Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen-#4

[Tugela]

JMO, I think it's pretty pointless to argue about whether autism etc. are mental illnesses or neurological. The whole distinction between mental disorders and neurological/other physical diseases is a remnant of an older age of thinking when it was thought that there were diseases of the body and diseases of the mind where they couldn't find any underlying body pathology. But the more we learn about diseases and disorders the more we find that there are physiological factors in mental illness and mental factors in neurological illness. The line is going to become more and more blurred imo.



http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/178/6/490.full

Autism is NOT a mental illness. It is a developmental difference that occurrs in some people. It is no different from being very tall or very short.

There is a whole graduation in the population from severe (the equivalent of being a dwarf for example) all the way to the center of human behaviour.

There is no clear cut off and there is no organic basis for it. So it is not a disease.

What does happen however is that because these people behave differently from most, they tend to be come socially isolated and that is what actually causes the anti-social behaviour sometimes seen.

 

[21merc7]

Oh man. Watching the 48 hours episode that Norwegian kindly linked for us earlier. I'm not one to usually cry about the crimes we read of here, but I am crying. No way you can watch it without doing so, especially Mr. Parker.

Link again for morning crew if you missed it:

48 Hours: Newtown - 48 Hours - CBS News

 

[~n/t~]

Not sure I totally agree with this but I suppose for some that already have an underlying mental disorder, I can see how these types of movies can perhaps cause them to "act out". But then I realize these movies are shown all over the world. The US is not the only country with mental health issues but yet mass murders occur in the US more than any other country (excluding wars and terrorists). I think that is the question people need to ask themselves.
IMO

New York - Hollywood has responded to the rampage at a Connecticut elementary school by pulling back on its offerings, and one star says the entertainment industry should take some responsibility for such violence.

Jamie Foxx, one of the industry's biggest stars, said on Saturday as he promoted Quentin Tarantino's upcoming ultra-violent spaghetti Western-style film about slavery, "Django Unchained", that actors can't ignore the fact that movie violence can influence people.

"We cannot turn our back and say that violence in films or anything that we do doesn't have a sort of influence," Foxx said in an interview on Saturday. "It does."

more at the link

http://www.channel24.co.za/News/International/Hollywood-reacts-to-tragic-US-shooting-20121216

 

[Ruby Sue]

IMO, all the pictures of AL shows that he had sanpaku eyes.

I agree with you for the black and white versions of the photos. However, I saw a color version on MSNBC and it looks like the lips? of his lower eyelids are just wide.

 

[Trident]

ITA.
However poorly they were treated, kicking them out on the street clearly is not a correct answer. I personally think the goal of this was to save money. It's extremely expensive to keep these people in the hospital long term.

There is no reason it should be. I've seen pics, talked to people, people who were once employed there, about the institutions/building left to decay after the patients were let out on the streets.

What does it take to keep/help the mentally ill? It takes food, drugs, linen, staff, janitorial services, and more that I haven't even thought of. However, it is more expensive to care for the mentally ill than it does to care for the thousands on death rows all over the country? How about the ones inprisoned for trifling drug crimes?

I could run a mental health institution once the corruption was weeded out. In my opinion someone made a fortune off the backs of our mentally ill. Now they are doing it off the prison system which destroys more lives than it helps.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel very strongly about mental health, and drug laws, and the crime of stealing from the public.

God, this whole thing is awful, sad, but maybe it points up where we, the common citizens are going wrong - WE are allowing the PTB, elected or otherwise to DICTATE to us. You and me want change? Well, let's quit talking about it and do something.

I have no anger against the shooter. God knows what went on in his mind.

If you throw tomatoes, I will duck, and this is all my own opinion.

 

[rollinginit]

All these killers are just trying to out-do each other. It seems like they are trying to pick the places and victims that will be the Most shocking.

I don't know anything about metal issues, but one thing I have reconized thanks to working in the Movie theater thread....it does slowly become more apparent as more time goes on and information comes out, all these killers have some type of issue. Most don't just wake up and go kill people. With James Holmes you can clearly see where he was on a downward spiral months before his shooting.

Much love to all the families.

One of the sweet angels killed, her dad is a jazz musician. Here is the youtube video of him with his song."ana grace"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVkVYJUsuDM

Here's the article on Ana
http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_22201153

 

[~n/t~]

Can we start a thread to post names and pictures of the victims or was one already started? Sorry if this was already asked.

Here is a picture of Grace McDonnell.

Friends neighbours described Grace McDonnell as having eyes that were so blue and hair that was so blonde that they thought she looked like a 'little doll'.

RIP Beautiful Angel :rose:

http://www.theage.com.au/world/babysitter-pays-tribute-to-victim-grace-20121216-2bh6h.html

 

[~n/t~]

(Top row from left) Charlotte Bacon, Daniel Barden, Olivia Engel, Josephine Gay, Ana Marquez-Green. (Middle row from left) Dylan Hockley, Catherine Hubbard, Chase Kowalski, Jesse Lewis, James Mattioli. (Bottom row from left) Grace McDonnell, Emilie Parker, Noah Pozner, Caroline Previdi, Jessica Rekos

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...school-shooting-full-list-of-the-victims.html

:rose:

 

[~n/t~]

Jesse Lewis and his daddy. :cry:

http://hinterlandgazette.com/tag/jesse-lewis-ana-marquez-greene-grace-mcdonnell-killed

:rose:

 

[Trident]

Can we start a thread to post names and pictures of the victims or was one already started? Sorry if this was already asked.

Here is a picture of Grace McDonnell.

Friends neighbours described Grace McDonnell as having eyes that were so blue and hair that was so blonde that they thought she looked like a 'little doll'.

RIP Beautiful Angel :rose:

http://www.theage.com.au/world/babysitter-pays-tribute-to-victim-grace-20121216-2bh6h.html

I think it should be a seperate thread. I cannot bear to see those beautiful faces again and again. A seperate thread would give a better venue, I believe.

 

[~n/t~]

Six-year-old Noah Pozner (pictured on Nov. 13, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Lanza-shot-child-11-times.html#ixzz2FCxhNs6E


:rose:

 

[~n/t~]

I think it should be a seperate thread. I cannot bear to see those beautiful faces again and again. A seperate thread would give a better venue, I believe.

Yes. I agree. I'll ask a mod to create one if one hasn't already.

 

[~n/t~]

Faces of innocence. :rose:

The daily mail has photos of the children.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Lanza-shot-child-11-times.html#ixzz2FCxhNs6E

 

[BunnyHop]

'Smartest person I ever knew'
'A genius'
I think he carried his brother's driving licence to ensure he implicated his brother in his plan and dragged him down with him.

I have a question, Ryan states he has not seen his brother since 2010,
So how did Adam get his ID? What ID did he have?

 

[Ricki]

Our brother's had schizophrenia for about 30 years...and some of you who have family members with a serious mental illness know what I'm talking about....you've been there

The challenge is keeping him on his meds

If he does'nt he calls friends telling them he's running for Congress or is the new IBM CEO ....which is the delusional side effects

Our large family have all pitched in, many have families of their own and we've had calls at 3am from his residence mgr telling us our brother's missing....so we've had to drive all over the neighborhood to find him...sometimes he's sleeping on a friend's front porch...other times he's AWOL for 2 days and we've called 911 for help to find him

To be honest we really don't know if he'll completely snap....

We don't have reason to think that now, he's not dangerous or inclined that way...

But experts told us this is always a possibility...and hearing this fact from an expert is makes us always feel like we're on "Red Alert"...or always be ready for something to go wrong

It's the unknown part of mental illness..which is scary, because we can never really feel free so to speak...But, we all love him, help him in any way possible...all of us act as his guardian so he can avoid the "free-fall" zone that sometimes happens with this disability

Brother in law is lives with this condition and it is very tough on my husband.
It is very hard to understand the paranoia(phones tapped, alleged person breaking into house and moving things on purpose, taking off not knowing where he is, not caring about hygiene, demanding) the list goes on. Getting to take his meds was difficult. Hubby had to hand him them. Brother in law t won't visit family or even let people inside his home...sometimes not even his case workers. He has attempted suicide on several occasions and has been hospitalized. They say he will get worse...never better. Thank God he now has a nurse, aids and a social worker that visit. It has taken an extreme load of DH who tried his hardest to tend to his brother while trying to take care of us at home.
They say that schizophrenics are more of a threat to themselves. This otherwise gentle man has had episodes of violence ..not to others but on his home such as the breaking of windows.
I don't know if the shooter had this illness but if he did his family had a lot to deal with besides his physcical condition.

 

[Donjeta]

Autism is NOT a mental illness. It is a developmental difference that occurrs in some people.

True, it's developmental.

It is no different from being very tall or very short.

It depends which perspective you look at it I guess. The difficulties caused by autism are certainly very different from the difficulties caused by being very tall or very short.

There is a whole graduation in the population from severe (the equivalent of being a dwarf for example) all the way to the
center of human behaviour.

True, it's a continuum.

There is no clear cut off

True. It's the same as in any other continuum state: it is a matter of definition and not always clear cut which cases fall into the normal spectrum and which are examples of a disorder.

and there is no organic basis for it.

Not true. Autistic behavior is a product of brain processes just as any other kind of behavior and brain processes are by definition organic. While we don't know everything about the autistic brain and the diagnosis is clinical at the moment, there is an increasing amount of research that illuminates differences in autistic brain development vs the normal brain development. I think we'll find out much more about it in the future.
Here's one example:
http://med.stanford.edu/ism/2011/september/menon.html

So it is not a disease.

Well, it's a philosophical question. What is the definition of disease? I already disagreed with you about one of your premises and while I agreed that autistic behavior falls on a continuum I'm going to disagree about the premise that it's not a disease if it's a continuum.

Why would we think that diseases can't fall on a continuum? It's not true imo. Lots of diseases are an extreme end of a continuum, it's not the case that all diseases are an on-off switch and nothing in between. Diabetes: blood glucose levels are a range of results. Some people at the other end are considered healthy, some at the other end are considered ill and others in the middle are somewhere in between health and illness. Hypertension: blood pressure levels are a continuum, and the cut off between treatable and healthy levels is somewhat arbitrary. Some people have a good memory, some people have somewhat worse memory, the ones with the worst memory we diagnose with dementia.

What does happen however is that because these people behave differently from most, they tend to be come socially isolated and that is what actually causes the anti-social behaviour sometimes seen.

An egg-chicken question. I don't think it's always possible to say whether social isolation causes antisocial behavior or vice versa. I think it may sometimes be a self-reinforcing loop. Someone is different, they are isolated, they don't get the same learning experiences as the other children, they become more different, they become more isolated etc.

 

[BunnyHop]

something wonky just happened to my computer.
The tabs I had open became blurry and un-attainable.

Just saying......................

:truce::what::truce:

 

[Norwegian]

Six-year-old Noah Pozner (pictured on Nov. 13, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Lanza-shot-child-11-times.html#ixzz2FCxhNs6E


:rose:

He was the youngest one to die.

And it is really heartbreaking, but his twin sister survived.

 

[BunnyHop]

I don't know if this means anything........

Putting it here:
Last night it also emerged Nancy was a member of the Doomsday Preppers movement, which believes people should prepare for end of the world.

Her former sister-in-law Marsha said she had turned her home ‘into a fortress’. She added: ‘Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

‘She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.’

Marsha added that her nephew had been raised by ‘kind, nurturing’ parents’. She said she last seen Adam in June but recalled nothing appeared out of the ordinary.

‘Nancy was a good mother, kind-hearted,’ she added. ‘She wasn’t one to deny reality. She would have sought psychiatric help for her son had she felt he needed it.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...us-turned-heartless-killer.html#ixzz2FBi8lE9X

 

[HarvestMoon]

No one seems to really know this mother and son. Not even their own relatives.