Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #57

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Not sure if this news item belongs on this thread or not, but it is possibly relevant, imo. fwiw.
Chinese ambassador to Israel found dead in home
May 17, 2020
''JERUSALEM -- The Chinese ambassador to Israel was found dead in his home north of Tel Aviv on Sunday, Israel's Foreign Ministry said.
No cause of death was given and Israeli police said it was investigating.''

''The ambassador's death comes just two days after he condemned comments by visiting U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who denounced Chinese investments in Israel and accused China of hiding information about the coronavirus outbreak.''
 
I had a relative admitted to the hospital on Friday after a visit to her cardiologist- there was only one other person in the ER.
Delay of elective surgery, definitely less vehicles on the road, some afraid to come in.
Told her that particular hospital was not set up to handle CV patients and suspected cases were being sent to two other local hospitals.
That sounds like such a good idea. To set up a hospital in each area to not take on covid cases, so people who need care for other reasons can get care. We definitely had a lot of extra deaths, that could be at least in part due to people dying because they are too afraid to go to a hospital for conditions such as a heart attack or a stroke. I mean, those conditions didn't just go away because of covid. But if people are afraid to go to a hospital, they could be dying from something that can be treatable.
 
Yes, people follow rules in a Communist country. Not following them can get you killed. Are you really advocating for the US to become a Communist country? Unbelievable.

No, I think SoCalDave is advocating that, for once, Americans just follow some really simple rules. You know, like turning off your lights in Hawaii or California as asked during World War II.

Like that. Cooperation in trying to control a major health issue.

BTW, there Asian societies with very high compliance that are not part of China. Like Japan. Or Singapore. Even Malaysia (which is poorer than the other two).
 
IMO Gov Walz, despite what he said, "folded" to pressure to reopen the economy. It makes no sense when the stats are moving up.
There is a lot of this going on. Most states are not going down in cases. The two states that are going down are New York and New Jersey. The rest are opening up even though their cases are not even on a real decline or in some states still going up.
 
''Minnesota had the second-highest increase in new cases in early May according to the Reuters analysis, as work to expand testing in the state revealed new cases''

So, now they're ready to re-open tomorrow.

See how that works?

Yeah---me either.

It looks like those 699 new cases are all they have now because the others have recovered. That's how I read that - See below.

"Since March 5, state officials and hospitals have tested more than 150,000 people for the presence of COVID-19, and diagnosed 15,668 cases of the novel viral illness. Most of those patients have since returned to health. As of Sunday’s tally, 9,571 people with confirmed cases of the illness no longer need to remain in isolation."
 
Well I agree 121k would be bad as 90k looks bad in the US now of course, but with Sweden there was no lockdown, presumably no recession or unemployment or furlough costs and will be no second wave hopefully. That's how it does not look too bad IMO especially after removing the 50% care home deaths which are not seemingly improved by a lockdown. US and UK have had lockdowns and very high deaths, plus recession, high furlough costs and an expected second wave still to come.

Actually, Sweden is having economic side effects similar to those of many US states. As it turned out, people in Sweden didn't need to be told to stay home or threatened with legal action (which was part of the point of the Swedish health strategy).

But people did stay home. And borders are shut down. And there's no tourism. People are not eating out, restaurants and other service sectors are suffering. Swedish people have in fact restricted their actions more and more, even in the past week, people are more fearful of going out (Google Analytics; personal communication with some Swedes).

TBF, of course the economic effects in the US and UK are much worse. However, Sweden is different to the UK or US by having enough hospital beds (ICU, ventilators) and medical supplies (PPE, other supplies) that the higher number of deaths per capita didn't overwhelm their system.

In parts of the US, there are states/counties that are as lucky as Sweden, in terms of hospital beds. I think they should be reopening at a different pace (but of course, that's not what's happening). Everywhere, people are gradually just going back to their previous ways of doing things. If they can get away with it. Watching LE cite illegal parking at the side of a road near a popular (and technically closed to use) hiking trail. There's a tiny parking lot - they're not citing those cars, just all the others parked illegally. Thing is, LE wouldn't be there on a sunny May morning if it were not for CoVid and the place wasn't technically closed.

The recession is going to be global. The mere fact that China is rethinking its entire strategy of shipping/traveling to the rest of the world is huge. The UK and the US will likely be put on rosters of "no travel" for many other nations. It's possible Sweden will be too. All of the nations higher on the per capita list than one's own are going to seem super unattractive, both to tourists and to officials..

This thing was a game-changer, on many levels. For those of us living in localities where the per capita rate of death is much, much lower than in Sweden or urban UK, we will be impacted by things from afar, despite any local decisions we make.

IMO.
 
By Reuters,  May 17, 2020, at 9:24 a.m.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...-in-places-reopening-us-health-secretary-says
So Far, No Spike in Coronavirus in Places Reopening, U.S. Health Secretary Says

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. authorities are not yet seeing spikes in corona virus cases in places that are reopening but it was still too early to determine such trends, health secretary Alex Azar said on Sunday.

"We are seeing that in places that are opening, we're not seeing this spike in cases," Azar said on CNN's "State of the Union" program. "We still see spikes in some areas that are, in fact, closed."

Asked about images being broadcast from some areas of the country showing people gathering near bars and congregating close together, Azar said that was the cost of freedom.

"I think in any individual instance you're going to see people doing things that are irresponsible. That's part of the freedom that we have here in America," he said on CNN.

Crowds flock to Virginia beaches despite Northam's stay-at-home order ... Apparently this is freedom ...NO?

Warm weather draws crowds to the oceanfront, Saturday, May 16, 2020 in Virginia Beach, Va. (Kaitlin McKeown/The Daily Press via AP)

I really don't think this analysis is accurate, but people hear what they want to hear, and see what they want to see, and dig whatever point of view they dig.
 
No, I think SoCalDave is advocating that, for once, Americans just follow some really simple rules. You know, like turning off your lights in Hawaii or California as asked during World War II.

Like that. Cooperation in trying to control a major health issue.

BTW, there Asian societies with very high compliance that are not part of China. Like Japan. Or Singapore. Even Malaysia (which is poorer than the other two).

He referenced Shanghai, not Asians in general, though. That's what I addressed.
 
Actually, Sweden is having economic side effects similar to those of many US states. As it turned out, people in Sweden didn't need to be told to stay home or threatened with legal action (which was part of the point of the Swedish health strategy).

But people did stay home. And borders are shut down. And there's no tourism. People are not eating out, restaurants and other service sectors are suffering. Swedish people have in fact restricted their actions more and more, even in the past week, people are more fearful of going out (Google Analytics; personal communication with some Swedes).

TBF, of course the economic effects in the US and UK are much worse. However, Sweden is different to the UK or US by having enough hospital beds (ICU, ventilators) and medical supplies (PPE, other supplies) that the higher number of deaths per capita didn't overwhelm their system.

In parts of the US, there are states/counties that are as lucky as Sweden, in terms of hospital beds. I think they should be reopening at a different pace (but of course, that's not what's happening). Everywhere, people are gradually just going back to their previous ways of doing things. If they can get away with it. Watching LE cite illegal parking at the side of a road near a popular (and technically closed to use) hiking trail. There's a tiny parking lot - they're not citing those cars, just all the others parked illegally. Thing is, LE wouldn't be there on a sunny May morning if it were not for CoVid and the place wasn't technically closed.

The recession is going to be global. The mere fact that China is rethinking its entire strategy of shipping/traveling to the rest of the world is huge. The UK and the US will likely be put on rosters of "no travel" for many other nations. It's possible Sweden will be too. All of the nations higher on the per capita list than one's own are going to seem super unattractive, both to tourists and to officials..

This thing was a game-changer, on many levels. For those of us living in localities where the per capita rate of death is much, much lower than in Sweden or urban UK, we will be impacted by things from afar, despite any local decisions we make.

IMO.
UK ventilators were not overwhelmed AFAIK and we had plenty of beds in the end as the Nightingale hospitals were not even used in several locations. Sweden will not have a second wave or have unemployment or furlough costs. More than half the deaths were in care homes so a lockdown would not have made any difference to those deaths. This would then reduce their total deaths to less than 2,000. Regarding travel, European countries are just beginning to discuss this as we emerge from lockdown. And of course, it is not necessary to fly as rail and road links are good. Freight has not been affected much at all. Regarding the recession, my view is that there will be a mini spending spree as people come out of lock down but that is just how I think people will react. This is my hope anyway.
MOO.
 
There is a lot of this going on. Most states are not going down in cases. The two states that are going down are New York and New Jersey. The rest are opening up even though their cases are not even on a real decline or in some states still going up.

Yes, the data suggest that in the hardest hit states, rates really are coming down, fairly steadily. There will be bumps in the road. But the case rates are going up in the states that reopening, of course (to be expected). We don't know how quickly they'll go up. We have to keep in mind that this disease grows exponentially. Look at the church in Butte County, California. They jumped the gun, decided to have a Mother's Day church service, and 180 new cases resulted from just that single 2 hour event.

Having someone breathing, while closer to you than 6 meters, it takes about 14 minutes to gather enough virions in your membranes (especially your eyes) to contract the disease.

And while certainly, this is an age-graded disease, the median age is lower in the US and UK than elsewhere, due to underlying conditions. So, in states where the rates of underlying conditions (like diabetes) are already high, there will be higher mortality. 25% of the CoVid dead in the US are diabetics, and the age range for them is much different than for people-at-large.

So let's say we have a long tail of (optimistically) 1000 deaths per day. That's 250 diabetics per day. If 250 people were being hit as pedestrians per day, we'd be shocked and call for major changes in street design and so forth. We'd warn people not to cross the street until the problem was solved.

And when a person decided to cross the street, the ensuing death would be only theirs - not impacting health or mortality for the non-crossers (so CoVid entails even more personal responsibility than car driving or walking across intersections).

1000 deaths per day is 30,000 deaths per month (approximately the entire number of ANNUAL deaths in car accidents, pedestrians included).

At what point will it be "few enough" deaths? 15,000 a month is still a lot. It would remain the leading healthcare nightmare in the US for years, pushing other illnesses to the bottom of the list and reshaping how preventive medicine works and which doctors stay in business.

BTW, many jurisdictions don't report deaths on the weekends (my county doesn't). It takes 3-7 days for symptoms to show up, which is what prompts people to go get tested and the case rate to go up. States have barely reopened.

It's entirely too early to make any claims about reopening. But I will say that I'm very interested in overall mortality rates, in the end. Georgia's rate looks to be about 14 deaths per 100,000 residents - so if it were on the international list, by itself, that would be very low. I hope that helps contextualize their eagerness to reopen.

Michigan's is closer to 50 in 100,000. Concerning.

I've posted links about these topics before. The data on deaths per place are publicly available and posted many times a day here (worldometer is a good source or just Google "Covid _______ state name."

But one can easily see how even Michigan pales in comparison to places with ~500 deaths per 100,000. US as a whole is 260 per 100,000 last time I checked. If we backed New York out of that data, it would be ~125, IIRC.
 
There is a lot of this going on. Most states are not going down in cases. The two states that are going down are New York and New Jersey. The rest are opening up even though their cases are not even on a real decline or in some states still going up.

I think it might be good to look at hospitalizations as well. Increased testing is going to raise positive cases, assuming a state is keeping up on testing. Jmo
 
Yes, the data suggest that in the hardest hit states, rates really are coming down, fairly steadily. There will be bumps in the road. But the case rates are going up in the states that reopening, of course (to be expected). We don't know how quickly they'll go up. We have to keep in mind that this disease grows exponentially. Look at the church in Butte County, California. They jumped the gun, decided to have a Mother's Day church service, and 180 new cases resulted from just that single 2 hour event.

Having someone breathing, while closer to you than 6 meters, it takes about 14 minutes to gather enough virions in your membranes (especially your eyes) to contract the disease.

And while certainly, this is an age-graded disease, the median age is lower in the US and UK than elsewhere, due to underlying conditions. So, in states where the rates of underlying conditions (like diabetes) are already high, there will be higher mortality. 25% of the CoVid dead in the US are diabetics, and the age range for them is much different than for people-at-large.

So let's say we have a long tail of (optimistically) 1000 deaths per day. That's 250 diabetics per day. If 250 people were being hit as pedestrians per day, we'd be shocked and call for major changes in street design and so forth. We'd warn people not to cross the street until the problem was solved.

And when a person decided to cross the street, the ensuing death would be only theirs - not impacting health or mortality for the non-crossers (so CoVid entails even more personal responsibility than car driving or walking across intersections).

1000 deaths per day is 30,000 deaths per month (approximately the entire number of ANNUAL deaths in car accidents, pedestrians included).

At what point will it be "few enough" deaths? 15,000 a month is still a lot. It would remain the leading healthcare nightmare in the US for years, pushing other illnesses to the bottom of the list and reshaping how preventive medicine works and which doctors stay in business.

BTW, many jurisdictions don't report deaths on the weekends (my county doesn't). It takes 3-7 days for symptoms to show up, which is what prompts people to go get tested and the case rate to go up. States have barely reopened.

It's entirely too early to make any claims about reopening. But I will say that I'm very interested in overall mortality rates, in the end. Georgia's rate looks to be about 14 deaths per 100,000 residents - so if it were on the international list, by itself, that would be very low. I hope that helps contextualize their eagerness to reopen.

Michigan's is closer to 50 in 100,000. Concerning.

I've posted links about these topics before. The data on deaths per place are publicly available and posted many times a day here (worldometer is a good source or just Google "Covid _______ state name."

But one can easily see how even Michigan pales in comparison to places with ~500 deaths per 100,000. US as a whole is 260 per 100,000 last time I checked. If we backed New York out of that data, it would be ~125, IIRC.

I'm looking at worldmeter and its telling me the US is around 270 deaths per 1,000,000. Are we using the same one? Link is what I've been using:

United States Coronavirus: 1,524,079 Cases and 90,893 Deaths - Worldometer
 
Not sure if this news item belongs on this thread or not, but it is possibly relevant, imo. fwiw.
Chinese ambassador to Israel found dead in home

''The ambassador's death comes just two days after he condemned comments by visiting U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who denounced Chinese investments in Israel and accused China of hiding information about the coronavirus outbreak.''

Well, now that does not make it look at all suspicious. I'm sure they'll have a realistic cause of death.
 
UK ventilators were not overwhelmed AFAIK and we had plenty of beds in the end as the Nightingale hospitals were not even used in several locations. Sweden will not have a second wave or have unemployment or furlough costs. More than half the deaths were in care homes so a lockdown would not have made any difference to those deaths. This would then reduce their total deaths to less than 2,000. Regarding travel, European countries are just beginning to discuss this as we emerge from lockdown. And of course, it is not necessary to fly as rail and road links are good. Freight has not been affected much at all. Regarding the recession, my view is that there will be a mini spending spree as people come out of lock down but that is just how I think people will react. This is my hope anyway.
MOO.

That's great. So it becomes even harder to explain your large per capita death rates. What do you think it is? Your medical system didn't fail (which is what happened in Lombardy and New York).

I was, btw, trying to talk about Sweden's gamble. UK took the same gamble, had a lot of at-home deaths and nursing home deaths. You seem to be saying those were unavoidable in any case.

But can you say why the rates in UK are so much higher than in, say, Ireland? Ireland also had plenty of beds (keep in mind that my point is that New York and Lombardy did not and their death rates soared).

So let's just stipulate, for argument's state, that the UK's healthcare system handled this ably.

Stockholm may account for a larger percentage of mortality in Sweden - it would be interesting to compare Stockholm's rate to London's. Both nations have found a correlation between vitamin D levels and severity/mortality of CoVid.

But what about other variables? Is it really going to end up being London and Stockholm (cities) - and they are on par with each other? If so, I predict the flight of businesses from big cities will continue. Office real estate in big cities will see the bottom drop out of the market, and relatively deserted streets in major downtowns.

450,000 or so people have fled Manhattan. How many will return? Swedes say people left Stockholm, too. Did people leave London, I wonder? Truly don't know.
 
Costco & Walmart among grocery stores with COVID-19 outbreaks

“COLORADO, USA — There are now six grocery stores with COVID-19 outbreaks in Colorado.”

Man, it's hard to like this post, as it's such grim news. It turns out that indoor, cold/air conditioned areas allow the virus to linger longer. My cousin works in the grocery distribution chain in Colorado and I'm very worried about him, as all of the crews he oversees have to be trained in going in and out of big coolers, freezers, etc., and using refrigerated trucks, dollies, breathing hard, etc.

The back areas of grocery stores in Colorado are often kept cooler as well.

Another weird hypothesis (my own, so far as I know) is that people who work night shifts and sleep during the day may have less Vitamin D than others...so let's hope that most of these new cases are not serious. Packing houses in general, grocery supply chain...and trucks that visit those places are all vectors.

The vulnerable need to stay home a bit longer, IMO.
 

As a Texan...rolling my eyes. We are still distancing here at my house.

Not sure if this news item belongs on this thread or not, but it is possibly relevant, imo. fwiw.
Chinese ambassador to Israel found dead in home
May 17, 2020
''JERUSALEM -- The Chinese ambassador to Israel was found dead in his home north of Tel Aviv on Sunday, Israel's Foreign Ministry said.
No cause of death was given and Israeli police said it was investigating.''

''The ambassador's death comes just two days after he condemned comments by visiting U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who denounced Chinese investments in Israel and accused China of hiding information about the coronavirus outbreak.''

100% belongs in this thread (MOO).

That sounds like such a good idea. To set up a hospital in each area to not take on covid cases, so people who need care for other reasons can get care. We definitely had a lot of extra deaths, that could be at least in part due to people dying because they are too afraid to go to a hospital for conditions such as a heart attack or a stroke. I mean, those conditions didn't just go away because of covid. But if people are afraid to go to a hospital, they could be dying from something that can be treatable.

Dr. Campbell on YouTube has discussed this extensively. He keeps telling people to go to the hospital if they need to.

There is a lot of this going on. Most states are not going down in cases. The two states that are going down are New York and New Jersey. The rest are opening up even though their cases are not even on a real decline or in some states still going up.

And their rates are only going down b/c their lockdown measures were so effective, and NY is only opening up *very* gradually. A model for the rest of us, IMO.

Actually, Sweden is having economic side effects similar to those of many US states. As it turned out, people in Sweden didn't need to be told to stay home or threatened with legal action (which was part of the point of the Swedish health strategy).

But people did stay home. And borders are shut down. And there's no tourism. People are not eating out, restaurants and other service sectors are suffering. Swedish people have in fact restricted their actions more and more, even in the past week, people are more fearful of going out (Google Analytics; personal communication with some Swedes).

TBF, of course the economic effects in the US and UK are much worse. However, Sweden is different to the UK or US by having enough hospital beds (ICU, ventilators) and medical supplies (PPE, other supplies) that the higher number of deaths per capita didn't overwhelm their system.

In parts of the US, there are states/counties that are as lucky as Sweden, in terms of hospital beds. I think they should be reopening at a different pace (but of course, that's not what's happening). Everywhere, people are gradually just going back to their previous ways of doing things. If they can get away with it. Watching LE cite illegal parking at the side of a road near a popular (and technically closed to use) hiking trail. There's a tiny parking lot - they're not citing those cars, just all the others parked illegally. Thing is, LE wouldn't be there on a sunny May morning if it were not for CoVid and the place wasn't technically closed.

The recession is going to be global. The mere fact that China is rethinking its entire strategy of shipping/traveling to the rest of the world is huge. The UK and the US will likely be put on rosters of "no travel" for many other nations. It's possible Sweden will be too. All of the nations higher on the per capita list than one's own are going to seem super unattractive, both to tourists and to officials..

This thing was a game-changer, on many levels. For those of us living in localities where the per capita rate of death is much, much lower than in Sweden or urban UK, we will be impacted by things from afar, despite any local decisions we make.

IMO.

As well, prices for so many things will go way up in the US if we aren't buying things made in China.

Edited for spelling.
 
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