Convictions of Murder Without A Body

[magnolia]

Yes, I was vague about my implication that someone else was involved. I don't know if I believe that anyone else was involved with the death, but I do believe there was someone else involved with either moving the body, covering things up, and/or some other action, after the fact.

Casey didn't carry the burden alone for the 30-day period before Caylee was reported missing.

She went crying to someone. I believe that someone was Lee.

IMO!!

 

[jbar]

I would agree with you - but Lee is such an obvious choice, and his comings and goings would be easily thought suspicous or verified. His girlfriend, their parents, did he have a job during this period? To me, I am thinking that the person that helped has slid off into the darkness, right now and/or is hiding.

 

[thelmadawg]

Some great responses.

IF KC was convicted of negligent manslaughter, together with the other felonies, etc., what sort of time would she serve?

What evidence do you think LE might have that we don't know about?

Personally, I don't think anyone aided her in this. She's a loner other than using others to either get something in return or to boost her own ego. I think the family has probably come to the realization, Lee, in particular, that she is culpable in some way, but cannot for legal reasons, or because of self-denial, make that public or evident. Lee, for one, is probably protecting the family and their home as much as anything right now. AS for the grandparents, they seem to have a confrontational history that is still coming into play. CA, in particular, during the initial hearing testimoney stuck me as playing the martyr, and was already confrontational and evasive about KC. Very interesting family dynamics!

 

[jbar]

She's a loner other than using others to either get something in return or to boost her own ego. I think the family has probably come to the realization, Lee, in particular, that she is culpable in some way, but cannot for legal reasons, or because of self-denial, make that public or evident. Lee, for one, is probably protecting the family and their home as much as anything right now

Great points.

As a narcassist, perhaps she felt like she could handle this all by herself, and better than anyone else could - so you are right, there is the potential she didn't involve anyone. Hmmm... something for me to think about, appreciate it.

 

[karenmamo]

I'n not an Attorney either, but, I think you're right on about this.

However, don't know if I believe that someone else was involved in the death of Caylee. I lean more towards thoughts that someone helped her with the cover-up.

I also think some of her friends have more info. that would be of interest to LE.

If Casey confided in anyone about what actually happened, I strongly believe it would be her brother, Lee.

Lee knows what happened. IMO!!

In agreement: Lee is KEY :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[magnolia]

*Snipped*

Personally, I don't think anyone aided her in this. She's a loner other than using others to either get something in return or to boost her own ego. I think the family has probably come to the realization, Lee, in particular, that she is culpable in some way, but cannot for legal reasons, or because of self-denial, make that public or evident. Lee, for one, is probably protecting the family and their home as much as anything right now. AS for the grandparents, they seem to have a confrontational history that is still coming into play. CA, in particular, during the initial hearing testimoney stuck me as playing the martyr, and was already confrontational and evasive about KC. Very interesting family dynamics!

Great points.

As a narcassist, perhaps she felt like she could handle this all by herself, and better than anyone else could - so you are right, there is the potential she didn't involve anyone. Hmmm... something for me to think about, appreciate it.

I agree! Great points! You may be right that she didn't involve anyone else.

But then again, what a big burden for someone as young and immature as Casey to carry alone.

 

[marlap]

I think they can reasonably infer that Caylee is dead based on the decomp fluids + DNA + decomp smell/air and other analysis of what was in the trunk, plus eyewitness testimony about the smell in the car.

The big question I think is what can they charge her with: involuntary manslaughter, or manslaughter, or one of the murder charges (3 or 2). Murder 1 will be challenging but maybe not impossible.

This is how I feel, too.

I think they already have scientific evidence that Caylee's dead body was in the car.

I think murder 1 charges are not out of the question, especially depending on exactly when Casey did those Internet cholorform searches.

I think she will at the very least be charged with manslaughter.

Because of all the check fraud charges and the jail time she may get from all that, I can see LE waiting as long as they need to to charge her with manslaughter or murder 1. She's not going anywhere any time soon, as they say.

I'm hoping the police have plenty of evidence we haven't heard about that would help them charge her with murder 1.

There may even be someone who helped Casey get rid of Caylee's body (Rest in peace sweet angel!) and they are looking for that person...

I would be very surprised if she were not eventually charged with some level of responsibilty for Caylee's death.

 

[librarian_mama]

But convicted of what? If the "sources" are correct, LE is leaning toward accidental death as a possibility. It's possible that Casey wouldn't even do jail time for that.

Accidental death by Chloroform? Casey searched Chloroform on that laptop...I also think if it was accidental, Casey wouldn't be keeping silent this long. JMO


I am starting to think that Casey probably did have some help with the disposal of Caylee--there seem to be (tiny) bits of truth thrown in her lies--in the LE interveiw, she keeps saying repeatedly "I have no clue where Caylee is"--perhaps whoever helped her makes this statement true...she doesn't know the exact spot. JMO.

 

[magnolia]

My concern is that without the body, with out the cause of death, with out a weapon, without a motive other than that she wanted to party, etc the circumstantial chain will not be strong enough on appeal.

*Snipped*

I am worried in this case that the family has behaved in such a way that many wrenches have been thrown into the investigation, that we do not even know about, that could rise to the level of constitutional problems. I am worried that all the media coverage has tainted any possible jury verdict, I am worried about the reliability of the body farm testing and whether or not it will stand up to daubert and be admissible. I just am plain worried.

I am concerned where this case is headed for the same reasons.

 

[magnolia]

IMO, if this evidence is confirmed, then there is more than enough evidence to convict without a body.

It the evidence is such that it can be confirmed.... I agree!

 

[Charge Them All]

LE is confident that she will spend time behind bars for the fraud charges, so they have plenty of time to charge her with murder. They will charge her with or without the body. If they can find Caylee that will just be icing on the cake, so to speak. She is not walking free without a body, maybe a lesser charge, but she will pay for what she has done. Then she will pay for all eternity with the lord. There is no escape for KC.

 

[thelmadawg]

IF KC is convicted of, say, negligent manslaughter (assuming for the moment they can't prove murder) together with the other felony and check charges, how much time could (would) she get?

Hope this hasn't been answered already, and I just haven't seen it. I guess most of us who, by now, think this lady is guilty as sin (IMHO) are hoping she won't get away with a pat on the wrist, so to speak!

 

[jbar]

But then again, what a big burden for someone as young and immature as Casey to carry alone.

Yes, we, as mentally healthy and stable individuals would assume this to be the case. Who knows though, as a sociopath and narcassist.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Does anyone know if FL has a homicide by abuse or depraved indifference murder statute? Here in WA a person can be fould guilty of "Homicide by abuse,"which is something more than manslaughter but less than man1 or 2, if "under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life, the person causes the death of a child or person under sixteen years of age." Such a statute may provide a more safe charging option.

I don't know if this has been answered yet as I 'm just reading this thread.

Yes Florida does have that situation covered by statute.

There are 2 types of 1st degree murder in FL, which carry life in prison or the death penalty.

The first type is with premeditation.

The reckless aggravated child abuse leading to death, would fall into the second category (during the commision of certain crimes--there is a death)

Sorry if this is already answered...still reading thread.

 

[Balthazar]

Logan Tucker Case: 6 year old disappears, body never found, mother convicted of murder. Told a big pack of lies - many of them just plain ridiculous.

http://www.woodwardnews.net/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_056013420.html
http://bubbaworld.com/2007/08/31/katherine-rutan-pollard-trial/


She got rid of him because with him around she couldn't do what she wanted to do.

Sentenced to life without parole.

 

[dcorrigano]

They convict all day long without a body, even death penalty cases. In the case of Scott Peterson, they had the body but no "hard" evidence and really nothing mre than circumstantial evidence.(not saying he didnt do it) If all the LE statements are true and with just the evidence leaked, I think they could win this without accident and turn it into a death penalty case. Motive, revenge on the parents. Opportunity, took off for days. and all the pictures of her partying. Which is why it doesnt make sense they havent charged her yet.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

I found this a while back but didn't really know where to put it ... I see that this is the perfect spot for it.

Here is a site that has a list of all the "no body" murder trials and outcomes and insight from the author a successful prosecutor of many "no body" murder convictions.

Snipped from site:
http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/index.html

Quote from Tad DiBiase the No Body Guy
"For over 12 years I was an Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia and I prosecuted homicide cases for most of those years. In January of 2006, I prosecuted the second "no body" murder case tried in D.C. and have been interested in "no body" cases ever since.

On this site I track "no body" murder cases, trials and investigations. My table of "No body" Murder Trials lists nearly 300 "no body" murder trials in the United States. I also have consulted, for free, with law enforcement agencies throughout the United States and Canada. If you know of a "no body" case, investigation, or trial, contact me and I'd be happy to add it to my table or blog about it.

All the best,
Thomas A. (Tad) DiBiase, 'No Body' Guy"

 

[Baznme]

I found this a while back but didn't really know where to put it ... I see that this is the perfect spot for it.

Here is a site that has a list of all the "no body" murder trials and outcomes and insight from the author a successful prosecutor of many "no body" murder convictions.

Snipped from site:
http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/index.html

For over 12 years I was an Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia and I prosecuted homicide cases for most of those years. In January of 2006, I prosecuted the second "no body" murder case tried in D.C. and have been interested in "no body" cases ever since.

On this site I track "no body" murder cases, trials and investigations. My table of "No body" Murder Trials lists nearly 300 "no body" murder trials in the United States. I also have consulted, for free, with law enforcement agencies throughout the United States and Canada. If you know of a "no body" case, investigation, or trial, contact me and I'd be happy to add it to my table or blog about it.

All the best,

Thomas A. (Tad) DiBiase, "No Body" Guy

Given your experience with these types of cases, what do you think will go down for KC at the point we are at with no body?

 

[magnolia]

They convict all day long without a body, even death penalty cases. In the case of Scott Peterson, they had the body but no "hard" evidence and really nothing mre than circumstantial evidence.(not saying he didnt do it) If all the LE statements are true and with just the evidence leaked, I think they could win this without accident and turn it into a death penalty case. Motive, revenge on the parents. Opportunity, took off for days. and all the pictures of her partying. Which is why it doesnt make sense they havent charged her yet.

DA's have different standards. Some DA's are willing to take a chance. Others are more cautious, and won't take on a case unless they feel fairly confident about the outcome.

If my memory serves me correctly, several of the SP jurors stated, that without the body they would have voted to acquit.

 

[one_hooah_wife]

Given your experience with these types of cases, what do you think will go down for KC at the point we are at with no body?

I don't have experience with homicide cases ... so I really can't say ... but the part that I snipped was a quote from the website of Tad DiBiase ... you can find lots of info there on his Blog and he also welcomes email. Sorry for the confusion!

Pamela