Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #112

[OnlyS]

Thanks @Gemmie and @OnlyS -- I have a friend who is having some of these issues, among others (some from pre-COVID but some more recent). She has had COVID at least once but doesn't take precautions so who knows how many times she has actually had it. I'll send her that article and hope she shows her doctors -- she's been being treated for BPPV and has had mixed results. I'll encourage her to ask the docs about vestibular neuritis since that seems to be more common in that study

I would be interested to hear the feedback. I have had the Epley Manoeuvre which ‘cured’ it the first time and I do the home version to check for it and have used it this time.
Epley

 

[killarney rose]

Good information but this makes me wonder a few things. Mostly how and what they were looking for (and if their tests even looked for what the scientists look for), especially since you had a documented case of Covid.

Were they looking for the correct thing(s)? If however they were testing your blood, were they testing specifically for anti-S antibodies or anti-nucleocapsid antibodies (anti-N for short). I'm thinking likely not. Did you ask?

No. Because I didn’t know to ask. It was Life South and I figured they knew what they were doing. They are a large company that gathers blood donations in this region. I was perplexed but it’s nothing to dwell on as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Gemmie]

After I had a documented case of Covid, as well as a Covid vaccine, I gave blood. A while later I gave plasma. I asked if I had the Covid antibodies. They checked the records from when I gave blood. I had no antibodies.

As I suspected, they do not test for Covid, or specifically, anti-nucleocapsid antibodies (anti-N for short), which appears to be the only way to determine whether or not you've had a previous infection. So, when I ask a question like "do I have Covid antibodies?" and are told "No" after checking my records... my next question would be "Is covid even tested for?". My guess is the answer most likely would have been "I don't know" or "I don't see it on the list of infectious diseases we check for". I never stop at a no if it feels like a maybe. lol

Anti-S antibodies are created by both the COVID-19 vaccines and from previous COVID-19 infection. However, anti-N antibodies only come from previous COVID-19 infection.

Where I got the above info (to keep things together):

How Common are Asymptomatic COVID-19 Infections

www.bridgeportct.gov

What all the Red Cross actually tests for:

Infectious Disease Testing

www.redcrossblood.org

 

[killarney rose]

Oh well.i suppose they are more concerned with what donors will pass on to recipients than whether they’ve had Covid. At any rate, it doesn’t bother me, I don’t let the possibility that I could catch Covid dictate what I do anymore. We have to live with it and I won’t live in fear of it to the point I stay shut away in my home. I have a friend that does this. She lets the fear of possibly catching Covid dictate every trip she makes from her home. She turns down a lot of activities and caught Covid anyway.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

No. Because I didn’t know to ask. It was Life South and I figured they knew what they were doing. They are a large company that gathers blood donations in this region. I was perplexed but it’s nothing to dwell on as far as I’m concerned.

DH is a regular blood donor (into his 19th gallon) and recalls specific blood tests during the early days of Covid. The results were "reactionary" meaning that he had been vaccinated. They no longer do the Covid screening when he donates blood quarterly.

 

[Sundog]

COVID-19 Antibody Testing​

This test may be right for you if:​

• You have never been diagnosed with COVID-19 and want to know if you have been previously exposed to the virus.

(edited by me to just show this bulleted item)

COVID-19 Antibody Testing | Labcorp

Labcorp offers two convenient ways to get antibody tested to find out if you’ve had COVID-19. You can request a test through our site or visit your doctor.

www.labcorp.com

 

[Sundog]

Can Taking a Test Now Tell You if You’ve Already Had COVID-19?

The Scientist asks Brigham and Women’s Hospital infectious disease specialist Lindsey Baden about testing for prior infections.

www.the-scientist.com

If I'm reading this correctly, then it may be difficult to determine if a person who has been vaccinated for Covid-19 can be tested accurately to find out if s/he has had a covid-19 infection in the past. It may be hard to get an accurate result.

Also, this article is from 2022, and it's possible that serology testing for covid-19 antibodies has made some progress since then.


Thanks to Gemmie for helping us figure all of this out.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oh well.i suppose they are more concerned with what donors will pass on to recipients than whether they’ve had Covid. At any rate, it doesn’t bother me, I don’t let the possibility that I could catch Covid dictate what I do anymore. We have to live with it and I won’t live in fear of it to the point I stay shut away in my home. I have a friend that does this. She lets the fear of possibly catching Covid dictate every trip she makes from her home. She turns down a lot of activities and caught Covid anyway.

DH and I had a discussion about this last weekend. The brochure for a local professional theatre arrived, and DH said, "Are we ever going to go to the theatre, opera, ballet, symphony, or sporting event ever again?" These were activities that have been part of our lives forever, and due to Covid, we no longer consider attending any of them. I haven't even been to the local mall since the pandemic and do most of my shopping online. We cancelled our winter cruise this year because Covid was still prevalent on many ships. We've avoided many entertainment experiences that previously brought joy to our lives. We used to go to entertainment/sports venues or restaurants in downtown Detroit fairly regularly but haven't been downtown since that start of the pandemic. We've put many travel plans on the back burner because we don't want to fly to foreign places and be exposed to Covid and/or other diseases. While we are both in good health, we're not spring chickens (DH will be 76 in early October, I'll turn 75 next January) and hope to stay healthy for many more years. That said, it's probably not a good idea to deprive ourselves of the very things that brought us together in the first place and brought joy to our lives. JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Can Taking a Test Now Tell You if You’ve Already Had COVID-19?

The Scientist asks Brigham and Women’s Hospital infectious disease specialist Lindsey Baden about testing for prior infections.

www.the-scientist.com

If I'm reading this correctly, then it may be difficult to determine if a person who has been vaccinated for Covid-19 can be tested accurately to find out if s/he has had a covid-19 infection in the past. It may be hard to get an accurate result.

Also, this article is from 2022, and it's possible that serology testing for covid-19 antibodies has made some progress since then.


Thanks to Gemmie for helping us figure all of this out.

Great find on that article, @Sundog! Some things that stood out to me:

• An immune response to the nucleoprotein can only be from exposure to the virus. That isn’t true everywhere in the world, because there are parts of the world that use inactivated COVID vaccines, which have the whole virus. There, some of the nucleoprotein may be present and therefore stimulate that immune response.
  • Gemmie's note - Sounds like here in the states we'd have a more accurate results if we were tested for anti-N antibodies as our vaccines aren't made using inactived/killed Covid.
• So we are in the process of learning how well these serological tests behave, given that we’ve only been dealing with SARS-CoV-2 for two and a half years. There’s no way for us to know if the immune responses last for three years because we haven’t dealt with the virus that long.
  • Gemmie's note - I find the last sentence very interesting because it applies to a LOT of what we don't know about Covid because there hasn't really been that much time since the start of the pandemic. For instance, long Covid. Also what multiple infections will do to our bodies, whether they were asymptomatic or they knocked you off your feet for days/weeks. That's the part that's especially worrisome to me because of what it will do to our medical system (unable to get an appointment for a LONG time even for NON-Covid related illnesses due to potentially how many people now with issues that were caused by multiple cases of Covid).
  • If people become seriously ill down the road from what Covid did to their bodies... how will they be able to continue to work to keep an (expensive) roof over their heads, and afford food and utilities? Could they add to the homeless problem that's already way too big IMO? Will they drain SS with all the disability $$ they might receive?
• One of the other issues is understanding the biology of this immune response. Are there factors that can alter it, such as prior vaccination and then infection? Does that change the way in which the immune response [is] elicited?

 

[Sundog]

DH and I had a discussion about this last weekend. The brochure for a local professional theatre arrived, and DH said, "Are we ever going to go to the theatre, opera, ballet, symphony, or sporting event ever again?" These were activities that have been part of our lives forever, and due to Covid, we no longer consider attending any of them. I haven't even been to the local mall since the pandemic and do most of my shopping online. We cancelled our winter cruise this year because Covid was still prevalent on many ships. We've avoided many entertainment experiences that previously brought joy to our lives. We used to go to entertainment/sports venues or restaurants in downtown Detroit fairly regularly but haven't been downtown since that start of the pandemic. We've put many travel plans on the back burner because we don't want to fly to foreign places and be exposed to Covid and/or other diseases. While we are both in good health, we're not spring chickens (DH will be 76 in early October, I'll turn 75 next January) and hope to stay healthy for many more years. That said, it's probably not a good idea to deprive ourselves of the very things that brought us together in the first place and brought joy to our lives. JMO

It's the same for us, and I see the toll that isolating from Covid has taken on our lives, and know that we have to make some changes. We need to return, in some way, to the things we used to do that brought such joy into our lives.

 

[killarney rose]

There is no way I’d go on a cruise ship. They are floating Petri dishes. And I’d feel that way if Covid didn’t exist. I know several people that have taken summer cruises this year and they all came home with some type of respiratory illness. Could’ve been Covid. I doubt they tested.

We have slowly worked our way back into our normal activities. Starting with a vacation we took in ‘21 that we had put off from ‘20. We traveled Rt 66 from Oklahoma to Arizona with a side trip to CO to visit a friend. We stayed in vintage motels. We do most everything we did before 2020. But I do mostly grocery pick ups and order a lot online. I started from necessity but found I prefer it.

DH is 78 and I’m 67. We are both in good health.

 

[gremlin444]

Oh well.i suppose they are more concerned with what donors will pass on to recipients than whether they’ve had Covid. At any rate, it doesn’t bother me, I don’t let the possibility that I could catch Covid dictate what I do anymore. We have to live with it and I won’t live in fear of it to the point I stay shut away in my home. I have a friend that does this. She lets the fear of possibly catching Covid dictate every trip she makes from her home. She turns down a lot of activities and caught Covid anyway.

I'm 52. I've had Covid twice, both times brought home by my high schooler who took off his mask to eat lunch at school. I've had long Covid since the first bout, so 2 1/2 years now. My high schooler has had it 3 times and has had worsening long Covid each time. He missed 3/4 of his junior year last year because of it. He had an 8 out of 10 headache every day for 4 months starting with his last bout of Covid. I have no idea how he's going to get through his senior year with Post Exertional Malaise, inflamed rib cartilage, major memory issues, etc. I used to teach private lessons in sign language...now I teach 1 a week, and I only still have that client because she's very understanding about rescheduling last minute if the inflammation in my hand joints is bad enough to prevent me from bending my fingers and she masks for me.

All members of my family mask everywhere we go. Period--grocery store, empty waiting room while my kid is in a therapy session, etc. If a worker needs to come into our house, we mask up and explain and go on with it. No clue if we are getting funny looks--none of us care at this point.

My family doesn't live in fear--we live in practicality. I can't afford to have the all over joint pain get worse or the brain fog get to the point where I can't drive. My son can't risk getting sick again and losing his senior year of high school, much less than what the long Covid is doing to his personality and mind. And yes, it shapes our choices in our activities because it has to. Because if limiting some of our activities now means my son and I don't end up spending weeks in bed and losing what little progress we've made, so be it. There's no treatment for this--it's just throwing random meds at all the various symptoms and hoping it helps one of them and doesn't make the others worse (which it almost always does).

I'm mostly fine with missing out on concerts--if I could even manage to stand through one now, I'd be laid up in bed for days from the pain afterwards.

There is one thing I do truly miss sometimes--going out to eat in a restaurant. Sitting in a comfortable chair near a fireplace, having food I didn't cook brought to me while its still hot and served on real plates. Eating somewhere that isn't my house, a picnic in a park, or in the car in the parking lot.

Practicality doesn't mean fear.

 

[Gemmie]

I'm 52. I've had Covid twice, both times brought home by my high schooler who took off his mask to eat lunch at school. I've had long Covid since the first bout, so 2 1/2 years now. My high schooler has had it 3 times and has had worsening long Covid each time. He missed 3/4 of his junior year last year because of it. He had an 8 out of 10 headache every day for 4 months starting with his last bout of Covid. I have no idea how he's going to get through his senior year with Post Exertional Malaise, inflamed rib cartilage, major memory issues, etc. I used to teach private lessons in sign language...now I teach 1 a week, and I only still have that client because she's very understanding about rescheduling last minute if the inflammation in my hand joints is bad enough to prevent me from bending my fingers and she masks for me.

All members of my family mask everywhere we go. Period--grocery store, empty waiting room while my kid is in a therapy session, etc. If a worker needs to come into our house, we mask up and explain and go on with it. No clue if we are getting funny looks--none of us care at this point.

My family doesn't live in fear--we live in practicality. I can't afford to have the all over joint pain get worse or the brain fog get to the point where I can't drive. My son can't risk getting sick again and losing his senior year of high school, much less than what the long Covid is doing to his personality and mind. And yes, it shapes our choices in our activities because it has to. Because if limiting some of our activities now means my son and I don't end up spending weeks in bed and losing what little progress we've made, so be it. There's no treatment for this--it's just throwing random meds at all the various symptoms and hoping it helps one of them and doesn't make the others worse (which it almost always does).

I'm mostly fine with missing out on concerts--if I could even manage to stand through one now, I'd be laid up in bed for days from the pain afterwards.

There is one thing I do truly miss sometimes--going out to eat in a restaurant. Sitting in a comfortable chair near a fireplace, having food I didn't cook brought to me while its still hot and served on real plates. Eating somewhere that isn't my house, a picnic in a park, or in the car in the parking lot.

Practicality doesn't mean fear.

I just wanted to explain why I Loved your post and didn't select the sad face. I love your honestness to a roomful of strangers and I love your practicality. However, I'm really sad for what you, your family, and others are going through. Like more than you can imagine which is why I too live my live in practicality, and not fear. I don't want Covid, and I know how it's spread, so I simply do things to not catch it, just like you.

What I hope for people in your situation is that long Covid completely goes away at some point. Well, and Covid period, but I've pretty much resigned myself into believing Covid itself will never go away. Long Covid, on the other hand, might. Hopefully.

 

[sds71]

After his bronze medal in the 200m, US Track and Field have confirmed Noah Lyles has Covid.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1821620937445298346

 

[Auntie Cipation]

@gremlin444 , my heart smiley response to you is not because I'm happy for your experiences, I hope you know that. It's to thank you for sharing yourself so frankly.

Edit: jinx, @Gemmie!

 

[Sundog]

I think everyone has to assess their own risk-reward situation when they are making decisions on how they want to live and actions they want to take in relation to the prevalence of covid-19 at any given time and their own personal situation (age, health, etc.).

It won't be a one-size-fits-all result, but rather it will be based on everyone's individual assessment and the choices they make which is as it should be, IMO.

Yesterday I had a medical appointment and while meeting with our family doctor he mentioned that he has been treating a lot of covid patients the last two weeks, a change from earlier this summer, and he also mentioned that he has had covid seven times between getting covid at work and from his children. The good thing is that he is youngish and healthy.

 

[OnlyS]

So even though there are those two distinct kinds of covid antibodies, you're saying there is no test (or at least not one easily obtainable) that can distinguish between them?

Also, do antibodies last longer than immunity? I know immunity (from both infection and from vaccine) wanes after a few months. Do antibodies also wane over time?



I have been cautious compared to most folks, but not nearly as much as you have. How have you not needed repair people etc in your home in four, approaching five years?

I kept just about everyone out for the first year or two, but I remember having two plumbers in relatively early to replace a leaking pipe, and feeling very nervous but too embarrassed to mask in my own home in front of folks who obviously didn't think it was a big deal.

Eventually I felt ok with a few selective largely hermitish friends coming inside for brief visits. When it's pleasant weather, I have a covered part of my porch that makes a nice visiting spot, but when it's well below freezing, or 90°F even in the shade, that's hard to ask of friends, nearly all of whom are well older than me.

Eventually I bought a HEPA filter air purifier and have used that when someone needed to be inside for more than a few minutes (side benefit -- it also pulls smoke from the air, so on days like today when my skies are socked in smoke from a distant wildfire, I've been running it and smell no smoke indoors).

Last year I twice had in a bodyworker who was trying to help me with some muscle issues. She usually worked out of a local salon but the massage room there isn't ventilated well, and when she said she had a portable table and would make home visits, I opted for that. I had the HEPA filter running the whole time. After we were done talking, when I was going to be lying on the table with her standing near my head to work on my neck muscles, I put on a mask in my own home. She did considerately ask if I wanted her to mask, but I told her it was not necessary.

Similarly, I recently had a medical procedure (colonscopy and upper GI scope) for which I needed to be anesthetized. This meant I needed someone to drive me the half hour each way to and from. (I have mostly avoided being in a shared vehicle since covid). I asked a good friend who agreed, and when I put my mask on as I got into her car, she put one on also. I know she did this only to honor my preferences, so I really appreciated it.

Once in the hospital. I kept my mask on until the last possible moment when they were ready to anesthetize me. When I woke up an hour later, my mask was back on -- the surgical crew had put it back on me once it was possible to do so. Also done from respect rather than from actual caution, as I don't think any of the crew was masked themselves during my procedures!

There are one or two friends whose homes I will visit unmasked (somewhat ironically, including the friend I described in the previous post -- I and one other friend had dinner together at her house just a few weeks ago. The last time I went to her house for dinner was well before covid, and the other times I've been inside her house since covid have been just for errands that only took a minute or two.

I consistently mask in medical offices, the drugstore and large grocery store in the nearby town, and anyplace crowded or where I will be inside for some time.

My town recently had an art gallery showing I wanted to see. The gallery is tiny and I knew it would be crowded and I would know pretty much everyone and so there would be hugging and mingling. So I wore a mask, was the only one who did. And I was in and out in maybe 20 minutes, not for covid reasons only but because I'm just not a crowd person, and honestly not much for most art either, though in this case a friend's photographs were featured and I wanted to support her and to see her photos.

My mom was in a care facility for years before covid hit, and once they allowed visitors again, I always masked there even after the requirement was eventually dropped. I do have some friends I want to visit who live at the local skilled nursing facility, and I would never consider not masking there, but I do wonder if it will be awkward since again I will be the only one masked. One of those friends has dementia and I might need to lower my mask for a moment so he can see my face and hopefully recognize me. Sigh.

As I've mentioned before, when I go to the local grocery, or the post office, or any other nonmedical office where I won't be long, I haven't been masking for the last year or maybe more. With this current spike I may resume, but maybe not.

I've even been attending the local "senior lunch" once or twice a week, and my comfort threshold is about eight or ten regulars (in a big room). If I see a bigger crowd, or several new people, I'll skip it or get my meal to go and eat at home. If I eventually get covid, these lunches are a likely source for me as it's the most nonmasked exposure I get. Yet it's one of the few social things I do. It's not even all that important to me, but it's a habit I would have to consciously break and I do enjoy the small bit of socializing that happens there. Another tradeoff. Another sigh.

Edited to delete double quote
I can understand your concern. I am taking more precautions now that it has started to increase again. Unfortunately I fly a reasonable amount for work and I had been using a nasal spray. The only time I forgot in recent months, I got Covid. Next flight will be a masked one for me.
From your post, it is great to see the consideration given by your friends, your bodyworker and the medical team, it’s reassuring. I would be the same as I see it as a courtesy we should now give each other as part of these new times.
I wish you continued covid freedom.

 

[OnlyS]

I just wanted to explain why I Loved your post and didn't select the sad face. I love your honestness to a roomful of strangers and I love your practicality. However, I'm really sad for what you, your family, and others are going through. Like more than you can imagine which is why I too live my live in practicality, and not fear. I don't want Covid, and I know how it's spread, so I simply do things to not catch it, just like you.

What I hope for people in your situation is that long Covid completely goes away at some point. Well, and Covid period, but I've pretty much resigned myself into believing Covid itself will never go away. Long Covid, on the other hand, might. Hopefully.

Ditto. I couldn’t have put it better myself.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Today my ex (not quite a covid denier but very close, bragged about never wearing a mask etc) stopped by my house and we had a brief chat sitting outside. He asked me if I remembered about a month ago when we had had lunch together at our local restaurant (usually quite empty). A friend had stopped at our table to say hello, and while she was chatting with us, someone behind her sneezed and the friend (a former nurse) pulled her shirt collar over her face in an attempt to protect her face.

I hadn't seen my ex since then, though we've had occasional email contact. Well, today he told me that the next day after that lunch, he had gotten sick. He had a high fever for several days and was sick for something like three weeks. Of course he didn't test but assumes it was likely covid.

He said he had been reluctant to tell me because he thought I would be all "I told you so" about not getting vaccinated. I would never! (probably )

Anyway he's still in complete denial and doesn't even want to hear information about the idea that there might be longterm effects from covid. So I didn't even try to have that conversation today.

But it spooked me a bit -- I didn't get sick but of course I might have contracted an asymptomatic case from that same visit, how would I know? And I need to tell my former nurse friend too, just so she's aware that was a likely exposure.

I am actually headed to that same restaurant for dinner with a friend tonight but we plan to sit outside.

The early Burning Man traffic has started to pass through my area, so this will probably be the last time for a month or so that I go into a resturant or local shop, while all the nonlocal viruses make their way through the area. I love to see the folks passing through, but I don't love the infusion of new germs it inevitably brings.

 

[gremlin444]

The early Burning Man traffic has started to pass through my area, so this will probably be the last time for a month or so that I go into a resturant or local shop, while all the nonlocal viruses make their way through the area. I love to see the folks passing through, but I don't love the infusion of new germs it inevitably brings.

Honestly, I'm surprised he even admitted it to you.

I'm in a suburb directly next to Chicago...the big Air and Water show at the lakefront is this weekend, my teen's school starts next week, and the week after that is the DNC in Chicago. *sigh* I'm seeing on local Facebook groups that several of our pharmacies are out of Paxlovid already. Time to go order more Covid tests on Amazon since the store shelves will be bare of them in a week or two.