ScotsPaddy
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Just a quick THANKS to all the posters in this thread,i have been reading all the posts but keep forgetting to press the 'thanks' button..
From wiki article 'tricyclic antidepressant overdose' (and the reference articles in the footnotes are well-respected, peer-reviewed medical journals)
Tricyclics have a narrow therapeutic index, i.e., the therapeutic dose is close to the toxic dose.[3] In the medical literature the lowest reported toxic dose is 6.7 mg per kg body weight. Although there are differences in toxicity with the drug class, ingestions of 10 to 20 mg per kilogram of body weight are a risk for moderate to severe poisoning, however, doses ranging from 1.5 to 5 mg/kg may even present a risk. Most poison control centers refer any case of TCA poisoning (especially in children) to a hospital for monitoring.[5] Factors that increase the risk of toxicity include advancing age, cardiac status, and concomitant use of other drugs.[6] However, serum drug levels are not useful for evaluating risk of arrhythmia or seizure in tricyclic overdose.[7]
So, assuming Morgan weighed in the neighborhood of 50kg, a dose of only 75 to 250 mg. MAY have caused a fatal arrhythmia. I am trying to track down some other info - but I believe that the toxicology report would have reported blood levels in nanograms per DECIliter - not millimeter. VERY different - and would change a lot about the coroner's report as reported per mom.
From wiki article 'tricyclic antidepressant overdose' (and the reference articles in the footnotes are well-respected, peer-reviewed medical journals)
Tricyclics have a narrow therapeutic index, i.e., the therapeutic dose is close to the toxic dose.[3] In the medical literature the lowest reported toxic dose is 6.7 mg per kg body weight. Although there are differences in toxicity with the drug class, ingestions of 10 to 20 mg per kilogram of body weight are a risk for moderate to severe poisoning, however, doses ranging from 1.5 to 5 mg/kg may even present a risk. Most poison control centers refer any case of TCA poisoning (especially in children) to a hospital for monitoring.[5] Factors that increase the risk of toxicity include advancing age, cardiac status, and concomitant use of other drugs.[6] However, serum drug levels are not useful for evaluating risk of arrhythmia or seizure in tricyclic overdose.[7]
So, assuming Morgan weighed in the neighborhood of 50kg, a dose of only 75 to 250 mg. MAY have caused a fatal arrhythmia. I am trying to track down some other info - but I believe that the toxicology report would have reported blood levels in nanograms per DECIliter - not millimeter. VERY different - and would change a lot about the coroner's report as reported per mom.
Hey!
It just hit me. I wonder if Morgan's mom has any left over hairbrushes that Morgan used.
Your hair holds results for months and she could have it tested for substances!
She had lived for years with chronic abdominal pain and the after-effects of the CO poisoning, including the cognitive impairment (which, again, contradicts some of mom's claims of her accomplishments -- M may have felt inadequate). She was finally put on 25 mg of ami, which seemed to control her symptoms (all this, of course, per mom). When she turned 18, she took herself off the medication. Perhaps she found it too sedating, didn't want to be tied down by meds, or just didn't like how they made her feel. If the meds were controlling her pain, then it stands to reason being off the medication could have caused a relapse. Here she is young, wanting to be healthy, and either in pain or on medication. Maybe neither option was acceptable to her. We'll never know, unless, as you state, she confided in someone or kept a journal of some sort.
I like your question about the last book she read.
And I, too, would like to know if her friends felt she commit suicide or was killed. Their silence is deafening.
Hey!
It just hit me. I wonder if Morgan's mom has any left over hairbrushes that Morgan used.
Your hair holds results for months and she could have it tested for substances!
I still think it's possible somebody slipped into her room and chloroformed her. Then stuck a long tube down her throat of all their grounded up medicine. Or maybe even held a gun or knife to her throat, threathing her if she screamed. Stayed around to make sure everything was taken care of...then slipped out the door. All bc they were scared of her talking to the LE the next week.
JMO! JMO! JMO! JMO
Mom says that she still has everything in a bag....bedcover, hairbrush. Etc....
BBM.Forced by threat with gun/knife, possible. To have stuck a tube down her throat though, unless they were skilled at intubating people that would leave definite signs of throat trauma that would have been discovered on autopsy.
She had lived for years with chronic abdominal pain and the after-effects of the CO poisoning, including the cognitive impairment (which, again, contradicts some of mom's claims of her accomplishments -- M may have felt inadequate). She was finally put on 25 mg of ami, which seemed to control her symptoms (all this, of course, per mom). When she turned 18, she took herself off the medication. Perhaps she found it too sedating, didn't want to be tied down by meds, or just didn't like how they made her feel. If the meds were controlling her pain, then it stands to reason being off the medication could have caused a relapse. Here she is young, wanting to be healthy, and either in pain or on medication. Maybe neither option was acceptable to her. We'll never know, unless, as you state, she confided in someone or kept a journal of some sort.
I like your question about the last book she read.
And I, too, would like to know if her friends felt she commit suicide or was killed. Their silence is deafening.
BBM.
Or should have been?
Why don't they have those items independently tested? I mean, I certainly would if I were in their position - that alone could be grounds enough for reopening the case.
I was unaware that questions were being deleted on the blog.
Is there a particular reason? Were they offensive or accusatory?
I'm really curious about this.
:seeya:
Please: I am new too, posted some posts, not many. I keep reiterating how I feel: We need EVIDENCE instead of making suppositions based on one source. But now I have a VERY SINCERE QUESTION THAT I REALLY HOPE ONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER: IF we had access to the original toxi results/lab results, is there anyone on WS who is CERTIFIED to medically interpret the results correctly?
Thanks very much!:blushing:
OK - according to the Mayo Clinical Medical Laboratory - you ADD TOGETHER the amitriptyline and nortriptyline levels - anything over 1000 nanograms per milliliter is considered 'toxic' - in other words, capable of causing lethal arrhythmia.
And I verified it IS measured in nanograms per milliliter.
A therapeutic dosage is 80-200 nanograms per milliliter. And so, only five times a therapeutic dose can be fatal. So, rather than 50+ pills......... it would be a much, much lower number, possibly only 5-10.
Source: http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/500509