GUILTY Conrad Murray Case - After The Trial & Verdict

[BigMomma]

I thank everyone here for their observations and posts. I did not watch this documentary last night, but caught some of the highlights on the news afterwards and I am beyond apalled.
1st to see Dr White paling around with the 2 attorneys, but what came out of Flanagans mouth and then his wife being in on discussions. I only hope there are some heavy sanctions from Judge Pastor. I know the trial for the most part is over, BUT what was the constant rule? Not Discuss This Case With ANYBODY and the defense, Murray did it, they talked and during trial, for money.
I never seen a witness as Dr White hanging around like that either. Now I understand what he meant about his payment and how much more he could be paid. The most appaling thing was how Flanagan and his wife spoke about MJ personal living habits. That was so low down and dirty. It does not matter how a person likes to live, this was not the crux of the case. I hope they all get sued and get their licenses pulled. Dr. Murray, in my eyes, is lower than a junkyard dog and his team are really no better.

 

[Talina]

I was watching online some media (I think it was KTLA) talking about how well known and well respected Flanagan is as a defense attorney in the LA area. I really wonder if this documentary and how he is coming across to people from the comments I've seen on this forum and others if that opinion is now taking a nose dive.

I hope so.

IMO

 

[Crosby87]

Heath Ledger stopped breathing and died in January 2008 because the cumulative effect of drugs impaired his brain stem. Heath "fell asleep and never woke up."

Therefore it stands to reason that MJ's brain stem would also be impaired from the cumulative effect of prescribed drugs he took over the years yet the condition of MJ's brain stem was not mentioned in the AR afaik.

 

[BigMomma]

Did Dr. Klein actually rebuild Michael's nose and jawline or did someone else?

I didn't know a dermatoligist who specializes in the study and treatment of skin diseases was qualified to perform delicate and complex surgeries on a person's skull and respiratory system.

It looks to me like the cartilage in Michael's nose was removed and a steel tube was inserted.

<snipped>

Dr. Klein said he began the slow and painful process of rebuilding some of Jackson's facial skin in early April after his nose collapsed and after he lost his jaw line. Klein disputed the argument by Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyers that he addicted Jackson to Demerol in the months before his death, saying he used only low doses of the painkiller while repairing Jackson's collapsed nose and jawline.

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/06/exclusive-doctor-says-mj-was-addicted-to-propofol/

Right now I can't remember when that 02 announcement happened, I thought it was in either February or March 08. IF that was MJ, I thought his jawline looked fine as his nose did. I always doubted it was MJ. Now that Dr. Klein, who by all accounts is a pretty respected Surgeon had to build up MJ face before his big comeback tour in June, how does anybody explain that MJ looked alright in Feb or March? I also seem to remember during the trial some of the testimony of R. Phillips was shut right down regarding if he had seen MJ in the UK, if MJ was in the UK. Got the feeling nobody wanted to say the truth, that maybe whoever that was at the 02 was not MJ. Could be very possible. That's showbiz.

 

[MissJames]

I was watching online some media (I think it was KTLA) talking about how well known and well respected Flanagan is as a defense attorney in the LA area. I really wonder if this documentary and how he is coming across to people from the comments I've seen on this forum and others if that opinion is now taking a nose dive.

I hope so.

IMO

"Pride cometh before a fall "

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Heath Ledger stopped breathing and died in January 2008 because the cumulative effect of drugs impaired his brain stem. Heath "fell asleep and never woke up."

Therefore it stands to reason that MJ's brain stem would also be impaired from the cumulative effect of prescribed drugs he took over the years yet the condition of MJ's brain stem was not mentioned in the AR afaik.

It is clear why MJ died. He was intoxicated with propofol (enough for a major 8 hour surgery) and the secondary cause was the benzos that Murray gave him.

It stopped his breathing and then stopped his heart.

IMO

 

[Talina]

I just had a thought. If by some slim chance Dr. Murray is able to keep his medical license to practice or even at some point in time in the future, get reinstated somewhere, I can't imagine that he'd be able to obtain medical malpractice insurance.

 

[Talina]

Can you just imagine the deposition that Dr. Conrad Murray will give in the civil lawsuit with Joe Jackson? His attorney will probably want to wring his neck afterwards since he likely will not be able to refrain himself and just give yes, no answers without elaborating. He reminds me of a woman I used to work with yrs ago. We'd be involved in some sort of litigation and instead of her just answering questions, she always had to show how smart she was and go beyond the opposing attorney's direct question. It made our attorney just absolutely nuts. The thing was, though, she wasn't near as smart as she thought she was and she always gave the other side more ammunition than they had to start with and it was often wrong information which just got us into more depositions. Absolutely infuriating.

 

[BigMomma]

I just had a thought. If by some slim chance Dr. Murray is able to keep his medical license to practice or even at some point in time in the future, get reinstated somewhere, I can't imagine that he'd be able to obtain medical malpractice insurance.

I vaguely remember some story when this first broke about how this Murray had done heart surgery on a boy child and when the op was over, Murray nicked the boys' aorta on accident and this child died. The parents could not sue because they said they had no money to retain an attorney, it was then mentioned there was no medical malpractice insurance. I think this happened in Houston area. - From what was being reported, Murray didn't even have the proper medical equipment in his Las Vegas office because he didn't own up to the lease agreement and the items were confiscated. IDK, his Las Vegas 'nurses' weren't professionally trained either. What sort of medical operation was this so called Dr. running anyways?

His medical license being taken away only in California means nothing. He didn't actually practice here, if he did, why didn't he get those prescriptions from a pharmacy in Beverly Hills or even San Diego, why did he have to sneak it in from another State, under the radar? Because he could not write a prescription in CA. He doesn't think he's guilty-That is unacceptable! He's got some convuluted ideas and a huge ego that won't quit. I hope Judge Pastor throws the book at him for this little publicity stunt he pulled. :furious:

I hope he won't be able to hand out so much as a baby aspirin after he serves his time.

 

[peace9274]

Thanks to all of you for the posts about the interview and documentary. I haven't watched either and don't think I am going to do so.

I really appreciate all the info and comments.

There's so much more to see of CM in Youtube videos (not from "MJ & The Doctor") than there was in last night's
so called documentary.... one of him dancing at a club, one of him in church, "preaching" to the pulpit... and others!!

The film last night, IMO, did not do CM nor his defense team any "justice."

I'm wondering if the film crew started out doing a film in favor of CM, that would show CM as a good, decent,
GAWD fearing, caring, gentle, intelligent, faithful doctor/person.... but then discovered, over time, there was no such thing.

 

[BigMomma]

I was watching online some media (I think it was KTLA) talking about how well known and well respected Flanagan is as a defense attorney in the LA area. I really wonder if this documentary and how he is coming across to people from the comments I've seen on this forum and others if that opinion is now taking a nose dive.

I hope so.

IMO

I think Chernoff needed an L.A. based attorney because he didn't have the license to practice by his lonesome in L.A., being from Houston, he needed something like a 'sponsor' or backup support. I read Flanagan's website. Seems he's more of an automotive specialist for lawsuits for car manufacturers and car dealerships. I have no doubts Murray will file something regarding ineffective counsel, drag this out some more. He'd be better off to take his medicene and shut up already. He was a high priced provider and did wrong. End of story.

 

[Talina]

I think Chernoff needed an L.A. based attorney because he didn't have the license to practice by his lonesome in L.A., being from Houston, he needed something like a 'sponsor' or backup support. I read Flanagan's website. Seems he's more of an automotive specialist for lawsuits for car manufacturers and car dealerships. I have no doubts Murray will file something regarding ineffective counsel, drag this out some more. He'd be better off to take his medicene and shut up already. He was a high priced provider and did wrong. End of story.

I think this is the reason Chernoff hired Flanagan out of all his other choices:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/NURSE...ENT+DEATH+VERDICT:+'MISTAKE+IN...-a0124231339

Flanagan's quote at the end of the article that Nurse Brunner would not lose her license was a bit premature.

http://rn.ca.gov/public/rn575084.pdf

And then later, (I suspect due to the very strict and strong probation they placed her on, she willingly went to a different line of work altogether:

http://www.op.nysed.gov/opd/dec07.htm#nurse

Amy M. Brunner, Los Angeles, CA

Profession: Registered Professional Nurse; Lic. No. 541219; Cal. No. 23530
Regents Action Date: December 14, 2007
Action: Application for consent order granted; Penalty agreed upon: 2 year actual suspension, 2 years probation to commence upon return to practice.
Summary: Licensee did not contest the charge that she was found guilty of professional misconduct in California.

Edited to add:

Murray hired Chernoff within 48 hours of Jackson's death. [See "Best Course of Treatment," Texas Lawyer, July 20, 2009, page 5.] Since then, Chernoff has been shuttling from Houston to Los Angeles on a regular basis. Chernoff says last fall he leased an apartment in Hollywood to reduce hotel costs and he learned to stop answering his cell phone when he didn't recognize the number.

Chernoff says in July he even took and passed the California bar exam &#8212; although he still has to be sworn in as a member. Four weeks before the test, he began getting up at 3 a.m. to study using 3-year-old books he bought on CraigsList. He says he lucked out on the bar exam, because two of the essay questions were about criminal law. He says he took the California bar exam because he didn't want to risk losing his pro hac vice status.

Chernoff says in December 2009 he interviewed about a dozen lawyers but decided on J. Michael Flanagan, a partner in Glendale, Calif.'s Flanagan, Unger & Grover. Chernoff says he chose Flanagan because Flanagan successfully defended two California nurses charged with involuntary manslaughter for allegedly administering Propofol to a patient who died.

http://www.bestdefender.com/news/January11/30.html

 

[Crosby87]

Klein did not perform surgery. He used intra-muscular fillers to do the rebuilding with botox and restylane more like sculpturing .... It was not the average botox and fillers that the average jane doe gets. It went much deeper.

What did MJ's plastic surgeon Steven M. Hoefflin do for MJ?

Dr. Murray said MJ wouldn't want anyone to know about the skin bleaching cream and I wonder what the long-term side effects of this cream are.

Would skin bleaching cream over time weaken the skin cells and cause them to breakdown and tear? Possibly.

It's very likely the bleach contained potent ingredients that burned and damaged MJ's facial skin too.

If I was a singer and my nose and jawline caved in, I'd hang up my dancing shoes and retire.

IDK, maybe none of this concerned MJ but this incident reported by Dr. Klein would alarm me. jmo

 

[wonders]

I haven't read posts here but I have a few things I'd like to say.

I blame Joseph Jackson for MJ's ultimate strangeness. He beat the fire out of that boy when he was little, he didn't let him have a childs life, he insisted by threats of turning his back on his children if they didn't preform from sun up to sun down. All Joseph cared about was making himself rich, he still to this day rides on the coat tails of MJ. Have you ever noticed he never walks with his wife. In my personal opinion she was as much abused as the children were. That unhuman man should walk in shame. I'm willing to bet that after he dies we will hear so much of what a monster he really was.

 

[Crosby87]

Right now I can't remember when that 02 announcement happened, I thought it was in either February or March 08. IF that was MJ, I thought his jawline looked fine as his nose did. I always doubted it was MJ. Now that Dr. Klein, who by all accounts is a pretty respected Surgeon had to build up MJ face before his big comeback tour in June, how does anybody explain that MJ looked alright in Feb or March? I also seem to remember during the trial some of the testimony of R. Phillips was shut right down regarding if he had seen MJ in the UK, if MJ was in the UK. Got the feeling nobody wanted to say the truth, that maybe whoever that was at the 02 was not MJ. Could be very possible. That's showbiz.

March 5th, 2009 - Michael Jackson announces the London dates at the O2 Arena ... this link includes many pictures of Michael's face.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/05/michael-jacksons-face-dur_n_172242.html

 

[octobermoon]

I haven't read posts here but I have a few things I'd like to say.

I blame Joseph Jackson for MJ's ultimate strangeness. He beat the fire out of that boy when he was little, he didn't let him have a childs life, he insisted by threats of turning his back on his children if they didn't preform from sun up to sun down. All Joseph cared about was making himself rich, he still to this day rides on the coat tails of MJ. Have you ever noticed he never walks with his wife. In my personal opinion she was as much abused as the children were. That unhuman man should walk in shame. I'm willing to bet that after he dies we will hear so much of what a monster he really was.

ITA, Wonders. I saw Rabbi S. interviewed this week, forgot which show, but he said the same things you just did. I realize that it was a different era, but that doesn't absolve JJ from the abuse. I can't imagine the pain MJ endured at the hands of his father.

 

[borndem]

UGH, I don't know how much more of this crock u mentary I can stand!!!

:rotfl::lol::laugh:crock u mentary :silly::giggle::groucho:
:idea:

:great::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::woohoo::yesss::dance::skip::bud::biglaugh::applause:​

:goodpost:

Boy, did you nail it, o'moon!!!! So simple, yet so, so true. A new genre!! Still ho-ho'ing that description. It just makes me smile and laff. Beee-yooo-tee-full, 'moon, just dandy!

Thanks for laying that one on us!! I tivo'ed "The Doctor..." crock last night, and just now have watched it. Well, let the CFCM have his little time (while he's doing the time) -- I did enjoy the little pieces on the DT when they were hashing-out some stuff. Maybe, although selected, I'm sure, and probably edited, -- maybe it does show a bit of the flavor of their relationship. Big egos, for sure, and Cherny & Flanagain had lotsa that.
Giggle, giggle, giggle.

​

 

[peace9274]

ITA, Wonders. I saw Rabbi S. interviewed this week, forgot which show, but he said the same things you just did. I realize that it was a different era, but that doesn't absolve JJ from the abuse. I can't imagine the pain MJ endured at the hands of his father.

Apparently MJ's older brothers added to the pain MJ endured.

In one of his interviews (with Oprah? Baba?) he talked about the early years of the Jackson 5 being on concert tours.
MJ was a very young boy at the time and all the brothers would share a hotel suite. I remember him saying in the interview
that the older brothers would bring girls back to the suite and party.. with booze and sex running rampant. MJ said his brothers
would make him go to bed, because he was too young to party.

But of course, being all wound up after a concert, plus wanting to be "one of the older guys", plus all
the noise & visuals going on in the suite... MJ could NOT sleep, so he would just pretend to be asleep.

But, as he told it... there were "sex acts going on all around me, sometimes right on the same bed I was on.
Naked women everywhere. Alcohol spilling all over me. Terrible language being used. This was very terrifying to me, as a small boy."

 

[borndem]

Talk about a drama queen.:innocent: Sheesh I think I am watching some cheesy B grade movie.

IMO

Same here, ocean. Verrrrry Grade B.

Just remember, chirren, talk and tears are cheap. I haven't seen him walk the walk yet. Not likely to, either. Unless it's the long walk to the county jail....

 

[borndem]

I am sure cm thinks he could run the court better than Judge P. He really thinks a lot of himself. yuck.

Pure textbook narcissism. Not even disguised one whit. It just drips off him all over the floor. Quarts. Drenched.