Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #10

[Isabelle]

I had stepped away from the thread while I was away for Christmas and New Year's. I'm not sure if it has been posted here but I think the following is important to note:

The following report from Pete Williams of NBC News (IMO one of the more credible journalists working this story) has learned from federal and state authorities that no assault rifle was used in the shooting and in fact, they only recovered 4 hand guns from inside the school:

<modsnip>

This information raises a lot of questions... Thoughts?

How did AL manage to fire as many rounds as was claimed (100 or so) with hand guns and not be stopped? They have to be reloaded, don't they? Am not very gun savvy.

 

[Lois Lane]

I had stepped away from the thread while I was away for Christmas and New Year's. I'm not sure if it has been posted here but I think the following is important to note:

The following report from Pete Williams of NBC News (IMO one of the more credible journalists working this story) has learned from federal and state authorities that no assault rifle was used in the shooting and in fact, they only recovered 4 hand guns from inside the school:

<modsnip>

This information raises a lot of questions... Thoughts?

Williams was reporting bad information.

Connecticut State Police Lt. J. Paul Vance, speaking at an afternoon news conference, said "the weapon that was utilized most of the time during the crime was a [.223 caliber] Bushmaster rifle."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-visit-conn-town-reeling-from-school-shooting

Vance went on to say that a Bushmaster AR-15 assault type weapon was used against most of Lanza&#8217;s victims. That weapon had high capacity magazines. In addition to that, Lanza had in his possession Glock 10 mm and Sig Sauer 9 mm. All weapons had multiple magazines and additional ammunition. The fourth weapon recovered was from the suspect&#8217;s vehicle that was parked outside of the school.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/1...d-against-most-of-lanzas-victims/#more-100531

a. Williams was reporting bad information, or

b. Vance is lying

My thoughts?

a. is logical

b. requires a CT

 

[FrayedKnot]

Assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rifles that meet most of these criteria, but not all, are technically not assault rifles despite frequently being considered as such. For example, semi-automatic-only rifles like the AR-15 (which the M16 rifle is based on) that share designs with assault rifles are not assault rifles, as they are not capable of switching to automatic fire and thus are not selective fire capable. Belt-fed weapons or rifles with fixed magazines are likewise not assault rifles because they do not have detachable box magazines.

The term "assault rifle" is often more loosely used for commercial or political reasons to include other types of arms, particularly arms that fall under a strict definition of the battle rifle, or semi-automatic variant of military rifles such as AR-15s.

The US Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."[7]

bbm, Like I said.

Oh, well, I used a dictionary for the definition I proffered. I am not a big believer in the veracity of Wikipedia.

I did read in another site that there are no legal definitions for "assault rifle" however, so that may be the sort of thing that could be examined by lawmakers.

 

[Footwarrior]

I had stepped away from the thread while I was away for Christmas and New Year's. I'm not sure if it has been posted here but I think the following is important to note:

The following report from Pete Williams of NBC News (IMO one of the more credible journalists working this story) has learned from federal and state authorities that no assault rifle was used in the shooting and in fact, they only recovered 4 hand guns from inside the school:

<modsnip>

This information raises a lot of questions... Thoughts?

Early reports in high profile investigations are often wrong, even information reporters get directly from law enforcement sources. This creates fodder for people who like to build conspiracy theories. Later reports from official sources have identified the precise make and model of each gun found at the scene, in the car trunk and at AL's home. The medical examiner has matched these firearms to the wounds found in all 28 deceased persons. We know that all 26 victims at Sandy Hook were killed with the Bushmaster, the shooter killed himself with one of the handguns and that the shooter's mother was killed with a .22 rifle that was never taken to the school.

 

[HastingsChi]

Early reports in high profile investigations are often wrong, even information reporters get directly from law enforcement sources. This creates fodder for people who like to build conspiracy theories. Later reports from official sources have identified the precise make and model of each gun found at the scene, in the car trunk and at AL's home. The medical examiner has matched these firearms to the wounds found in all 28 deceased persons. We know that all 26 victims at Sandy Hook were killed with the Bushmaster, the shooter killed himself with one of the handguns and that the shooter's mother was killed with a .22 rifle that was never taken to the school.

Thanks for your reply.

The NBC story I shared is not an early report; it aired a couple days before Christmas. Pete Williams is a credible journalist whose national law enforcement reporting is regarded as best in class; he's not one with a history of throwing rumors into his reports but takes pride in using multiple sources to confirm info before going to air (a rarity in today's media). He's also served as president of more than one journalist association. IMO this is an important, credible piece of journalism and Pete Williams has not retracted or revised his report.

 

[HastingsChi]

How did AL manage to fire as many rounds as was claimed (100 or so) with hand guns and not be stopped? They have to be reloaded, don't they? Am not very gun savvy.

Thanks for your reply.

To answer your questions you raise:I have no idea. Honestly I'm not knowledgeable on firearms or any weaponry for that matter.

I hold Pete Williams in high regard which is why I've shared the information here.

 

[HastingsChi]

Williams was reporting bad information.



http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...-visit-conn-town-reeling-from-school-shooting



http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/1...d-against-most-of-lanzas-victims/#more-100531

a. Williams was reporting bad information, or

b. Vance is lying

My thoughts?

a. is logical

b. requires a CT

Thanks for your reply. I'll note the reporting you've linked to is prior to Pete Williams' report. The only thing I'm suggesting is that I find Pete Williams to be an old school, credible journalist who doesn't play loosey goosey with the facts.

 

[popsicle]

I had stepped away from the thread while I was away for Christmas and New Year's. I'm not sure if it has been posted here but I think the following is important to note:

The following report from Pete Williams of NBC News (IMO one of the more credible journalists working this story) has learned from federal and state authorities that no assault rifle was used in the shooting and in fact, they only recovered 4 hand guns from inside the school:

<modsnip>

This information raises a lot of questions... Thoughts?

And so the children who told the retired psychologist that the killer had a big gun and a small gun, he doesn't know what he was talking about?

 

[HastingsChi]

And so the children who told the retired psychologist that the killer had a big gun and a small gun, he doesn't know what he was talking about?

Thanks for your reply.

I am not suggesting that. I have made no opinion about the information I've highlighted via Pete Williams report. The only thing I've been vocal about is Pete Williams long history of: best in class reporting, strong credibility and dedication to being a role model & mentor for those in his profession.

 

[i.b.nora]

The YouTube you linked to does not identify the time and day of the Pete Williams broadcast that it included.

On the other hand, this NBC video of a Pete Williams broadcast report was late in the day of the shooting. I believe the YouTube snip was snipped from the end of this video. And, there are obvious errors in his reporting. We know that now. So what?

NBCNews.com Video Player

 

[HastingsChi]

The YouTube you linked to does not identify the time and day of the Pete Williams broadcast that it included.

On the other hand, this NBC video of a Pete Williams broadcast report was late in the day of the shooting. I believe the YouTube snip was snipped from the end of this video.

NBCNews.com Video Player

Like I said it aired a couple days before Christmas; Google it.

I linked to a YouTube version of the report so folks here could easily access it (thought it would be embedded)... I watched it on the nbc news site but was trying to share a more convenient method for folks here to watch.

 

[Lois Lane]

Thanks for your reply.

The NBC story I shared is not an early report; it aired a couple days before Christmas. Pete Williams is a credible journalist whose national law enforcement reporting is regarded as best in class; he's not one with a history of throwing rumors into his reports but takes pride in using multiple sources to confirm info before going to air (a rarity in today's media). He's also served as president of more than one journalist association. IMO this is an important, credible piece of journalism and Pete Williams has not retracted or revised his report.

Early reporting (Dec. 15) from Pete Williams and NBC:

15
Dec
2012
8:09am, EST

By Tracy Connor and Pete Williams, NBC News
UPDATED 3:21 p.m. ET:

Law enforcement officials gave out conflicting details about what type of weapons Lanza had.

At one point, they told NBC News Lanza had four handguns while he stalked the halls of Sandy Hook, but that could not be confirmed. It appears he carried at least two 9mm handguns – and a rifle was also found at the scene.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...an-forced-his-way-into-school-police-say?lite

Reported by NBC's Michael Isikoff on Dec. 18:

The sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that Nancy Lanza, who friends described as a gun enthusiast, purchased the weapons legally over a three-year period, beginning in 2010 with a Bushmaster XM-15 .223-caliber semi-automatic assault-style rifle -- the weapon that authorities say 20-year-old Adam Lanza used to mow down the victims in Friday’s rampage.

Michael Isikoff is NBC News national investigative correspondent; NBC News’ Justice Correspondent Pete Williams also contributed to this report.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...purchases-in-connecticut-school-shooting?lite

Williams does not have a perfect record when it comes to early reporting of this story.

NBC News Justice Correspondent Pete Williams was furiously covering the Newtown tragedy on Friday afternoon. Even so, he and his colleagues were among the “last” to report the bad information that Ryan Lanza was the author of the Sandy Hook Elementary School rampage, says Williams.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...newss-pete-williams-explains-ryan-adam-mixup/

 

[Lois Lane]

More early reporting attributed to Pete Williams:

Connecticut elementary school massacre: 26 dead, including 20 children
Clare Kim and Sarah Muller
3:24 pm on 12/14/2012

NBC’s Pete Williams has been told by several law enforcement officials that the gunman’s mother, a teacher at the Connecticut school, was found dead at the school.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/12/14/connecticut-elementary-school-massacre-26-dead-including-18-children/

 

[Lois Lane]

If folks have questions about Pete Williams reporting or would like to address your issues with his credibility, why not contact him directly: https://twitter.com/PeteWilliamsNBC

Not necessary as far as I'm concerned and I'm not dissing him, either.

Bad reporting happened; Williams was by no means the only one afflicted.

His information conflicts with that from Lt. Vance and the medical examiner.

I'm going with the official information.

Some folks are running with the other information, though.

I googled it.

 

[Elley Mae]

The YouTube you linked to does not identify the time and day of the Pete Williams broadcast that it included.

On the other hand, this NBC video of a Pete Williams broadcast report was late in the day of the shooting. I believe the YouTube snip was snipped from the end of this video. And, there are obvious errors in his reporting. We know that now. So what?

NBCNews.com Video Player

I see this video as a hack job, it is edited big time. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9xQUdNUB0E&feature=youtu.be

This is the video I was referring to

 

[joypath]

For what it is worth: The bodies of the victims within the school (EXCLUDING the shooter himself!) had multiple gunshot wounds. Members of the OCME are capable of identifying the differences that occur based on shooter's choice of weaponry. Wounds were caused by the Bushmaster AR-15 vs the hand guns present.

Damage to the bodies of these victims was significant as confirmed by H. Wayne Carver, M. D. in his extremely RARE press conference. He spoke specifically regarding the 7 posts he had performed; his words resonated the situation that ALL autopsies presented to the pathologists & staff present @ Farmington even though they did not speak to the press themselves (nor were they!!!). BTW: prior to performing the posts, staff were aware that multiple weapons were present @ the death/crime scene.


http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/12/15/ct-medical-examiner-victims-were-all-shot-more-than-once/

Just for the sake of a memory jolt, scroll down to the video on the above link. What you see is a forensic pathologist presenting information ex temp., not grandstanding ('tho he could!) but "semi-testifying" to the data he had the absolute authority to present, not extrapolating & over-stepping into other areas, even when it was/is obvious that he has a command of the knowledge/facts/data.

:blushing: MOO :blushing:

 

[FragileSugar]

‘Adopt a Newtown Cop’ campaign launched by yoga studio for Sandy Hook’s traumatized first responders

Police officers who were traumatized by the horrific scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., last month and are now running out of paid sick and vacation time may soon be getting some financial help from an unlikely source: a yoga studio.

Linda Antignani, founder of Mother's Embrace Yoga in nearby Shelton, Conn., contacted the Newtown Police Dept. to ask what she could do to help after hearing about officers who have been unable to work in the wake of the Dec. 14 massacre, when a gunman opened fire, killing 20 children and 6 adults. The result: an "Adopt a Cop" fund benefiting the traumatized officers.

According to the union representing the officers, those suffering from post-traumatic stress are not entitled to worker's compensation benefits under the current town statute and have been forced to use sick and vacation time.
...

JMO - After reading the interview of Veronique Pozner, I have been haunted by the mental images of the wounds little Noah sustained. I cannot imagine seeing it firsthand and my heart goes out to those that did. God bless the first responders.

 

[Lois Lane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9xQUdNUB0E&feature=youtu.be

This is the video I was referring to

The cited "sources" in About the video says it all for me.

CT

MOO

 

[SwampMama]

‘Adopt a Newtown Cop’ campaign launched by yoga studio for Sandy Hook’s traumatized first responders

Police officers who were traumatized by the horrific scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., last month and are now running out of paid sick and vacation time may soon be getting some financial help from an unlikely source: a yoga studio.

Linda Antignani, founder of Mother's Embrace Yoga in nearby Shelton, Conn., contacted the Newtown Police Dept. to ask what she could do to help after hearing about officers who have been unable to work in the wake of the Dec. 14 massacre, when a gunman opened fire, killing 20 children and 6 adults. The result: an "Adopt a Cop" fund benefiting the traumatized officers.

According to the union representing the officers, those suffering from post-traumatic stress are not entitled to worker's compensation benefits under the current town statute and have been forced to use sick and vacation time.
...

JMO - After reading the interview of Veronique Pozner, I have been haunted by the mental images of the wounds little Noah sustained. I cannot imagine seeing it firsthand and my heart goes out to those that did. God bless the first responders.

Thanks so much for addressing this issue. As the fiance of a first responder who experienced the worst of Katrina and then spent months afterwards recovering bodies, I saw firsthand how this affected him. First responders have the "can handle anything" attitude and are often able to deal with the tragedies with the comfort of knowing about the ones they were able to help and save. But there wasn't anything they could do in this situation and believe me, it hurts them and will forever scar them. Especially since it involved children.

First responders are motivated to help people in the tragic and most gruesome of situations because they care so much. They may seem tough and are able to compartmentalize their feelings while getting the job done, but later, when it is over, the tragedy and horror they experienced can creep up on them and overwhelm them.

Especially in their sleep. Your sleep should be the one time when you can shake off the horrors of real life and get some some restoring rest but not for those with PTSD. They may start to avoid sleep because they know that they will be confronted with images they would rather forget or will relive situations that they can't escape from.

How sad that these first responders aren't given compassionate leave. How ironic that their mental health is not considered a genuine health issue in a situation where proper mental illness care might have prevented this situation from happening in the first place.

First responders and their families in New Orleans after Katrina were offered a week or two of leave along with free plane tickets and accommodations to different cities. My late fiance took this leave so he could attend the funeral of his father (who died of cancer, not in Katrina). It was immensely helpful for him to get the "geographic cure" to get away from New Orleans and to be surrounded by his family.

I hope that something is done to help the first responders because they need our support right now. All to often, they are the forgotten victims in tragedies like this.