after the young man the family suspected was a stalker was arrested for that type of crime, so...

The Ingram's POI was arrested on a warrant for theft by receiving according to this link:

http://www.postindependent.com/article/20120113/VALLEYNEWS/120119952

Possibly the reason there was no follow through is because the existence of the charge indicates police verified ownership of the alleged stolen items and they were not Morgan's. :what:

That's an awkward sentence. I hope it makes sense.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

One thing I can say from research....stalking is a case of he said..she said. That's one of the main reasons most people don't report it.

One thing I can say from experience (3 separate stalking incidents) there was clear evidence, witnesses, letters, phone calls, trespassing, etc. and it was handled properly every time by police.

No innuendos, nothing ambiguous, nothing mysterious, nothing vague about it...all three separate cases.

Just sayin'.....from experience. Personally, I would hate for someone to make up stalking or use it as an assuage for other emotions. My stalkings were no joke but they were obvious.

 

[iluvmua]

I just have a really hard time believing that Morgan was stalked and then murdered.

on July 22, her mother said that there would be evidence posted and here we are 2 months later and nothing.

This case is just a head scratcher.

 

[iluvmua]

One thing I can say from experience (3 separate stalking incidents) there was clear evidence, witnesses, letters, phone calls, trespassing, etc. and it was handled properly every time by police.

No innuendos, nothing ambiguous, nothing mysterious, nothing vague about it...all three separate cases.

Just sayin'.....from experience. Personally, I would hate for someone to make up stalking or use it as an assuage for other emotions. My stalkings were no joke but they were obvious.

which is why I have a hard time believing that she was stalked.

I also have a hard time believing that her 'stalker' was stalking her for 4 months before he decided to kill her.

In the case of Jodi Sanderholm, the guy (Justin Thurber) had been stalking her for ten years.

I though most stalkers stalk their victims for years and not months.

please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mysterygirl]

BBM: The experts in this case ruled M's death as "natural" pending toxicology results. Based on the results it was formally termed "suicide" as the cause of death.

Since some want hardcore evidence, where is the evidence for suicide?

No note.......

Elavil bottles with pills still in them.

 

[Tugela]

Ah, found the entry:

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?paged=2


" first Forensic Pathologist honestly was on a phone call discussing how he could not change her manner of death from natural causes, and calmly said Morgan was taking Amitriptyline (elavil, WHICH SHE WAS NOT), for her porphyria (WHICH SHE DID NOT HAVE). So how can a person so uninformed about Morgan Ingram be in any position to render an opinion about Morgan Ingram? It was on this phone call that I was threatened by this Pathologist that if I continued fighting the natural causes he would have to look into suicide or accidental overdose, but he couldn’t because he did not find any pills or remnants in her stomach at the time of autopsy. Now to BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, I have advised everyone involved that she did not take Amitriptyline, and I advised the Sheriffs Detectives in person that I was threatened by the doctor long before he actually carried through on his threat."

She says she advised the Sheriffs Detectives in person that she was threatened by the doctor long before he carried through on his threat but it doesn't make clear whether she logged an official complaint or it was just something she said to them in the course of other conversation.

That is not a threat, it's just the words she is using. Basically he was saying that if she continued pushing it he would have to consider suicide or overdose as the finding. I assume that he knew it was likely an overdose situation, but made a natural causes finding basically to save the family from potential guilt and/or shame (which many feel when suicide is the cause of death).

That is what happened with my sister, we know for sure she committed suicide because she phoned my mom just before and told her so she could say goodbye. Then my mom called me because she didn't know what to do. We live in different countries though so all we could do was call the local law enforcement to get them to intervene. Which they did, but then they let my sister go to bed and the next day she was dead. Officially it was heart failure, but we know different. There is not much you can do about it after the fact though, the dead are dead and getting all upset about it is not going to change that.

The ME would have based the comments about amitriptyline on her medical records, after all she had been on it for a long time, what was he supposed to say if she had a massive dose in her system? Likewise the pophyria comment. In contrast to her mother's claims, in the independant report she published her own pathologist said that while acute intermittent pophyria had been considered, a definitive diagnosis had never been made.

I guess that she wanted a finding of homicide, so she viewed the alternative suggestion of suicide or overdose as a threat - it was going in a direction she didn't want. That seems to be her tone in that post anyway. It is very defensive. It is interesting that she viewed that as a threat. A finding of homicide would allow her to go on a campaign against this alleged stalker and get support from law enforcement and others. That wouldn't happen with a finding of suicide or overdose.

 

[Sailorsgirl]

I just have a really hard time believing that Morgan was stalked and then murdered.

on July 22, her mother said that there would be evidence posted and here we are 2 months later and nothing.

This case is just a head scratcher.

It seems with each day, despite blog entries stating we'll see proof, things just get more muddled and confusing. There seemed to be more evidence (footprint, photo) in the early part of the stalking and now, it's mostly posts about speculations and finger-pointing.

 

[mysterygirl]

which is why I have a hard time believing that she was stalked.

I also have a hard time believing that her 'stalker' was stalking her for 4 months before he decided to kill her.

In the case of Jodi Sanderholm, the guy (Justin Thurber) had been stalking her for ten years.

I though most stalkers stalk their victims for years and not months.

please correct me if I'm wrong.

The average length of time is six months to two years

 

[Confusion]

One thing I can say from experience (3 separate stalking incidents) there was clear evidence, witnesses, letters, phone calls, trespassing, etc. and it was handled properly every time by police.

No innuendos, nothing ambiguous, nothing mysterious, nothing vague about it...all three separate cases.

Just sayin'.....from experience. Personally, I would hate for someone to make up stalking or use it as an assuage for other emotions. My stalkings were no joke but they were obvious.

<modsnip> One of "mine" was just plain stupid. He'd get over work at about 2am, drive almost 2 hours to see if there were any cars parked in my driveway and then drive 2 hours back home. The funny thing is that I found out about it after he had been doing it for at least 6 months, and he had been checking the wrong house! Before I had moved there, I'd get about 15-20 phone calls a week with nobody talking (long before caller ID was around). He told someone he just did it to see if he could hear any male voices in the background; I just never got a phone connected at my new place. I'd also occasionally get a letter in the mail with a list of license numbers from every car parked within 20 feet of my place in the previous month, and he did enter my place a couple of times when I was at work and left notes on the counter to let me know he'd been there.

It did finally sink in that something was wrong after he found out he was spending about 4 hours a night, and who knows how much gas, to check up on a retired couple who lived down the street from me. After over 3 years, he finally started seeing a therapist instead. I guess I was just as dumb as he was because I never even thought of calling the police about him. If he hadn't chosen to send the letters, leave the notes or tell a mutual friend about the calls, I don't know if I could have come up with as much evidence as the I's have.