Connecticut school district on lockdown after shooting report at a Newtown elemen #7

[Pensfan]

This theory is AL being placed in a group home type of facility makes a lot of sense to me

AL sounded like he had a pretty comfortable life with about anything he needed was available to him, money did'nt seem like an obstacle to the Lanzas

Yeah, I can see this guy just exploding if he found out he was going to be moved. I'd imagine AL had pre conceptions of what group home living was, maybe he thought his hobbies, computers, cameras, guns would be very restricted there?

And that very thought turned him violent...Just my thoughts

Yes. Violent video games and television shows are NOT allowed in psychiatric hospitals or residential facilities. Residents are also required to participate in individual therapy and group therapy. They are closely monitored and do not have any privacy. Their roommate would also be chosen for them.

Axxx would not like a private psychiatric residential facility.

 

[carmenugt]

Do you mean the "fear of being committed" story? Works for me. Try this:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/1...madman-to-snap/?intcmp=trending#ixzz2FYLQeG13

THAT IS SO SAD! HIS MOTHER LOVED HIM AND WANTED THE BEST FOR HIM! She was even going to uproot herself to be with him through college. She had MS. She must have been so frightened about what would come of him if she couldn't care for him anymore due to her own illness. She was his "toughstone" and his anchor. Such a sad situation. Goes to show you money can't fix everything.

 

[nursebeeme]

If he was scaring her, that is the only place she could legally place him and know he was safe.

If he was spiraling downward, such a place would have staff psychiatrists/nurses to assess him frequently, ensure he took his meds, and change his meds if needed.

she could also have been doing it for his future care (re: planning ahead for when she was not able to be his caregiver)

:twocents:

 

[GreenTeam]

Yes, A can be hereditary. They are often of above-average or high intelligence (as determined by IQ tests). And they can tend to have child-like fits of rage or tantrums (usually pass quickly).

 

[toscaxyz]

Ok but why did she need him in a residential facility? Aspergers is not treated in a residential facility. I am starting to suspect that the problem was not related to his autism diagnosis directly.

There are residential treatment facilities for both children and adults with autism. There are also therapeutic boarding schools that specialize in people on the autism spectrum. There are post-secondary boarding schools designed to help young adults on the spectrum life skills and prepare them to live independently.

These kinds of institutions are mostly private though some are at least in part supported by public dollars. They are very costly. They vary in the level of security they provide, but some would probably be similar to a psychiatric facility where there are locked doors and/or they take away shoes and street clothes to discourage residents from leaving. Some are more like group homes, without a lot of security to keep residents in but some to keep outsiders out.

So if NL was considering some kind of residential facility for her son, it need not have been because he had a diagnosis other than the Asperger's that has been mentioned publicly.

 

[carmenugt]

Nancy didn't need to have conservatorship to have him admitted to a psychiatric hospital. A doctor/PA/Nurse Practitioner holds those admission keys.

To get him into a psychiatric residential facility (for those with developmental disabilities or psychiatric diagnoses), she did need to have power of attorney/conservatorship if he didn't want to go there.

Yes, I agree. At first I thought it was "a comittal." However, it sound like she was looking for long term treatment or "forced" treatment. Apparently, he must have been refusing to go to outpatient therapy.

 

[nursebeeme]

THAT IS SO SAD! HIS MOTHER LOVED HIM AND WANTED THE BEST FOR HIM! She was even going to uproot herself to be with him through college. She had MS. She must have been so frightened about what would come of him if she couldn't care for him anymore due to her own illness. She was his "toughstone" and his anchor. Such a sad situation. Goes to show you money can't fix everything.

bbm: this is a good thought... and perhaps why she was doing the legal stuff to plan for his future care

 

[FrayedKnot]

You mean no other children have outburst and talk back ever to their parents and even yell sometime?

I get very uncomfortable a lot of times when I go to town shopping and see kids who are screaming at their parents or having hissy fits because they arent getting their way.

So I fail to see how this makes Adam different than other children I have seen who act up.

IMO

Amen, sistah.

I just calmly (on the outside) sent my tween DD to bed for the night after she had a conniption fit and began speaking rudely to me as I was helping her study for a test. She raised her voice at me and smacked the back of the sofa and crumpled up her vocabulary page.

She is contrite now, of course. But too bad for her. She lost her study partner for the evening. Consequences.

She is not mentally ill (but does have ADHD). She is just a child testing her limits with me. But I would have been embarrassed for anyone to have witnessed that scene. It was so obnoxious. It took everything I had to look her in the eye and keep a level tone.

I know that some children with special needs are prone to tantrums and outbursts, but sometimes it is just good old fashioned brattiness! (I oughta know, lol)

 

[carmenugt]

There are residential treatment facilities for both children and adults with autism. There are also therapeutic boarding schools that specialize in people on the autism spectrum. There are post-secondary boarding schools designed to help young adults on the spectrum life skills and prepare them to live independently.

These kinds of institutions are mostly private though some are at least in part supported by public dollars. They are very costly. They vary in the level of security they provide, but some would probably be similar to a psychiatric facility where there are locked doors and/or they take away shoes and street clothes to discourage residents from leaving. Some are more like group homes, without a lot of security to keep residents in but some to keep outsiders out.

So if NL was considering some kind of residential facility for her son, it need not have been because he had a diagnosis other than the Asperger's that has been mentioned publicly.

Well, money was not an issue. I feel NL was trying to direct him to be independent and socially capable. If that makes sense. She wasn't going to be around forever. It sounds like she was the only one he was cofortable with.

 

[ami]

I'll start off by saying that I realize that some may not at all agree with the opinions expressed in this post, but I must say that the more clarified the information becomes as its released to the public..well..the more I am leaning toward in all likelihood some of the earlier(and even still presently) articles about who and what AL was are IMO painting a false or not so realistic picture of who he was and what capabilities that he really had all along..

I believe that yes, of course, without doubt AL was mentally ill as well as suffered from a personality disorder.. I absolutely believe he was genuinely socially awkward and did find it hard to "fit in".. however I believe that he was much more quote "normal" unquote than what many believe him to be, and quite possibly that he, himself potrayed himself to be..most importantly portrayed himself to be to his mother..

There are friends that have now come forward who say there was a quite "normal" side to AL that he showed once becoming comfortable of certain people.. that after opening up he was fully capable of making eye contact, and not only able to hold a conversation, but actually actively engaging in conversation.. these friends also go on to say that there was even a side to AL that consoled and comforted a friend when he'd see they were having a difficult time in their life, even offering hope of that things would get better for the friend...

IMO this info is of extreme importance in learning who and what AL really was, rather than what he possibly potrayed himself to be.. IMO I believe that its likely that just as much as mental illness plays a role in this, so, too does downright selfish, immature, and possibly even pure evil as well plays a role in this ..
I find it quite plausible that he was tantruming furious over the fact that his mother wanted him to venture out of the comforts of his basement of darkness that obviously just allowed him to continue to withdraw into his fantasy world of violence and his self centered universe with which he had created and mom IMO unknowingly was enabling and feeding into by coddling him and caring for him in terms of how one would care for a small child in many ways..

This individual had zero desire to branch out of his comfortable, spoiled world where everything literally revolved around him..his being allowed to just hole up In a dark basement and play video games, and immerse himself Into the depths of the internet..mom keeping him fed, a beautiful, comfy, cozy roof over his head, all of his games purchased for him, and him having his very own car to come and go as he so pleased..one of those outings that he pleased himself with was the wonderful world of firearms that mom felt IMO was her one and only bond that she had with her difficult and troubled son.. this IMO just further fueling the darkness with this individual..

IMO again, yes, I believe he quite obviously suffered from mental illness, but IMO that was not the severest issue, nor was it what mainly fueled his actions last Friday..the above described dark and comfy world within which he lived in IMO a good amount of young males who do not suffer from severe mental illnesses would also find appealing and love nothing more than to be catered to In such a way of their entire existence being holed up in a nice, comfy home with all their needs met and allowed to day in and day out completely immerse themselves in video games and the internet..have their very own car provided to them, with gas, isurance, etc all financial needs meet 100+% and literally zero responsibility expected nor asked of them..

You see this IMO while yes, involves mental illness it too just as much or more involves a dark heart of a spoiled and manipulative individual.. IMO his mom had become increasingly aware that her son COULD DO AND BE SO MUCH MORE..THAT HE WAS FULLY CAPABLE OF DOING AND BEING SO MUCH MORE..IMO she realized possibly that this particular way in which she fell into in spoiling, coddling, and enabling her son who, yes had issues, problems, but that she knew was fully capable in many ways of functioning..and IMO when she began to push forward with beginning to make him branch out of the rut that over time she could see was only causing deterioration rather than anything remotely positive..

He IMO tantrumed with fierce fury over his mothers attempts at taking away his self centered world of comfort and enabling.. I think when she actually began to put her foot down about that his little happy world of self consumed, catering to his every need life he was so content living..when he saw that it was really coming to an end and mom was really pulling the plug on letting him continue to slide through life with zero reonsibility and expectation of himself..and his childish, life long tantruming that had worked effectively for all these years in getting his mom to yield to him and his needs and wants.. when he saw it was no longer effective and mom really was pressing forward with making him do something other than be a spoiled, angry man-child that's every need, want, and desire was handed to him on a silver platter...

IMO and IMO only it was this described above situation that set in motion what's end result culminated last Friday.. he could no longer manipulate his mom into continuing the catering to this spoiled man-child's every desire..he realized his life as he knew it was really going to end and he cut mom off within days of the shooting ..IMO this a combination of a last stitch effort at his punishing mom with silence and complete withdrawal in hopes of her changing her mind..as well as beginning to put into motion his final eff you to mom and the world..

IMO I believe the clearer picture that will continue to emerge will clearly show this was not solely, nor even largely because of mental illness, but rather that the large portion of this puzzle is the dark heart of selfish, self serving man-child whose mental illness had allowed him to manipulate himself into the ultimate heaven of a loser of having every desire met on a silver platter, including financially, with zero responsibility or accountability, him left to completely immerse himself in video games and the internet.. when that comfortable, self serving, all losers dream come true of a lifestyle was threatened and coming to an end...IMO its those issues that trump mental illness a thousand times over in what led to Friday's tragedy..

All jmo, tho.

I really appreciate your theory and most of it speaks to me, moreso than most of the theories we've heard. ITA that AL was not the person we were originally led to believe he was... or not entirely that person. The DDR video game dancing during which a crowd would gather... up and against the pathologically shy mute who would rather hug a wall than be looked at, who could not stand to have so much as the landscaper catch a glimpse of him. I don't think those early stories contained all of the picture.

One thing that doesn't fit though IMO is that the spoiled, entitled and lazy boy you describe would not have committed suicide after killing his mother. Why not stage her death, and keep the money and the easy life? Why take out children and himself? Even in anger... I would picture the entitled, lazy, free-ride son to be more like the Menendez brothers, killing his mother to gain assets but want to remain in a position to benefit from them. ??

 

[4MYGUYS]

This theory is AL being placed in a group home type of facility makes a lot of sense to me

AL sounded like he had a pretty comfortable life with about anything he needed was available to him, money did'nt seem like an obstacle to the Lanzas

Yeah, I can see this guy just exploding if he found out he was going to be moved. I'd imagine AL had pre conceptions of what group home living was, maybe he thought his hobbies, computers, cameras, guns would be very restricted there?

And that very thought turned him violent...Just my thoughts

NO Guns allowed in a residential psychiatric facility, that's for sure. Or outings to the local shooting range to build self esteem.

 

[flipflop]

In the days before the massacre, the mother of AL was pushing her loner son to leave the Newtown home that provided his refuge from reality, a family friend told the Daily News Wednesday.

“He sat in his room playing video games for hours and hours,” the friend said. “She thought the best thing was for him to get out of the house and into the world. To interact with people a little bit.”

But the 20-year-old rejected the idea and stopped speaking to his mother, the friend said. Nancy Lanza and her youngest son hadn’t talked for three days before he fatally shot her Friday
Nancy Lanza had brought her son to a psychiatrist as he became increasingly anti-social — spending endless hours in his room by himself

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ewtown-killer-article-1.1223612#ixzz2FYcXoCua

JMO It sounds like NL was coming to terms with the fact that she needed help with her son. Unfortunatly, it was a little too late.

 

[zoomom]

I don't think R ever lost his ID. He might have gotten a new one (moved out of state), and left the old one at his mom's home, with all his other "childhood posessions". AL was under 21 - having an older brothers id is a golden ticket. For what- I don't know. It just is.

NOT meaning to quote myself - just don't know how to do what I want to do....

to CJMAJORSGIRL24:

In an ordinary world - having an older brothers ID would mean being able to buy booze and get into bars....in AL's world, I don't know.

Also, maybe AL snooped - in his brothers stuff, and just found it. I don't know when R got his first license - or if it had to be renewed every 2 years or what. I know I kept all my old DL.

 

[carmenugt]

Amen, sistah.

I just calmly (on the outside) sent my tween DD to bed for the night after she had a conniption fit and began speaking rudely to me as I was helping her study for a test. She raised her voice at me and smacked the back of the sofa and crumpled up her vocabulary page.

She is contrite now, of course. But too bad for her. She lost her study partner for the evening. Consequences.

She is not mentally ill (but does have ADHD). She is just a child testing her limits with me. But I would have been embarrassed for anyone to have witnessed that scene. It was so obnoxious. It took everything I had to look her in the eye and keep a level tone.

I know that some children with special needs are prone to tantrums and outbursts, but sometimes it is just good old fashioned brattiness! (I oughta know, lol)

The problem is the patient with Aspergers lack empathy and can be so focused on something and nothing is going to make them understand why the answer may be "no."

From Wikipedia:
People with Asperger syndrome often display behavior, interests, and activities that are restricted and repetitive and are sometimes abnormally intense or focused. They may stick to inflexible routines, move in stereotyped and repetitive ways, or preoccupy themselves with parts of objects.[27]
Pursuit of specific and narrow areas of interest is one of the most striking features of AS.[1] Individuals with AS may collect volumes of detailed information on a relatively narrow topic such as weather data or star names, without necessarily having a genuine understanding of the broader topic.[1][8] For example, a child might memorize camera model numbers while caring little about photography.[1] This behavior is usually apparent by age 5 or 6.[1] Although these special interests may change from time to time, they typically become more unusual and narrowly focused, and often dominate social interaction so much that the entire family may become immersed. Because narrow topics often capture the interest of children, this symptom may go unrecognized.[8]
Stereotyped and repetitive motor behaviors are a core part of the diagnosis of AS and other ASDs.[33] They include hand movements such as flapping or twisting, and complex whole-body movements.[27] These are typically repeated in longer bursts and look more voluntary or ritualistic than tics, which are usually faster, less rhythmical and less often symmetrical.[34]
According to the Adult Asperger Assessment (AAA) diagnostic test, a lack of interest in fiction and a positive preference towards non-fiction is common among adults with AS.[35]



A lack of demonstrated empathy has a significant impact on aspects of communal living for persons with Asperger syndrome.[2] Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity (social "games" give-and-take mechanic), and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.[1]
People with AS may not be as withdrawn around others compared to those with other, more debilitating, forms of autism; they approach others, even if awkwardly. For example, a person with AS may engage in a one-sided, long-winded speech about a favorite topic, while misunderstanding or not recognizing the listener's feelings or reactions, such as a wish to change the topic of talk or end the interaction.[8] This social awkwardness has been called "active but odd".[1] This failure to react appropriately to social interaction may appear as disregard for other people's feelings, and may come across as insensitive.[8] However, not all individuals with AS will approach others. Some of them may even display selective mutism, speaking not at all to most people and excessively to specific people. Some may choose to talk only to people they like.[29]
The cognitive ability of children with AS often allows them to articulate social norms in a laboratory context,[1] where they may be able to show a theoretical understanding of other people's emotions; however, they typically have difficulty acting on this knowledge in fluid, real-life situations.[8] People with AS may analyze and distill their observations of social interaction into rigid behavioral guidelines, and apply these rules in awkward ways, such as forced eye contact, resulting in a demeanor that appears rigid or socially naive. Childhood desire for companionship can become numbed through a history of failed social encounters.[1]
The hypothesis that individuals with AS are predisposed to violent or criminal behavior has been investigated but is not supported by data.[1][30] More evidence suggests children with AS are

 

[FrayedKnot]

<modsnip> Yes, he shot a school full of children. But there definitely was something going on in that home. He was 20 and had Aspergers. What we know about brain development now is that the brain is not fully developed until 26. Especially, in cognitive development and the ability to reason. That coupled with Aspergers and difficulty with empathy and social anxiety makes this a difficult mix. Once again, he was 20 wth Aspergers. I can empathize with the family. I can even offer forgiveness. "There but for the grace of God goes I. "

Respectfully, anyone who does what AL did last Friday is the freaking Boogie Man. And then some.

I don't think there is any revelation about this person's life that will cause me to think he was NOT a monster. Even if his circumstances created what he became, what he became was still a monster.

I don't know where I stand on forgiveness. I guess I don't feel like it is my place to forgive. I will leave that to the families and to God.

We still don't know that he did have Aspergers.

MOO

 

[gypsychild]

Amen, sistah.

I just calmly (on the outside) sent my tween DD to bed for the night after she had a conniption fit and began speaking rudely to me as I was helping her study for a test. She raised her voice at me and smacked the back of the sofa and crumpled up her vocabulary page.

She is contrite now, of course. But too bad for her. She lost her study partner for the evening. Consequences.

She is not mentally ill (but does have ADHD). She is just a child testing her limits with me. But I would have been embarrassed for anyone to have witnessed that scene. It was so obnoxious. It took everything I had to look her in the eye and keep a level tone.

I know that some children with special needs are prone to tantrums and outbursts, but sometimes it is just good old fashioned brattiness! (I oughta know, lol)

I have two half Italian daughters - loudness and hand gestures is just how they talk. Expressing emotion through words and gestures, even frustrated or angry tones, does not indicate mental illness or violence to me. It seems a healthy outlet IMO. How else is a mentally stable person to release frustration? (and yes, consequences for out of line behavior are absolutely necessary!)

 

[Xavier]

IMO we are very very likely to NEVER KNOW the truth, as IMO quite obviously the truth of this situation was bottled within for the most part and the two individuals it was bottled within are deceased..

I, in no way claim to know the exact percentage and ratio of part mental illness and part dark heart, angry, manipulation is at play in this particular tragedy of epic proportions...

but I firmly believe that there is a percentage of both of the above that led to last Friday..

and likely no one will ever know what each accurate percentage was at play as the vast majority of that truth was killed as well last Friday.. IMO there is more than sufficient information available that IMO is proof positive that both were present and caused what happened Friday.

I disagree Smooth. I think/hope we'll hear from the Lanza's, maybe relatives, friends and they'll help piece together the motive behind this

 

[joypath]

NOT meaning to quote myself - just don't know how to do what I want to do....

to CJMAJORSGIRL24:

In an ordinary world - having an older brothers ID would mean being able to buy booze and get into bars....in AL's world, I don't know.

Also, maybe AL snooped - in his brothers stuff, and just found it. I don't know when R got his first license - or if it had to be renewed every 2 years or what. I know I kept all my old DL.

FYI: State of CT Driver Licenses issued for 6 years, expired cards are NOT retained/collected/destroyed by the DMV.

 

[not_my_kids]

Kinda O/T: We got our School Reach call that our district is shutting down tomorrow and Friday. Due to security risks, paranoia, and rumors, as well as the one week anniversary of the shootings, they don't feel that holding school would be appropriate.

I was so relieved I burst into tears in the middle of my living room listening to the recording.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

FYI: State of CT Driver Licenses issued for 6 years, expired cards are NOT retained/collected/destroyed by the DMV.

Thanks!! Here they collect and destroy them!