***Day 1-Committal Hearing*** 11th,12,13th March 2013

[linette]

I have only just got home this even after being out in the evening. I spent the day in court and have been pondering on the day. I am yet to review my notes again. Some aspects came across less strong than I expected. Short sharp alarmed human noises that nobody went outside to investigate or call the police don't necessarily mean a furious fight. Various dogs barking or howling doesn't necessarily mean a sinister human connotation. The coroner admitted he could not determine a cause of death. In fact after examining the body he did not say he made the conclusion Alison had been murdered. The Zoloft levels in the liver were not alarming but the Mr Davies successfully established a pattern of depression over a large number of years and more is sure to come because he detailed doctors visits on 24th August 2011 when she was worried, teary and had lower mood and 19th March 2012 when Zoloft prescription was increased from 50 mg to 100 mg when she was experiencing moods swings. I am sure more of this line of questioning will continue. I was actually in a position where I could observe GBCs demeanour in the morning. Unlike some members I did not have alarm bells ringing. OW when she came in during the breaks to speak with GBC looked worried and concerned. I am sure much more will be revealed in coming days. However, if I was hearing the evidence "fresh" today without have read this site and news articles I would not have found him guilty beyong reasonable doubt on the evidence so far.

Thank you for being there today.

Let's hope that there is much more damning evidence to come , which I'm sure there is.

Really do not know how he can sit there and listen to all of this and still seem happy to talk to the officers near him. He should have talked to them months ago, not leave it til he thinks he can flirt with one.

Thank you again.

 

[bearbear]

Surely someone has spoken to the girls, they couldnt just be ignored if they were in the house that night. I wonder if they have spoken about it to their grandparents (Dickies) or someone from the legal side of things. It doesnt make sense not to speak with them.

As for the glove fingertip - could that not be examined and tested to make sure it is the same brand as the ones used by forensics. I imagine they would go through millions of gloves and therefore would have one definite supplier.

I know this sounds morbid and yuk, but I would like to have seen the body when it was found to understand the level of decomposition. I am getting the impression it was very very bad and am wondering is that normal or has it had a help along. Then if it has been helped along chemically that would show in tests surely.

also, wasnt it reported her head or brain had decomposed rather rapidly? sorry i dont have the link.

 

[Myserty64]

If GBC was laughing and smiling in court today I don't see how he did himself any favours at all.

I haven't followed this case closely since his arrest but I'm just a bit disappointed in the police case so far.
I hope they can pull out a rabbit or two from the hat over the next few days.
I badly want them to nail the suspect in this one.

It worries me the defence can create a lot of doubt with the evidence so far.

 

[bearbear]

He looked like he's rid of the spiky hair military style cut and opted for a more corporate and trendy 'prison style' which is in fashion right now. <modsnip>:furious:

i guess theres no hair gel in prison!

 

[hello people]

Gerard would have been better off telling police that he and his wife had a huge fight that night and that she scratched him and they scuffled and that she stormed off into the night...never to be seen again

That way he might have a chance of explaining away his shaving cuts and caterpillar bites

 

[bearbear]

looking at the sketch of GBC he looks like he has put on a lot of weight. Did anyone who attended today think he had? That makes me think he is starting to get comfortable in Arthur Gorrie and that he must be the first on the food line up.
I imagine someone who is in jail for something they didnt do would be very thin and stressed at all times. He is looking chunky lala in that pic.
Why couldnt he just man up and sit there so everyone could see him. Is it usual for those in the dock to be concealed from view from the rest of the courtroom?

"chunky lala" haha!
comfort eating or maybe hes on antidepressants?

 

[Zim]

Maybe events happened more outside the house than inside, and therefore children may not have heard as much as neighbours did, carried on the night stillness.

I grew up in a home of screaming parents. I will guarantee you that the children heard the fights but may not admit it. To lessen their 'witness' they would have had to be doped and which leads to premeditated ! (Phenergen !)

 

[Happygolucky]

If GBC was laughing and smiling in court today I don't see how he did himself any favours at all.

I haven't followed this case closely since his arrest but I'm just a bit disappointed in the police case so far.
I hope they can pull out a rabbit or two from the hat over the next few days.
I badly want them to nail the suspect in this one.

It worries me the defence can create a lot of doubt with the evidence so far.

I had the opportunity to observe him for the morning from where I was seated. I found his demeanour appropriate under the circumstances. I did witness a conversation at the being of a break with the officers but I did not interpret and laughing or flirting.

 

[Happygolucky]

"chunky lala" haha!
comfort eating or maybe hes on antidepressants?

I didn't think he had put on weight. The sketches show a fuller face than he had in court.

 

[spratsmum]

I haven't been on here for such a long time and am amazed so many of you have been sleuthing all through summer. I called in today for obvious reasons and I was so surprised at the in depth coverage that some of you were supplying - thank you and very well done.

I just wanted to comment on a couple, I hope they haven't been discussed in previous threads, as I was reading I wondered whether during the phone call from his mistress, GBC was asked to stop Alison from attending the conference the next day to avoid embarrassment and a potential scene.

Also someone was suggesting that the girls may have been given phenergan to keep them asleep - that would change the whole complexion of the case and would signify that it was all premeditated rather than something that got out of hand. He is charged with murder rather manslaughter, so perhaps he did plan ahead.

LI wonder if he left the girls in the house alone while he drove to Kholo Bridge?

Nice to see all the "old names" still here, and thanks again for the updates today, they were so well done. I will be back tomorrow.

 

[alioop]

I think I have found the reason for the issue with the admissibility of the Relationships Australia info.

Section 10E(1) and (2) of the Family Law Act states that there is an absolute prohibition, in all courts, on the admissibility of evidence of anything said, or any admission made, by or in the company of, a family counsellor conducting family counselling. There is only 1 exception and that is in relation to admissions of child abuse.

We will have to see how the magistrate deals with this issue.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/fla1975114/s10e.html

 

[Aunty]

Was in court today and couldn't post anything as my IPhone couldn't login. Tried so many times and eventually gave up. Have just read all the posts.
The 2 thuds?
When I was little I loved playing Little Sir Echo " how do you do, Hello etc, and in some places the echo was quite loud. Could the second identical thud, have been an echo of the first and only body hitting the ground thud? What are the acoustics like there?

Would like to add :
GBC looked like he was ready to step into his new office. Has he really been in Jail?
He looked satisfied with his team and appeared to appreciate the witnesses helping him.
He didnt agree with Danny when he accused him of murdering his wife and shook his head a few times , pursing his lips into a "No"
He didn't particularly like the view to his left, and at times he would look over as if he was thinking, do I know you? I really shouldnt be on this side of the glass.
I actually felt sad , sad for him, for Allison, the girls, their families .
There were smiles in the court room today, which felt so wrong. $ perhaps, egos ? Who knows.

I also think he acted appropriately and actually looked sincere. Very strange day.
Felt very uneasy and didn't think either side had a strong case.

 

[Happygolucky]

With the timing of the screams, voices and car noises all not lining up, it makes this evidence look not so credible to me.
Individually you would give credit to the witnesses but collectively it sort of doesn't match up. That worries me.
I cant imagine OW screaming at what she saw, or GBC screaming to NBC about the body or anything like that. Just doesn't sit well with me.


I do believe the best evidence the prosecution have is the flora, the scratches, the blood in the car, and the unlikelihood of her commiting suicide in that place and in that way, but it would be nice if everything they had stated was lining up beautifully and soundly.

MOO

I agree I left the court today with a feeling of unease and spoke for several minutes to a fellow Websleuther. Evidence did not line up, times and descriptions varied. I agree collectively the evidence did not match up.

 

[Jo04]

Well to continue with my definitions, a cardigan is like a mixture of a jacket and a jumper.

Edit- my point- I don't know, just on a roll!

My definition is a cardigan is something that buttons up, a jacket is something that zips up. And a jumper is what you pull over your head.

 

[LadyBird1]

Please forgive the absurdity of his post: The thought has occurred to me that GBC (for reasons unknown) wanted to be locked up. In jail. In a nice safe place. For a while.
To hell with any inconveniences, wife included, along the way. (Out of this world at any rate.)
Because he sure as hell appears to have bungled this entire chapter up good and proper.
A Court Case that looks like totally foolish, excepting the massive costs.
The outrageous "evidences" upon which the case is built.
"Shaving cuts" that only a fool would buy.
Caterpillar scratches; as above.
Suicide by Zoloft. A drug practically incapable of causing death. Empty Zoloft packets lying around as if planted.
A wife's suicide with no vehicle to transport her to her destination 14 km from home. When she was in a positive frame of mind.
A "lover" with whom he has within very few hours have had a tiff regarding his marriage (yeah tiff not over his adulterous relationship, but about a deadline for ending his lawful marriage); tiff also about the conference tomorrow, and does the wife know about the lover being there too?
His urgent need to enquire about his wife's insurance, before she died, and then before a body was formally identified as being said wife.
His need to ask a politician about a camera at the roundabout, the one the QPS were checking on.
I wont go on about his failure to participate in the search, or thank the searchers, or appear bereaved at the funeral.
I won't go on about his apparent lack of remorse, or even sorrow over beloved wife being murdered. Or his apparent jovial demeanour in Court 11 March 2013.
What I am wondering is this: Does he WANT to found guilty?
Does he enjoy this day of notoriety for himself more than he wants to see any manner of justice for his murdered wife?
All IMO. But I for one, am reeling in disbelief at his, .... words fail me. Something between stupidity, gall, and complete lack of human emotion, of feeling, of sympathy, or indeed apparent lack of any senses whatsoever.

 

[alioop]

I say the main difference between a jacket and a cardigan because they both do up the front, is more what it is made of and either could have zips or buttons.

And that is my last post on my definitions of jackets, jumpers and cardigans. I promise!

 

[BJsleuth]

Timeline from witness statements.

Day One of Committal Hearing in the case of Gerard Baden-Clay - 11 March 2013.​

Thursday 19 April 2013.

8:00pm - 9:00pm: Julie Tzvetkoff, lives across from the Baden-Clay home heard yelling coming from that direction. It was a sharp loud yell but she couldn't tell if it was male of female. Her dog also barked that night. The dog usually only barks at the sound of car doors.
Kim Tzvetkoff also heard a shout from across the road. "It was a startled or shocked yell out." He said. Possibly no more than a couple of words which I couldn't discern what they even where. Something startling had happened. I wouldn't describe it as a scream. I feel is was a startled, shocked reaction." He said he was convinced it was a woman's voice. "I did say 'what was that? And I stood there for a moment and it wasn't repeated."

10:00pm: Susan Braun, a neighbour of the Baden-Clays heard her neighbours' dogs barking.

10:30pm: David Jenkinson, who lives in the Kholo Creek area, heard two heavy thuds, a car door closing and dogs barking in the direction of the bridge. The barking of the neighbourhood dogs had alerted Jenkinson to something unusual. Mr. Jenkinson said that he heard two thuds, followed by a car door closing. "The sound you would hear if you had thrown a bag of concrete onto grass." he said. "A heavy thud."

11:30PM: Susan Braun woke to loud noises. Woken by a very loud human noise, out the front, in the area of the Baden-Clay's residence. It sounded like yelling. She heard it twice.

12:30am: Brian Mason, a resident of Anstead near Kholo Creek. His dog started barking at around 12:30pm. He quietened his dog and he could then hear howling. According to new information given eight months later, Brian Mason stated he heard voices ... someone talking.

4:00am: Anne Whittle woke twice to the sound of her neighbour's dog barking. She only recalls the second time she awoke and that was at 4:00am.

4:00am: Brian Mason's wife, a resident of Anstead near Kholo Creek spotted two cars on the side of Mt Crosby Rd. (Although the court was not told which day).

Source: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...594302360?sv=4ac863cbd3ace59e365dac5d72df8356

The noise heard at 11.30pm could have been when GBC has called in the help, ie: not Allison, Gerard being yelled at by/arguing with someone else! There may have been other trips out to Kholo to take the "Personal Items" of Allison's which were found there/ to change her clothes perhaps. From memory, a water bottle was found at the creek, not sure what else? This to fit the "She went walking" theory, a bit of an afterthought on the night. Did the police subpoena Allison's phone records when she was missing? He may have used it rather than his own phone to call for help that night! MOO

 

[alioop]

Ladybird, I don't agree that GBC may want to be found guilty but perhaps being in remand has eased some pressures for him. He can't do anything about his business, its gone, he doesn't have to be a sole parent to his girls and face their grief every day, he doesn't have to live up to his parents high expectations, he doesn't have Toni giving him ultimatums, he doesn't have to juggle his other girlfriends, he doesn't have to worry about the bills he can't pay or the debts that are due, he doesn't have to worry about his maxed out credit card. His life may just be simpler for him where he is. He apparently looks well so maybe he is a little bit ok for now.

 

[LadyBird1]

Ladybird, I don't agree that GBC may want to be found guilty but perhaps being in remand has eased some pressures for him. He can't do anything about his business, its gone, he doesn't have to be a sole parent to his girls and face their grief every day, he doesn't have to live up to his parents high expectations, he doesn't have Toni giving him ultimatums, he doesn't have to juggle his other girlfriends, he doesn't have to worry about the bills he can't pay or the debts that are due, he doesn't have to worry about his maxed out credit card. His life may just be simpler for him where he is. He apparently looks well so maybe he is a little bit ok for now.

Yes Thanks Alioop. That might have been a better way to word those thoughts.
Not guilty; well not guilty of murder at any rate.
Guilty of having women, yes. And now the whole world knows. Status symbol or something for some "men."
Away from the general mainstream life's pressures. And all that have put so eloquently, I agree with.
Wonder if anything else...?

 

[BJsleuth]

I'm curious if the fingertip of the glove was tested for fingerprints. It can be done, whether it would give any clues or not is another story. Strange for it to be in the cardigan. Surely if one of the police lost a finger from their glove at that time they would know it and would say something about it?

Did GBC have a cut to his finger? I can't remember but I recall something about that.