Silver Alert CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 #15 *ARRESTS*

[Bulldogs2]

The court doesn't have jurisdiction over her so she would not be formally notified. I'm sure he told her though.

And I agree with your assessment of her.

IDK. I think that FD and JD had vastly different personalities . I think FD and MT are attracted to each other because they are the same type of personality . They match. They are both gold diggers gold digging each other. They both appear to be stuck in adolescence and are adrenaline seekers - always looking for excitement whereas JD is a responsible adult. Their behavior is not surprising of adults who never move emotionally past adolescence, alas the narcissistic. There are plenty of divorce cases where the parties date and move on with relationships while proceedings are still going on. I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do but it happens on a regular basis. I think in their immature minds they love each other and that neither saw any harm in her moving in. Again, not saying it’s right but trying to psychologically see where they are in their minds. By no means using this as an excuse to what happened. I think they fully intended to be together after the divorce - in their own reality. They are takers and that’s why they are together. They take from each other and others as well. Time will tell if MT planned with him and we may never know.

 

[Bulldogs2]

The court doesn't have jurisdiction over her so she would not be formally notified. I'm sure he told her though.

And I agree with your assessment of her.

IDK. I think that FD and JD had vastly different personalities . I think FD and MT are attracted to each other because they are the same type of personality . They match. They are both gold diggers gold digging each other. They both appear to be stuck in adolescence and are adrenaline seekers - always looking for excitement whereas JD is a responsible adult. Their behavior is not surprising of adults who never move emotionally past adolescence, alas the narcissistic. There are plenty of divorce cases where the parties date and move on with relationships while proceedings are still going on. I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do but it happens on a regular basis. I think in their immature minds they love each other and that neither saw any harm in her moving in. Again, not saying it’s right but trying to psychologically see where they are in their minds. By no means using this as an excuse to what happened. I think they fully intended to be together after the divorce - in their own reality. They are takers and that’s why they are together. They take from each other and others as well. Time will tell if MT planned with him and we may never know.

 

[Bulldogs2]

IDK. I think that FD and JD had vastly different personalities . I think FD and MT are attracted to each other because they are the same type of personality . They match. They are both gold diggers gold digging each other. They both appear to be stuck in adolescence and are adrenaline seekers - always looking for excitement whereas JD is a responsible adult. Their behavior is not surprising of adults who never move emotionally past adolescence, alas the narcissistic. There are plenty of divorce cases where the parties date and move on with relationships while proceedings are still going on. I’m not saying that’s the right thing to do but it happens on a regular basis. I think in their immature minds they love each other and that neither saw any harm in her moving in. Again, not saying it’s right but trying to psychologically see where they are in their minds. By no means using this as an excuse to what happened. I think they fully intended to be together after the divorce - in their own reality. They are takers and that’s why they are together. They take from each other and others as well. Time will tell if MT planned with him and we may never know.

sorry about the double post

 

[Spyderlady]

Perhaps gitana1 can weigh in here but myself being in the psychiatric field can give some insight . I’m pretty sure that court documents during the divorce say that FD was caught having MT around the children prior to judge Heller instituting the supervised visitation . FD had regular joint custody of the children for almost the entire time of the divorce action except the last 2 months . JD and her attys we’re trying to get that changed throughout, but in CT courts usually want joint custody. I think it was stipulated that he couldn’t have MT around the children and he ignored that and then tried to have the children lie for him to say MT wasn’t around. I think that coupled with FD blatant disregard for court rules throughout that year and 7 months of divorce proceedings including not producing financial info, not paying health insurance , child support etc, coupled with the over 300 motions they filed against one another with JD stating that she was afraid , verbal and emotional abuse, harsh competitiveness with the children- I think the judge was able to get a more clear picture of FD during that time but the blatant disregard for honoring court rules likely pushed it over the edge so she ordered the supervised visits . I think I also read somewhere that one child text JD that he didn’t want to participate in the waterski activity and that FD was really pushing . I think I read the child had a very difficult time and may have made some self harm comments . Somewhere in this last order I think judge Heller insinuated this. Also we are not privy to the psychological evals but there also may have been something in the children’s evals or they may have said something to their therapist . All in all combined I think it took judge Heller awhile to come to the conclusion that DV is going on and situation is emotionally harming the children . In CT, the court tries very hard to have joint custody and it usually takes something big to order supervision . I personally have done supervised visitations with families and it usually means that a parent (s) have a significant psychological impediment that they are not capable of being alone with the children so as they may cause psychological harm to the children. I hope that’s as clear as mud.

Thank you for the info, Bulldogs. My main concern is that FD is out on bond and if it would be easy for him to shed his ankle monitor and drive to NYC and make contact with the children. I assume/hope they have bodyguards, but it must be a terribly restrictive life for them compared to their life in CT. My heart goes out to them.

 

[afitzy]

At one time I thought MT was returning a purse left behind to a friend around that time . Now she’s at a store. Then later she’s on Albany ave. She sure gets around. I think he wants to confuse potential jury pool to cast doubt.

Yes

Didn't JD hire a PI to verify that MT (and her daughter?) were present when the Dulos children were with FD? I think I read that somewhere...perhaps before the court records were sealed.

The thing about all the Pattis Patter is that I believe it to be simply noise rather than fact based conversation.

I don't believe Atty Bowman is in communication with Pattis & Crew and if MT is smart (this is a questionable assumption but I'm going with it for now because I believe her mother is in charge and MT is going to do what it takes legally to minimize her time in prison!) that she is staying in line with the non contact order orchestrated by her atty.

There is no requirement that anything Pattis says outside of court has to be true. He views this freeform conversation about nothingness that has been happening since this case started as part of his aggressive campaign to defend his client FD. We will have to wait for trial to see how effective the campaign has been.

I've been keeping an informal list of Pattis Patter since JD went missing. I'm focusing mainly on his whopper sized fabrications. But other than when Pattis stated the charges that the State had brought against his client thus far, I'm not sure much that is remotely factually correct has been contained in the Pattis Patter IMO.

No Case Norm loves to talk about nothing and with no information and most of all he loves to talk about everyone that is not his client. He must love chatting to the media because there are none of the pesky requirements associated with evidence and procedure that are present in court. Nope. Outside of court No Case Norm is free to talk about whatever and with next to no consequences. No Case Norm believes he has the superpower of casting doubt. Perhaps, but so far as I have seen the only place that doubt is being cast is on his client. IMO the approach so far has appeared highly disorganized and quite unfocused and has principally involved victim shaming of a missing mother of 5. I wish an all female jury on No Case Norm and we shall see how his victim shaming strategy flies!

 

[Jmoose]

Don't believe this has been posted before...Thank you finding and posting it!

Between the criminal, civil, and family aspects of this legal web, the logistics are staggering. It seems logical that MT could sit for the deposition and invoke her 5th Amendment rights if necessary, but I'm suspect the criminal case against her might prevent her from responding to many of the questions. However, simple questions related to how many homes FD sold while she was employed by FoRe Group shouldn't impact her criminal charges, right??????

It will be interesting to see if there is a hearing on the deposition.

I am under the impression that if you invoke your 5th amendment rights, you cannot pick and choose which questions you will answer-that if you won’t answer one, you cannot answer any. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

 

[Curious in CT]

FD would have bigger problems than LE or foreclosure if he tried to put his ankle bracelet on my cat.

I agree. I think he will try to run. That’s why he wants the monitor moved to his wrist so he can take it off easier. Thinking....what can a person do to make his wrists swell? Have the monitor put on the wrist, leaves monitoring center, goes home, stops doing whatever he was doing to make the wrists swell, the swelling goes down, slips monitor off and leaves. Like I said before, put it on a cat or dog in the house so it looks like he is moving around in the house OR take it off as he ‘goes to bed’, leaves it on the bed as ‘if sleeping’ and leaves. He could get a 6 hour head start. Bet he has fake passport already waiting somewhere.

Taking the kids would be a burden, slow him down, and he could not hide as easy. Also, 5 kids would cost him more when escaping.

This case is so bizarre anything can happen.

Like WS has said in the past, Follow the Money and gitana1 and others mentioned above....money.

I agree. I think he will try to run. That’s why he wants the monitor moved to his wrist so he can take it off easier. Thinking....what can a person do to make his wrists swell? Have the monitor put on the wrist, leaves monitoring center, goes home, stops doing whatever he was doing to make the wrists swell, the swelling goes down, slips monitor off and leaves. Like I said before, put it on a cat or dog in the house so it looks like he is moving around in the house OR take it off as he ‘goes to bed’, leaves it on the bed as ‘if sleeping’ and leaves. He could get a 6 hour head start. Bet he has fake passport already waiting somewhere.

Taking the kids would be a burden, slow him down, and he could not hide as easy. Also, 5 kids would cost him more when escaping.

This case is so bizarre anything can happen.

Like WS has said in the past, Follow the Money and gitana1 and others mentioned above....money.

 

[hivee]

Perhaps gitana1 can weigh in here but myself being in the psychiatric field can give some insight . I’m pretty sure that court documents during the divorce say that FD was caught having MT around the children prior to judge Heller instituting the supervised visitation . FD had regular joint custody of the children for almost the entire time of the divorce action except the last 2 months . JD and her attys we’re trying to get that changed throughout, but in CT courts usually want joint custody. I think it was stipulated that he couldn’t have MT around the children and he ignored that and then tried to have the children lie for him to say MT wasn’t around. I think that coupled with FD blatant disregard for court rules throughout that year and 7 months of divorce proceedings including not producing financial info, not paying health insurance , child support etc, coupled with the over 300 motions they filed against one another with JD stating that she was afraid , verbal and emotional abuse, harsh competitiveness with the children- I think the judge was able to get a more clear picture of FD during that time but the blatant disregard for honoring court rules likely pushed it over the edge so she ordered the supervised visits . I think I also read somewhere that one child text JD that he didn’t want to participate in the waterski activity and that FD was really pushing . I think I read the child had a very difficult time and may have made some self harm comments . Somewhere in this last order I think judge Heller insinuated this. Also we are not privy to the psychological evals but there also may have been something in the children’s evals or they may have said something to their therapist . All in all combined I think it took judge Heller awhile to come to the conclusion that DV is going on and situation is emotionally harming the children . In CT, the court tries very hard to have joint custody and it usually takes something big to order supervision . I personally have done supervised visitations with families and it usually means that a parent (s) have a significant psychological impediment that they are not capable of being alone with the children so as they may cause psychological harm to the children. I hope that’s as clear as mud.

I wish it would not take so long to come to the conclusion that DV is going on.

It should be very evident, especially if it’s textbook. There needs to be more education. Can this be changed/improved?

IMO, women do everything they can to “cry for help.” And this case proves there doesn’t have to be a history of physical assaults for something dangerous to happen down the line. Most abusers eventually get physical.

 

[thekirbyfamily]

Yes


The thing about all the Pattis Patter is that I believe it to be simply noise rather than fact based conversation.

I don't believe Atty Bowman is in communication with Pattis & Crew and if MT is smart (this is a questionable assumption but I'm going with it for now because I believe her mother is in charge and MT is going to do what it takes legally to minimize her time in prison!) that she is staying in line with the non contact order orchestrated by her atty.

There is no requirement that anything Pattis says outside of court has to be true. He views this freeform conversation about nothingness that has been happening since this case started as part of his aggressive campaign to defend his client FD. We will have to wait for trial to see how effective the campaign has been.

I've been keeping an informal list of Pattis Patter since JD went missing. I'm focusing mainly on his whopper sized fabrications. But other than when Pattis stated the charges that the State had brought against his client thus far, I'm not sure much that is remotely factually correct has been contained in the Pattis Patter IMO.

No Case Norm loves to talk about nothing and with no information and most of all he loves to talk about everyone that is not his client. He must love chatting to the media because there are none of the pesky requirements associated with evidence and procedure that are present in court. Nope. Outside of court No Case Norm is free to talk about whatever and with next to no consequences. No Case Norm believes he has the superpower of casting doubt. Perhaps, but so far as I have seen the only place that doubt is being cast is on his client. IMO the approach so far has appeared highly disorganized and quite unfocused and has principally involved victim shaming of a missing mother of 5. I wish an all female jury on No Case Norm and we shall see how his victim shaming strategy flies!

Maybe it should be Pattis Pitter Patter???

 

[Laughing]

I ran across this article, not sure if it’s already been posted.

Dulos case: attorneys spar over whether Michelle Troconis should give deposition

Isn't this the suit of HF's estate vs. Fore Group? According to the website & media reports, MT was employed by Fore Group, IIRC in a management position.

Shouldn't her attorney have expected this?

And if this is the divorce, well, long ago I worked for the State (not Connecticut) in Child Support Enforcement. Plenty of divorce cases involve 3rd parties.

 

[Caroline Lago]

At 5:54 when NP complains about reporters shouting "Where's the body, where's the body...and there is no body that we are aware of"...and he then proceeds to say "And I'm sick and tired of hearing about IT!". Hey, NP, IT has a name and it's Jennifer Dulos, the mother of 5 children. Your client, off whom you will profit, most likely killed her. Your sick and tired of hearing about it because you know FD knows where JD's body is and you are going to lose this case. I hope your interns are scouring sites like this to let you know how hard it's going to be for you to win.

 

[oceancalling]

I am under the impression that if you invoke your 5th amendment rights, you cannot pick and choose which questions you will answer-that if you won’t answer one, you cannot answer any. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

A witness must answer any question that does require them to incriminate themselves. In other words, there is no such thing as a blanket invocation. Do witnesses attempt to avoid answering all questions? Sure, but competent counsel will continue to ask specific questions, and the witness will be called upon to invoke as to each question.

The standard is whether the witness has a reasonable fear the question may lead to information which might be incriminatory. This standard is somewhat subjective, but it does not give the witness the unlimited right to avoid answering questions. If a motion to compel is filed, the court makes the determination about whether the witness must answer each question asked. Often, in high stakes criminal cases, the motion to compel is sealed and the issue in litigated in camera-which means the public/media is not allowed to attend the hearing.

Despite his public protestations to the contrary, FD has no right to require that MT be given immunity from prosecution, nor can he insist that she answer questions if those answers would incriminate her. As a criminal defense practitioner, he absolutely KNOWS he cannot make MT testify on behalf of FD once she has invoked her 5th. At least where I live, NP cannot even ask that MT invoke her 5th in front of a jury, as that invocation is deemed too prejudicial to the administration of justice.

Again, as an experienced defender, NP knows the rules, but he is choosing to ignore them. IMO MT's lawyer is never, ever going to let his client get on the stand unless she testifies for the state. She has nothing to gain and lots to lose if she lies about her culpability for this crime. Why would her lawyer ever take the risk of letting her commit perjury to protect FD???

MT has the opportunity to help herself and do the right thing. Whether she will do so remains to be seen. She must have some dirt on FD because NP is doing everything possible to influence her testimony. He clearly views her as a dangerous witness, one who has to be neutralized. His obsession with trying to keep her in line tells me everything I need to know about her involvement in this crime.

From what I have seen so far, MT's lawyer is protecting his client from NP's efforts. Still, in light of MT's past actions, one has to wonder whether she will ever be truly honest and tell LE everything she knows. It is not unheard of for witnesses in her situation to attempt to tell LE "just enough" to get a deal, but not nearly all they know. This type of half-baked cooperation can be devastating to the prosecution's case.

Every time NP makes another public pronouncement about MT, he is sending her the clear message to keep her mouth shut. Why she would ever think it is a good idea to follow his instructions is another matter. I sincerely hope that her lawyer has be able to counsel her so she understands that she needs to be thinking about herself and her daughter. If she lies to protect her paramour, she could end up spending the rest of her life in prison. She cannot truly believe FD is worth that kind of sacrifice. Those who love her should be doing everything in their power to keep those two apart and to make her understand he is her enemy.

 

[afitzy]

Maybe it should be Pattis Pitter Patter???

When I get tired of typing Pattis Patter I abbreviate it as 'PP' which I think gets across the point of what I believe it to represent! A bit juvenile but I'm going with it!

 

[afitzy]

From what I have seen so far, MT's lawyer is protecting his client from NP's efforts. Still, in light of MT's past actions, one has to wonder whether she will ever be truly honest and tell LE everything she knows. It is not unheard of for witnesses in her situation to attempt to tell LE "just enough" to get a deal, but not nearly all they know.[BBM] This type of half-baked cooperation can be devastating to the prosecution's case.

Agree with you. Given what appears to be the 'character' of MT the risk you identify in the quote I bolded above has been one of my major concerns with the State dealing with her in this case.

From the MT behavior since the missing date as documented in the arrest warrant to the later news that when the arrest warrant was served on 4JX that MT was sitting at the computer erasing files, IMO this was not a woman interested in helping find JD and I sincerely believe she has zero interest in assisting the States case against FD.

I think I became particularly concerned about MT overall character issues when I started to read the case file in her mothers litigation for Medicare Fraud as it became clear to me what kind of people the Arrezza/Troconis family are and what lengths they will go to save their own skin while not helping others or doing the right thing. Doing the right thing is simply not in their DNA IMO. We didn't see it from the mother and I simply think its the way the children in the family were raised.

I very much hope that the State does not fall for limited testimony or half truths or partial truths and is satisfied with nothing less than the entire truth of what MT knows. I hope also that if there is any shred of doubt as to the level of cooperation from MT by the State that any deal is immediately removed and she is simply sent to trial by jury and if found guilty goes to prison on the existing charges. If MT directly participated in any way in the murder or disappearance of JD then I hope the State does not make a deal with her and I hope she is tried by jury and her fate decided.

Its been awhile since such an unsympathic and morally reprehesible character has entered the scene but IMO MT is one for the record books!

 

[doyoulovemepfg]

Thank you for the info, Bulldogs. My main concern is that FD is out on bond and if it would be easy for him to shed his ankle monitor and drive to NYC and make contact with the children. I assume/hope they have bodyguards, but it must be a terribly restrictive life for them compared to their life in CT. My heart goes out to them.

I would hope that GF is keeping them well occupied with lots of fun things to do! There are a lot of good camps and activities for kids in the city and she could’ve sent them to sleepaway camp too if MT and FD indeed are forbidden from seeing them in NY.

 

[afitzy]

I would hope that GF is keeping them well occupied with lots of fun things to do! There are a lot of good camps and activities for kids in the city and she could’ve sent them to sleepaway camp too if MT and FD indeed are forbidden from seeing them in NY.

GF is a force of nature IMO and there are few better people to take responsibility for the 5 children IMO. The present circumstances remain challenging for the children but if anyone can work through this situation with the children it is GF.

 

[isabella88]

When I get tired of typing Pattis Patter I abbreviate it as 'PP' which I think gets across the point of what I believe it to represent! A bit juvenile but I'm going with it!

Juvenile, perhaps. But quite fitting. Pattis Piddle?!

 

[BellaVita]

I would have to go back to the documents to double check the exact timing of each of the various custody arrangements but my recollection is that in 2018 FD did not see his children at all except for 2 months of supervised visitation after Judge Heller ruled that he had engaged the children to lie on his behalf on various issues including MT and her daughter being at 4Jx.

FD was required to go to therapy as he didn't understand why his engaging the children to lie on his behalf was psychologically damaging to the children. It is unclear whether the therapy had any impact on FD or whether he understood the horrible position he was placing his children in by asking them to lie on his behalf.

If I were to put a tag on this period of time I would call it, "FD Knows Best"! FD wanted his children to be in one happy family with MT and her daughter at 4Jx EVEN THOUGH the Family Court said NO.

It was stunning to me that he disregarded the formal court orders on this issue of MT and her daughter. But the more I think about the situation I really wonder why MT and her daughter would choose to be at 4Jx when the Dulos children were there as it was a known violation of court orders?

I have to think that MT knew that she was not to have contact with the Dulos children, but she persisted. Why? MT could have easily left on the weekends when the children were visiting but that doesn't appear to be what happened.

The more I think about all the issues associated with this dynamic the more twisted it becomes! MT as a mother you would think would be sensitive to the issues of Dulos children interaction with her while the divorce battle was ongoing and the custody situation was evolving.

Did we see any sensitivity or caring about the mental well being of the Dulos children from MT? Nope. IMO this is about as unfeeling and uncaring as anything we have seen from FD. MT simply didn't care about the court orders and neither did FD. MT was front and center during the children's visits and Lady of 4JX when the Dulos children came to visit. How confusing and upsetting this must have been for children that had no way of understanding exactly what was happening.

It was only after this long period of time with no visits that the supervised visits were put in place.

I think in one of the prior threads someone summarized the various changes to the custody arrangements. There were more than a few changes to the arrangements over time but I don't recall a period of what I would consider the standard dropping off/picking up children at pre established times and with a standard schdule as FD was unable to follow any standard schedule. For a period of time FD was not allowed to speak to his children on the phone and then he had phone rights with the children but they had to be supervised. Then there was the issue of speaking Greek as supposedly this was used to circumvent the supervisors understanding what was being said. So then the court had to intervene to prohibit speaking any languages that the supervisor didn't understand.

We also saw the issue early in the divorce case where FD had weekend children's visit and instead took off to CA for some event/party and left the children with his sister (not court approved caretaker) without telling JD or the GAL. The sister took the children to the ski pond and one of them got lost for a period of time and JD only found out about the situation after the fact.

In short, the custody situation with FD truly sounded horrific as there seemed to be an inability of his part to follow instructions and rules and comply with basic scheduling protocols and the behavior of FD and MT during the divorce period was consistently defiant of any/all court orders.

Normal people want nothing to do with parading themselves and their children in front of the estranged spouse and her children. It is bad enough to find yourself in the position of being a mistress (you know you are doing wrong) but normal people want to lay low and minimize the drama. But not MT and FD! It's called entitlement, no shame, guilt or remorse. She was enjoying it, IMO.

 

[Chessman]

Jennifer Dulos case: No ‘clear video’ of Fotis dumping bags, Pattis says

They should release the videos to the public. I hope the FBI is working on enhancing the video evidence.

 

[missingm]

I am under the impression that if you invoke your 5th amendment rights, you cannot pick and choose which questions you will answer-that if you won’t answer one, you cannot answer any. Does anyone know if that’s the case?

Only as it pertains to a certain subject. I have seen depositions where half of the questions were answered and the other half the person took the 5th.

In this case she could be asked and required to answer about any abuse she witnessed against the children, but could take the 5th on the Albany Ave drive. Now if she voluntarily makes statements about the Albany Ave drive in detail but takes the 5th as to whether she saw blood then that could trigger what you are talking about. (Not a lawyer, but have seen many depositions and cases)

IMO, MT wins this one since it is likely so much of his business and litigation crosses over to motivation regarding JD. I can't see how they can compel testimony and be sure to protect her rights.