Coronavirus COVID-19 *Global Health Emergency* #12

[What if...]

BBM

Excellent post, illustrating the huge difficulties governments face trying to stop the spread of COVID-19...really a no win situation. It will keep spreading...until it doesn’t.

You say “Where we go from here is anyone’s guess...” Here’s my guess or hope. Rather than focusing on containment, I would like to see governments put their energy and expertise into prevention and treatment.

Prevention involves preventing/minimizing the spread in communities by common sense sanitation as we’ve discussed here. Limiting large group gatherings for now might help too. I honestly don’t think getting people to cooperate with isolation is going to work well. Many will just not admit that they’ve been exposed or even know before they’ve infected others...such as WA state. So we really have to be diligent about protecting ourselves individually and isolate for our own protection if necessary. For the most vulnerable among us, in assisted living and nursing homes, those protective efforts will have to be done by their poorly paid carers.

But many of us will still get sick, and the government must be prepared to deal with treatment, taking the lead in advising hospitals and helping them get equipment and supplies AND protect their staff...if lots of health care workers get sick, all bets are off.

Even in a best case scenario, some will die. That’s just a fact. But I think prevention and treatment can minimize that...I hope. So for now, I really don’t think we can expect the government to successfully contain this. The government is going to make a lot of well-publicized decisions so that we think they are going to contain it and we will feel safe. But “safety” by containment is an illusion IMO. That horse/germ has left the stable! Instead I think they need to be transparent and “alarmist” in the sense of educating their citizens in prevention and really revving up treatment so that more of those infected survive. Or, if they don’t do this, we need to educate ourselves as we are doing here, support each other and hope for the best.
All JMO

I agree. IMO, the focus needs to be on SLOWING the spread within each community as they get hit. We all stand a better chance of beating the odds as long as we can receive quality treatment. I don’t see containment in the typical sense as a realistic option. But we need to find a way to space it out so the medical community at large doesn’t get completely overwhelmed.

If we look at Hubei as the model for the progression of infection, the results are rather misleading. The “peak” of the virus in Hubei was artificially created by the extreme lockdown placed on the province. Scientists are already warning of a second “wave” in Hubei when the quarantine measures are relaxed. So, unfortunately, we don’t know yet just how long it would take for this virus to naturally peak on its own. Had they not locked it down, the numbers would have skyrocketed, and according to early projections, the peak would not yet have occurred. If true, then what we witnessed taking place in Wuhan was really just the tip of the iceberg if left to natural progression. IMO, pacing the speed will be the key to the best possible outcome. The real question is how?

Every day that we gain by slowing the progression puts us one day closer to better treatment options, one day closer to a vaccine. Someone recently posted an article on this thread that a 98(?) year old woman that had been infected in Wuhan was recently classified as “recovered”, so it appears treatment options are already improving.
Maybe we start by insulating the elderly in nursing homes and the like, as they are in the highest risk category, this would provide a delay for that group and in turn would reduce the number of patients that are most likely to need medical attention if/when they get infected.
Not necessarily the “right” answer, but just an example of one possibility.

What I do know, is that having our hospitals as packed as our stores are on Black Friday is not the best scenario for any of us - and specifically for the frontline healthcare workers that will be overtaxed no matter how this all plays out. I honestly feel for the healthcare workers the most. As we explore the various options to limit our exposure - hiding in isolation will be one option they won’t have.

To anyone working the frontlines of the medical field that reads this post - my heartfelt thanks in advance!!!

 

[StarrChance]

they reported today, both are positive. Just got results. More tests to be done tomorrow.

Here is latest video, they did three today

Thankyou, can you post a link?

Negative for Sally and now positive? She is still coughing, I can’t imagine how hard it must be for them.

 

[firebird]

The hypochondriac thing? Perhaps the common cold, a bit of fear, and an expectation that the doctor do something?

Never fear, the virus is near, and I think it qualifies as the superbug viral infection that defies all antibiotics. Its' always been said that there's no cure for the common cold - gotta ride it out.

Perhaps that was a mistake.

Not from me! They got no corona fear vibe on my end. I posted earlier, my very closest work colleague had contagious pnuemonia in January and so did his wife. She was hospitalized and he caught it and missed more than a week of work. My son is asthmatic, so when I developed respiratory symptoms I thought I should just go make sure I hadn't caught what my c0-worker had, get the meds so I don't miss work and my son doesn't get that tight cough for weeks. I did warn my son to stay away from things I touch, like the refrigerator, stove, dishwasher, washer and dryer. He seems to think that's not a problem If he'd sent me away with no meds, I would have been happy, actually.

To your point, though, my son was a severely asthmatic toddler. When he was in the ER as a baby I told the ER doc I didn't want him on meds for life and her tone changed completely. She was all for my approach of letting him outgrow it -- which he has -- and essentially told me what you are saying. The parents come in with expectations, and the docs meet them. My son's older half-brother has been on asthma meds his entire life (he's and adult now) because of his parents' expectations. People tend to forget that, although it really shouldn't be, medical care is a business.

 

[firebird]

How interesting! My son had a very, very nasty cold and he finally gave in and went to doctor's office. He, too, was prescribed oral steroids and was told if no improvement, he would be given ABX. I'd never heard of that and was wary. He did end up absolutely needing antibiotics several days later( stubborn sinus infection), and still has a cough

That IS interesting. In my case, the doc actually called me back in to explain that he was also giving me a chest xray rx for 4 days time in case the steroids didn't help. Hmm...

 

[margarita25]

Ok, I’m catching up on Monday’s WHO presser as I just mentioned. That fact that Dr. Tedros mentioned Japan as a top concern speaks volumes to me, moo. Italy, Iran and Korea, no surprise. But to hear Japan in the top 4 as part of the opening sentences is huge, moo. He chooses his words very carefully.

 

[otto]

Thanks Otto, I wasn’t sure about contributing much on this thread but even though we’re way “down under “ we’re not obsoleteUs Aussies share many commonalities in the world including crime and Covid (unfortunately) and as long as I’m receiving feedback I’ll keep finding the most appropriate news to post. No more toilet paper though, I’m over that one

When I asked him about stocking up, he said "oh, is it happening here now??"

Most people are not too concerned, and he went there knowing that there might be a pandemic. It had already started when he arrived, although it was called an un-contained epidemic at the time.

 

[otto]

I’m watching Monday’s WHO Presser now. I’m noting there are 1.2K thumbs up and 1.4K thumbs down. Yikes. I love Dr. Tedros and Dr. Mike.

Are people ranking popularity of a health expert during a global epidemic?

 

[otto]

How interesting! My son had a very, very nasty cold and he finally gave in and went to doctor's office. He, too, was prescribed oral steroids and was told if no improvement, he would be given ABX. I'd never heard of that and was wary. He did end up absolutely needing antibiotics several days later( stubborn sinus infection), and still has a cough

Sinus is not bacterial.

 

[margarita25]

Are people ranking popularity of a health expert during a global epidemic?

I know you joined us later in these discussions.

I’ve been watching every single WHO PC since Day 1 and have been studying every spoken word by these incredible gentlemen. People who have been here since the beginning know that I have been specifically quoting their content daily.

Not sure what you mean. I have intense respect for them.

 

[Hatfield]

Not sure if this recent news has been shared but it surprised me a lot.

Turns out there is a case in North Carolina now, but get this. The person caught it from the same affected Life Care Nursing Home way over in Washington state and flew on a plane to North Carolina. So now everyone on the plane could have been in contact with the infected North Carolina person. Also whoever this person went to stay with in NC.


"The first presumptive case of the novel coronavirus in North Carolina is linked to a Seattle-area nursing home facility where five residents were sick and later died, authorities in the Tar Heel state said Tuesday.
The new patient is from Wake County, home to Raleigh and 1.1 million people. North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper said the person was exposed at a center in Washington where there is a Covid-19 outbreak while on a trip.

A nursing home in the Seattle area is at the center of the US coronavirus outbreak
That facility is the Life Care Center in Kirkland, northeast of Seattle, where county and federal officials are trying to determine how the disease got there and watching many of the more than 200 people who lived or worked there for signs of coronavirus.
"

North Carolina coronavirus case linked to Seatte-area nursing home - CNN

 

[otto]

Ok, I’m catching up on Monday’s WHO presser as I just mentioned. That fact that Dr. Tedros mentioned Japan as a top concern speaks volumes to me, moo. Italy, Iran and Korea, no surprise. But to hear Japan in the top 4 as part of the opening sentences is huge, moo. He chooses his words very carefully.

Why is Japan mentioned. Japan numbers appear to be contained - is it a lack of testing? It doesn't look like there's much of a difference between March 1 and 4.

Today



March 1, 2020

 

[margarita25]

Why is Japan mentioned. Japan numbers appear to be contained - is it a lack of testing? It doesn't look like there's much of a difference between March 1 and 4.

Today

View attachment 236087

March 1, 2020

View attachment 236088

Exactly. The numbers have been weird to me, moo.

I’ve been saying since Day 1 something’s been going on in Japan moo.

I have posted lots of Japan stuff, including confirmation of sustained human to human transmission in the travel advisories. I’m still listening to the PC. I just started it. I’ll bring forward the link and we can listen together. Again, this is from MONDAY:

I’m not even 3 minutes in yet. I’ll bump the transcript later also.

If Dr. Tedros is worried about Japan, I’m worried about Japan.

Curious to hear more.

 

[Lilibet]

They actually did make me hungry. However, a salad would do and that is NOT normally the case lol. So maybe steroids are the answer for me? I have a huge inexplicable hearing loss, so I got one steroid protocol as a test remedy for that a month ago, and another for the upper respiratory symptoms just a day ago. Tbh, I was just like give me whatever it takes for me to feel good enough to work all day and fix dinner

BBM

OT—LOL And the BBM is how antibiotics ended up being handed out indiscriminately! Doc, I need to function! But I think steroids used carefully can be “lifesaver” when you need to function. Just before a trip to NYC with friends in October 2018, my bad back got even “badder.” The orthopedist prescribed a 7 day pack of steroids for inflammation and an MRI on my return. Those precious pills allowed me to walk all over NYC (7 miles on two different days) and even walk across the Brooklyn Bridge (bucket list). I still hurt, but I functioned for three weeks on the east coast with lots of walking that I never could have done otherwise. But frequent use can cause side effects unfortunately.

 

[otto]

I know you joined us later in these discussions.

I’ve been watching every single WHO PC since Day 1 and have been studying every spoken word by these incredible gentlemen. People who have been here since the beginning know that I have been specifically quoting their content daily.

Not sure what you mean. I have intense respect for them.

I have been watching this from the beginning. This isn't the only place in the world where people are watching this unfold.

I'm sure there is no popularity ranking of like/dislike associated with global health announcements. That would be bizarre, like shooting the messanger.

 

[StarrChance]

Reposting because it's such good information.

Ok just have say it...
Went out as usual here, someone coughing nearby and held my breath, despite reading all

Thanks Otto, I wasn’t sure about contributing much on this thread but even though we’re way “down under “ we’re not obsoleteUs Aussies share many commonalities in the world including crime and Covid (unfortunately) and as long as I’m receiving feedback I’ll keep finding the most appropriate news to post. No more toilet paper though, I’m over that one

Ha “Down Under” and toilet paper ...

 

[margarita25]

I have been watching this from the beginning. This isn't the only place in the world where people are watching this unfold.

I'm sure there is no popularity ranking of like/dislike associated with global health announcements. That would be bizarre, like shooting the messanger.

Ok so I used the word “love”. This doesn’t indicate there’s a popularity contest. Was just stating an opinion of my respect for them.

I have already stated so many times how brilliant I think he and Dr. Mike are and have pulled several quotes. That was my point.

 

[otto]

Exactly. I’ve been saying since Day 1 something’s been going on in Japan moo.

I have posted lots of Japan stuff. Including confirmation of sustained human to human transmission in the travel advisories.
I’m still listening to the PC. I just started I’ll bring forward the link and we can listen together: Again, this is from MONDAY:

I’m not even 3 minutes in yet. I’ll bump the transcript later also.

If Dr. Tedros is worried about Japan, I’m worried about Japan.

Curious to hear more.

It's not logical that he is suddenly worried about a country that appears to have the virus contained. They had a cruise ship full of hundreds of sick people move through their country, and there was a taxi driver who attended a taxi driver convention. 200 cases is great, but now that WHO has pointed it out, it doesn't seem realistic.

In the past, WHO focus has been on the weakest link, the country that could not treat or contain. Is that Japan? It seemed like it would be a country in Africa, but it also seemed like India would go big before Italy.

 

[margarita25]

It's not logical that he is suddenly worried about a country that appears to have the virus contained. They had a cruise ship full of hundreds of sick people move through their country, and there was a taxi driver who attended a taxi driver convention. 200 cases is great, but now that WHO has pointed it out, it doesn't seem realistic.

In the past, WHO focus has been on the weakest link, the country that could not treat or contain. Is that Japan? It seemed like it would be a country in Africa, but it also seemed like India would go big before Italy.

I was thinking the same thing about Italy and India today.

As for Africa, that’s a whole nother subject...

@otto, perhaps I misinterpreted your post. I apologize. It just occurred to me you may have been referring to the “thumbs up thumbs down” part. Sorry I wasn’t more clear. My point of that observation was to point out the obvious public dissatisfaction with the content of the video. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Oddsocks]

India has 22 new cases

Twitter

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Qantas has had to cancel a flight to London tonight after a passenger with coronavirus was on a recent flight. The airline has cancelled flight QF1 from Sydney while extra cleaning is carried out. Passengers have been moved to the next available flight.

“While Qantas Medical has assessed the risk as extremely low, we are doing some additional cleaning of those aircraft as a precaution,” a Qantas spokesperson said.

The infected passenger arrived in the country on February 28 but Qantas was only told this morning after NSW Health put out the advice around people who were on a flight last week.
Qantas cancels flight to London