CO - The Stalking and Mysterious Death of Morgan Ingram #4

[polly1]

:seeya:
Please: I am new too, posted some posts, not many. I keep reiterating how I feel: We need EVIDENCE instead of making suppositions based on one source. But now I have a VERY SINCERE QUESTION THAT I REALLY HOPE ONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER: IF we had access to the original toxi results/lab results, is there anyone on WS who is CERTIFIED to medically interpret the results correctly?
Thanks very much!:blushing:

 

[rollinginit]

I bet when snarkymalarkey made the first thread.....they never thought it would get this far or heated. LOL

Actually what I do to find myself on this board....I click my user name at the top left hand corner. Then when my page comes up....I click status. Then it gives you 2 choices. You can click "show all post by (username) or "show all threads by (username). I click show all post....and the icon will light up as an open envelope. That let's you know somebody respond to the thread. If you click on it....it will go right to your post.

 

[mysterygirl]

:seeya:
Please: I am new too, posted some posts, not many. I keep reiterating how I feel: We need EVIDENCE instead of making suppositions based on one source. But now I have a VERY SINCERE QUESTION THAT I REALLY HOPE ONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER: IF we had access to the original toxi results/lab results, is there anyone on WS who is CERTIFIED to medically interpret the results correctly?
Thanks very much!:blushing:

Not to my knowledge.

We could figure out the numbers but we need someone who deals with this on a regular basis IMO.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

IMO, that mixture of drugs was a guarantee that she was not going to live. In the reports I've done with obvious suicidal ideation, I don't recall ever having a jumper, shooter, or slit wrister waitasec. All I can remember doing in 15 years are reports of intentional drug overdoses and in almost all of them it was with multiple drugs, with the people intent on killing themselves. The suicidal gestures tended to be one-drug overdoses, and they almost always called someone to tell them what they had done or planned it out so someone would come home in time. The ones who meant business took handfuls of what ever they could get a hold of. Some even stockpiled medication for the big event.

So, in my opinion only, I think M wanted to make sure she wasn't going to be saved. I think she slowly gathered the medications, borrowing them here and there from friends, dipping into the supple at home in a non-obvious way, until she was sure and ready to make her move. Getting dressed up, putting on makeup the night before makes sense, too (some people care how they're found), and I think she may have said goodbye to dad that night, as well. The jewelry could have been given away to friends.

If she was murdered, I think the combination of drugs is odd. It would be much easier to get heroin or cocaine or meth on the streets, plus it would have had the added effect of looking like an overdose, making her look bad in the process (remember that book, Go Ask Alice?).

As for the stalking, I think there was a peeper who got scared away, then people got jumpy and imaginations went a little wild and accusations were made. Then I think the people accused (the police supposedly went and talked to them) may have gotten mad and decided to retaliate by being nuisances.

If that is what spurred the suicide, then I think they are partially responsible, but if that wasn't the reason she did it, then I don't think anyone should be blamed by providing her with a sleeping pill to help her sleep, not knowing what she was planning.

That's just one possibility that I'm leaning towards.

When you tell it like this, it sounds plausible. I'd like to know who besides Morgan's mother thinks they knew her well. For instance, her mom says Morgan had spent some time with big sister in California earlier in the year, June I think. Did Morgan share anything with her? How about Morgan's brother? She had friends - a boy 'C' and a boy 'D' and who else? Did she have a close gf or two? What about her ballet teacher? What does she think regarding the COD being suicide? What was the status of her relationships with the boys? Had she been hurt/rejected recently?

Her mom says Morgan had plans for her future. Really, or are those mom's wishes and topics that were only discussed but not really Morgan's plans at all? In other words, whose plans were they? Morgan wanted to have a backup plan as a yoga instructor versus rushing ahead academically towards law school. There's a slight disconnect there imo. Was Morgan really academically adrift and feeling like she was letting her parents down? Who was Morgan? Not mom's version but Morgan's version? What was the last book she read from cover to cover? Did she keep a journal? What test does a seven year old take that shows they are writing at college level?* Why was the test administered? What did Morgan do with that gift? Mom says she wrote three novels/books and they are on her computer. Did Morgan ever submit them to a publisher? Was she proud of them? Did she think they were good? In other words, did Morgan suffer from low self esteem despite her many gifts?

Had Morgan done anything that she was ashamed of that could have set the stalker into motion? I'm reaching here for something, some reason a smart and beautiful young woman who could dance wearing toe shoes would be suicidal at twenty years old. Someone must have a clue but if they don't, I can't understand a suicide COD.

Did she feel lonely despite her activities?

*I'm really curious about this one. Did Morgan develop her writing skills over the years? Did she enjoy expressing herself through writing like her mother does?

 

[SmoothOperator]

I requested of the Sheriff’s Detective that she be checked for possible injections and he assured me that this is always done. I have since learned that hiding an injection point is a simple matter, an innocent observation of Morgan at her viewing revealed that if an inspection for injections points was even undertaken at all, it was very cursory at best.

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1207

I wanted to get another opinion on what exactly Toni is referring to or speaking of in the above snipped quote, even more specifically the portion above BBM..

I realize she is speaking of possible methods such as injection as a means of administering any/all of the Rx meds found to be in Morgan's system..but am curious as to what she could mean in the BBM stating that at Morgan's viewing(obviously having taken place prior to her being cremated)..at the viewing either herself or someone else noted that by looking at Morgans body at that time they were of the opinion that if an exam had been done of Morgans body for possible injection sites that the exam would have been cursory at best..

Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on what possibly they could have noticed of noted about the condition of Morgans body at the viewing that would have left someone with the impression that a thorough examination of the body for visuals such as an injection site(s) would not have been possible or likely to have occurred?

Whatever could give someone or leave someone with an impression that a thorough visual exam and search of the body was not likely to have happened and that if it did happen it would have been cursory at best ??

This probably is meaningless but it did intrigue me as to whatever could it be that would have been noticed about the condition or state of Morgan's body at the viewing that would lead someone to believe it would have been impossible for there to have been a thorough visual exam and search of the body for details such as possible injection site(s)?

I just cannot for the life of me think of what that could be ?.. I suppose I could post my question to her in the comment section but again its likely quite meaningless and am hoping one of you guys will just point out the obvious that I'm just totally missing here:doh:

 

[rollinginit]

:seeya:
Please: I am new too, posted some posts, not many. I keep reiterating how I feel: We need EVIDENCE instead of making suppositions based on one source. But now I have a VERY SINCERE QUESTION THAT I REALLY HOPE ONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER: IF we had access to the original toxi results/lab results, is there anyone on WS who is CERTIFIED to medically interpret the results correctly?
Thanks very much!:blushing:

There are MANY people on ws that are certified/verified. I've seen them reading this thread, but so far they have chosen not to answer yet. They may be waiting for more information.

You can check the verified thread.. It list all the ws members that are checked in their profession.

 

[fowltemptress]

Weren't Flexeril and Dalamane the only drugs found in the gastric contents? And the ami was found in the blood test? Ami is the only one with a transdermal gel available but use that intranasally and BAM! Quick high dose, rapidly absorbed, and not left in the gastric contents...JMO though, once again, I'm not in a medical field. Just tossing out ideas that seem possible to my layman mind that I haven't seen proposed anywhere.

 

[mysterygirl]

No Smooth, I'm not sure what she is talking about....she would have to elaborate on that one.

 

[mysterygirl]

There are MANY people on ws that are certified/verified. I've seen them reading this thread, but so far they have chosen not to answer yet. They may be waiting for more information.

You can check the verified thread.. It list all the ws members that are checked in their profession.

Do we have a toxicologist?

 

[Cazzie]

When you tell it like this, it sounds plausible. I'd like to know who besides Morgan's mother thinks they knew her well. For instance, her mom says Morgan had spent some time with big sister in California earlier in the year, June I think. Did Morgan share anything with her? How about Morgan's brother? She had friends - a boy 'C' and a boy 'D' and who else? Did she have a close gf or two? What about her ballet teacher? What does she think regarding the COD being suicide? What was the status of her relationships with the boys? Had she been hurt/rejected recently?

Her mom says Morgan had plans for her future. Really, or are those mom's wishes and topics that were only discussed but not really Morgan's plans at all? In other words, whose plans were they? Morgan wanted to have a backup plan as a yoga instructor versus rushing ahead academically towards law school. There's a slight disconnect there imo. Was Morgan really academically adrift and feeling like she was letting her parents down? Who was Morgan? Not mom's version but Morgan's version? What was the last book she read from cover to cover? Did she keep a journal? What test does a seven year old take that shows they are writing at college level?* Why was the test administered? What did Morgan do with that gift? Mom says she wrote three novels/books and they are on her computer. Did Morgan ever submit them to a publisher? Was she proud of them? Did she think they were good? In other words, did Morgan suffer from low self esteem despite her many gifts?

Had Morgan done anything that she was ashamed of that could have set the stalker into motion? I'm reaching here for something, some reason a smart and beautiful young woman who could dance wearing toe shoes would be suicidal at twenty years old. Someone must have a clue but if they don't, I can't understand a suicide COD.

Did she feel lonely despite her activities?

*I'm really curious about this one. Did Morgan develop her writing skills over the years? Did she enjoy expressing herself through writing like her mother does?

I haven't read any of Morgan's writings except her blog (linked on the blog we're discussing and ditto for some brief mentions there).

From what we've been shown (not just told), Morgan was a gifted artist (not "just" photography). Many (most? all?) are gifted in more than one genre. So I would love to read Morgan's writings.

I don't mean to ignore all your great questions...just quick-posting.

 

[rollinginit]

Heres the list for vertified posters

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92609"]Professional Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[MayraMM]

When you tell it like this, it sounds plausible. I'd like to know who besides Morgan's mother thinks they knew her well. For instance, her mom says Morgan had spent some time with big sister in California earlier in the year, June I think. Did Morgan share anything with her? How about Morgan's brother? She had friends - a boy 'C' and a boy 'D' and who else? Did she have a close gf or two? What about her ballet teacher? What does she think regarding the COD being suicide? What was the status of her relationships with the boys? Had she been hurt/rejected recently?

Her mom says Morgan had plans for her future. Really, or are those mom's wishes and topics that were only discussed but not really Morgan's plans at all? In other words, whose plans were they? Morgan wanted to have a backup plan as a yoga instructor versus rushing ahead academically towards law school. There's a slight disconnect there imo. Was Morgan really academically adrift and feeling like she was letting her parents down? Who was Morgan? Not mom's version but Morgan's version? What was the last book she read from cover to cover? Did she keep a journal? What test does a seven year old take that shows they are writing at college level?* Why was the test administered? What did Morgan do with that gift? Mom says she wrote three novels/books and they are on her computer. Did Morgan ever submit them to a publisher? Was she proud of them? Did she think they were good? In other words, did Morgan suffer from low self esteem despite her many gifts?

Had Morgan done anything that she was ashamed of that could have set the stalker into motion? I'm reaching here for something, some reason a smart and beautiful young woman who could dance wearing toe shoes would be suicidal at twenty years old. Someone must have a clue but if they don't, I can't understand a suicide COD.

Did she feel lonely despite her activities?

*I'm really curious about this one. Did Morgan develop her writing skills over the years? Did she enjoy expressing herself through writing like her mother does?

She had lived for years with chronic abdominal pain and the after-effects of the CO poisoning, including the cognitive impairment (which, again, contradicts some of mom's claims of her accomplishments -- M may have felt inadequate). She was finally put on 25 mg of ami, which seemed to control her symptoms (all this, of course, per mom). When she turned 18, she took herself off the medication. Perhaps she found it too sedating, didn't want to be tied down by meds, or just didn't like how they made her feel. If the meds were controlling her pain, then it stands to reason being off the medication could have caused a relapse. Here she is young, wanting to be healthy, and either in pain or on medication. Maybe neither option was acceptable to her. We'll never know, unless, as you state, she confided in someone or kept a journal of some sort.

I like your question about the last book she read.

And I, too, would like to know if her friends felt she commit suicide or was killed. Their silence is deafening.

 

[mysterygirl]

Does anyone know if the ranch behind her house had drugs stored on the premises or had any type of theft?

 

[Cazzie]

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1207

I wanted to get another opinion on what exactly Toni is referring to or speaking of in the above snipped quote, even more specifically the portion above BBM..

I realize she is speaking of possible methods such as injection as a means of administering any/all of the Rx meds found to be in Morgan's system..but am curious as to what she could mean in the BBM stating that at Morgan's viewing(obviously having taken place prior to her being cremated)..at the viewing either herself or someone else noted that by looking at Morgans body at that time they were of the opinion that if an exam had been done of Morgans body for possible injection sites that the exam would have been cursory at best..

Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on what possibly they could have noticed of noted about the condition of Morgans body at the viewing that would have left someone with the impression that a thorough examination of the body for visuals such as an injection site(s) would not have been possible or likely to have occurred?

Whatever could give someone or leave someone with an impression that a thorough visual exam and search of the body was not likely to have happened and that if it did happen it would have been cursory at best ??

This probably is meaningless but it did intrigue me as to whatever could it be that would have been noticed about the condition or state of Morgan's body at the viewing that would lead someone to believe it would have been impossible for there to have been a thorough visual exam and search of the body for details such as possible injection site(s)?

I just cannot for the life of me think of what that could be ?.. I suppose I could post my question to her in the comment section but again its likely quite meaningless and am hoping one of you guys will just point out the obvious that I'm just totally missing here:doh:

Could she be referring to a family member noticing that 3 of Morgan's fingernails were either cut or torn?

And her nail polish wasn't removed (I think?), and Herding Cats, here, has pointed that out as a potential item of concern.

That could be it...

 

[MelissaDawn]

http://morganingram.com/wordpress/?p=1207

I wanted to get another opinion on what exactly Toni is referring to or speaking of in the above snipped quote, even more specifically the portion above BBM..

I realize she is speaking of possible methods such as injection as a means of administering any/all of the Rx meds found to be in Morgan's system..but am curious as to what she could mean in the BBM stating that at Morgan's viewing(obviously having taken place prior to her being cremated)..at the viewing either herself or someone else noted that by looking at Morgans body at that time they were of the opinion that if an exam had been done of Morgans body for possible injection sites that the exam would have been cursory at best..

Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts on what possibly they could have noticed of noted about the condition of Morgans body at the viewing that would have left someone with the impression that a thorough examination of the body for visuals such as an injection site(s) would not have been possible or likely to have occurred?

Whatever could give someone or leave someone with an impression that a thorough visual exam and search of the body was not likely to have happened and that if it did happen it would have been cursory at best ??

This probably is meaningless but it did intrigue me as to whatever could it be that would have been noticed about the condition or state of Morgan's body at the viewing that would lead someone to believe it would have been impossible for there to have been a thorough visual exam and search of the body for details such as possible injection site(s)?

I just cannot for the life of me think of what that could be ?.. I suppose I could post my question to her in the comment section but again its likely quite meaningless and am hoping one of you guys will just point out the obvious that I'm just totally missing here:doh:

My guess as to what this is referring to is the fingernails. Mom said somewhere on the blog that 3 of M's fingernails were cut or torn at an angle. From there mom says she either asked the ME about it or read in the original autopsy that there were no odd fingernail findings (mucho paraphrasing on my part). Someone told her it could have happened in transporting the body from ME to funeral home, or at the funeral home. I think mom is thinking the injection may have been into the tip of a finger and that because the nails weren't clipped they would have missed that.

 

[rollinginit]

Do we have a toxicologist?

Not sure.....but we have had some nurses post plus an attorney....and they regularly post. (sorry if I forgot anybody)

 

[mysterygirl]

Hey!

It just hit me. I wonder if Morgan's mom has any left over hairbrushes that Morgan used.

Your hair holds results for months and she could have it tested for substances!

 

[ChunkyMonkey]

Exactly. There is no scenario that makes sense to have that mixture of drugs in such a high dose in one's system.

So IMO the drugs are just weird no matter if you think M was murdered or M killed herself or accidentally ODed.

This is exactly why it feels to me like an accident. I can't picture that the suspect would take the time to do all the research to find a drug coctail that cooincidentally contained at least one drug that could be found in the I's home, and knew exactly how to sneak in undetected and force her to inject it or shoot her up. It's so calculated, and I just don't see a young kid pulling this off. This is JMO.

Likewise, I can't picture M, a bright, sweet girl with a loving family purposely do this to herself. I know she was stressed, and I know sometimes life is tougher for the "perfect" ones, but I just can't see her doing this. (Note: please don't flame me for calling her "perfect." I know no one is perfect, but to her parents and seemingly to a lot of people, she was an amazing kid.)

The only thing left, to me, was that it was a tragic accident.

 

[mysterygirl]

Not sure.....but we have had some nurses post plus an attorney....and they regularly post. (sorry if I forgot anybody)

I see a chemist/pharmacologist on that list.....could be helpful.

 

[marycarney]

From wiki article 'tricyclic antidepressant overdose' (and the reference articles in the footnotes are well-respected, peer-reviewed medical journals)
Tricyclics have a narrow therapeutic index, i.e., the therapeutic dose is close to the toxic dose.[3] In the medical literature the lowest reported toxic dose is 6.7 mg per kg body weight. Although there are differences in toxicity with the drug class, ingestions of 10 to 20 mg per kilogram of body weight are a risk for moderate to severe poisoning, however, doses ranging from 1.5 to 5 mg/kg may even present a risk. Most poison control centers refer any case of TCA poisoning (especially in children) to a hospital for monitoring.[5] Factors that increase the risk of toxicity include advancing age, cardiac status, and concomitant use of other drugs.[6] However, serum drug levels are not useful for evaluating risk of arrhythmia or seizure in tricyclic overdose.[7]

So, assuming Morgan weighed in the neighborhood of 50kg, a dose of only 75 to 250 mg. MAY have caused a fatal arrhythmia. I am trying to track down some other info - but I believe that the toxicology report would have reported blood levels in nanograms per DECIliter - not millimeter. VERY different - and would change a lot about the coroner's report as reported per mom.