Miz Adventure
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The room JB was found in was dubbed the wine cellar but wine was not kept in there. JR was intending to make the room into a wine cellar.
Day 5 The John, Patsy and Burke's behavior/ The 12 days of JonBenet
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Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3- Latest: Incoherent
The room JB was found in was dubbed the wine cellar but wine was not kept in there. JR was intending to make the room into a wine cellar.
Tortoise
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No, Fleet went there during the party to get more wine out, because Patsy asked him to.
Userid,
BBM: I'm only going on what you posted not what was posted elsewhere.
From your quoted account, JR switched the light on, how delightfully simple, why was there any need for questioning whether JR or FW switched the light on?
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Tortoise,
This is my understanding too, and that he had undertaken this before, not regularly.
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Buddy, I'm going to tell you one more time: you misinterpreted my posts and didn't understand the question I posed. I never said or inferred that the light was already on.
Lastly, and again, because there were two of them there when JBR was found; and also, because JR "conveniently" forgets whether he turned it on or not.
Miz Adventure
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In Steve Thomas's book it simply says "They moved out of the train room, turned into the other hallway and JR headed toward the white door at the far end. Fleet White was several steps behind. Ramsey turned the wooden latch, opened the door and screamed "Oh my God, oh my God!"
No mention of switching on the light.
And....
"Downstairs I checked the little room where the body was found, again a difficult journey just to get there. They had to know where they were going. Police had started calling it the "wine Cellar" to differentiate it from the overall basement area, although no wine was stored in it."
No mention of switching on the light.
And....
"Downstairs I checked the little room where the body was found, again a difficult journey just to get there. They had to know where they were going. Police had started calling it the "wine Cellar" to differentiate it from the overall basement area, although no wine was stored in it."
DrollForeignFaction
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Where does the information about Fleet fetching wine for a dinner party come from?
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DrollForeignFaction
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From Kolar's book:
"Preparing to leave the room, they moved a fireplace grate to check another closet, and Ramsey then moved out of the room and down the hallway toward the Wine Cellar. White was replacing the grate when he heard John Ramsey cry out Oh my God!
White stated that he rushed down the short hallway and joined Ramsey just as the latter flipped on the lights in the Wine Cellar."
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Tortoise
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If I get time to check I think it's in John's 1998 interview with Smit.
It's not a dinner party, it was their party on 23rd I believe.
Tortoise
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[FONT="]12 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. You know, it wasn't[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 like a full-blown wine cellar, but we kept a couple[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 boxes of wine in there. And I want to say that -- I[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 don't remember whether it was the night of the 23rd,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 that party or some party we had, I remember somebody[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 saying we are out of red wine. And I said please[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 (inaudible) to or something. But at some time, please[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 go to the basement to get some more red wine, but he[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 would know where that was.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 TOM HANEY: Okay.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 PATSY RAMSEY: This guy named Bob Ballis[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 (phonetic) who did some Christmas decorations, he made[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 these things, you know, a year or more before when we[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 had the Christmas open house. He would know about[/FONT]
[FONT="]0352[/FONT]
[FONT="] 1 that.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 2 TRIP DEMUTH: My question is: Who had been[/FONT]
[FONT="] 3 in that room prior to Christmas of '96, Bob Ballis, was[/FONT]
[FONT="] 4 he the Christmas of '95?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Right.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 6 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. In the months prior to[/FONT]
[FONT="] 7 Christmas of 1996 Fleet would have gone in there?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would say Fleet, the[/FONT]
[FONT="] 9 cleaning lady and --[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 TRIP DEMUTH: Maybe the husband?[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the husband and maybe[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 the daughter.
http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm
[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 like a full-blown wine cellar, but we kept a couple[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 boxes of wine in there. And I want to say that -- I[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 don't remember whether it was the night of the 23rd,[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 that party or some party we had, I remember somebody[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 saying we are out of red wine. And I said please[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 (inaudible) to or something. But at some time, please[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 go to the basement to get some more red wine, but he[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 would know where that was.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 TOM HANEY: Okay.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 PATSY RAMSEY: This guy named Bob Ballis[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 (phonetic) who did some Christmas decorations, he made[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 these things, you know, a year or more before when we[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 had the Christmas open house. He would know about[/FONT]
[FONT="]0352[/FONT]
[FONT="] 1 that.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 2 TRIP DEMUTH: My question is: Who had been[/FONT]
[FONT="] 3 in that room prior to Christmas of '96, Bob Ballis, was[/FONT]
[FONT="] 4 he the Christmas of '95?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Right.[/FONT]
[FONT="] 6 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. In the months prior to[/FONT]
[FONT="] 7 Christmas of 1996 Fleet would have gone in there?[/FONT]
[FONT="] 8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would say Fleet, the[/FONT]
[FONT="] 9 cleaning lady and --[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 TRIP DEMUTH: Maybe the husband?[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the husband and maybe[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 the daughter.
http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm
[/FONT]
I can't recall seeing boxes of wine in the cellar photos. Was it all drunk on the 23rd? Wouidn't they have bought more for Christmas and taken some to FW's? Can't imagine Lady Boulder arriving empty handed.
I've read that PR regularly had a bottle of white "on the go" chilling in the fridge (was that LPH?). So where was PR's wine stored?
Tortoise,
LOL, I know, I've posted it before ...
I remember thinking long time ago when I thought it was a big conspiracy, that Patsy might be making that stuff about the wine up, just to frame Fleet White?
I reckoned I was over thinking it, so forgot about it.
.
Tortoise
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I had exactly the same thought about her making that up.
Tortoise,
Interesting, maybe that theory has some legs, plus Fleet White has never said he went down for wine, has he?
Without confirmation I wouldn't rate it that much.
.
Yes, let's talk about their behavior. Tricia, as always, makes a valid point regarding peoples actions after being involved with a crime, whether as perpetrator or victim.
Perhaps too much emphasis is placed on how people behave during a crime. Imagine if this case was a segment on American Idol and people had to phone in and vote guilty or not based on the Ramsey's behavior. I think we all know what the outcome would have been, John and Patsy would have been sent to prison, along with Taylor Hicks as a bonus.
Lets look at both Patsy's and John's method of behavior on the 26th and see if we can learn anything.
Patsy's Method: Shakespeare in the park. Overacting, overdramatics, and a soliloquy that would have made Sir Laurence Olivier proud. Ramlet. Problem with this type of behavior is that you run the risk of being detected. This was Patsy's undoing. The wailing, the reaching out to God, the head in the hands with splayed fingers, playing Amazing Grace on air guitar, all theatrics to garner sympathy and deflect guilt. It was Patsy performing for patsies. The problem with this method is that it tends to veer into hyperbole and, ultimately, an Oscar nomination. Think Sally Field in Norma Rae.
John's Method: Cool Hand Luke. Calm, collected, devoid of anything other then a pulse. If John had stuck his arm in one of those drug store machines that measures your blood pressure it would have detected nothing and continually flashed "not in use". If it had of been 2 degrees cooler in that house this guy would have been hibernating in his den. He was robotic. He was like the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz who needed his mouth WD-40ed just to say "Listen Carefully." Talk about ambling through the motions. Opening his mail, emptying the dishwasher, going out to his Mercedes for a smoke, checking to confirm the date of the next Denver Broncos home game. I guess it was all designed to put himself at ease, while making Linda Arndt reach for her gun. Creepy.
Here's the part I don't understand. If I was in the midst of something like this I would, upon waking, just throw on that old bathrobe I stole from the Comfort Inn Las Vegas and leave it on all day, regardless of who was around. Not John. He carefully selected a season themed Neiman Marcus cardigan with matching slacks and belt. Dressed to kill. Patsy? Either just threw on what she had dumped on the floor the night before or kept on what she wore the night before, depending on which website you go to. Regardless, it was not a Comfort Inn bathrobe, it was expensive designer stuff because, you know, the devil wears Prada.
Finally, lets look at their behavior during that 10 am deadline. The only one who seemed genuinely concerned by 10 O'Clock approaching then passing was Priscilla White, who was annoyed because she was missing The Price Is Right. John? I think all he did was notice that he needed a manicure while flipping thru his Amex statement. Patsy? Well, since it was her self-imposed deadline she didn't acknowledge it, maybe because she had already set her watch to Atlanta time, 12 PM. Fatal mistake. This is what the Sherlock Holmes types here on Websleuths jump all over and hold on to like pitbulls. And I thank them for that.
Perhaps too much emphasis is placed on how people behave during a crime. Imagine if this case was a segment on American Idol and people had to phone in and vote guilty or not based on the Ramsey's behavior. I think we all know what the outcome would have been, John and Patsy would have been sent to prison, along with Taylor Hicks as a bonus.
Lets look at both Patsy's and John's method of behavior on the 26th and see if we can learn anything.
Patsy's Method: Shakespeare in the park. Overacting, overdramatics, and a soliloquy that would have made Sir Laurence Olivier proud. Ramlet. Problem with this type of behavior is that you run the risk of being detected. This was Patsy's undoing. The wailing, the reaching out to God, the head in the hands with splayed fingers, playing Amazing Grace on air guitar, all theatrics to garner sympathy and deflect guilt. It was Patsy performing for patsies. The problem with this method is that it tends to veer into hyperbole and, ultimately, an Oscar nomination. Think Sally Field in Norma Rae.
John's Method: Cool Hand Luke. Calm, collected, devoid of anything other then a pulse. If John had stuck his arm in one of those drug store machines that measures your blood pressure it would have detected nothing and continually flashed "not in use". If it had of been 2 degrees cooler in that house this guy would have been hibernating in his den. He was robotic. He was like the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz who needed his mouth WD-40ed just to say "Listen Carefully." Talk about ambling through the motions. Opening his mail, emptying the dishwasher, going out to his Mercedes for a smoke, checking to confirm the date of the next Denver Broncos home game. I guess it was all designed to put himself at ease, while making Linda Arndt reach for her gun. Creepy.
Here's the part I don't understand. If I was in the midst of something like this I would, upon waking, just throw on that old bathrobe I stole from the Comfort Inn Las Vegas and leave it on all day, regardless of who was around. Not John. He carefully selected a season themed Neiman Marcus cardigan with matching slacks and belt. Dressed to kill. Patsy? Either just threw on what she had dumped on the floor the night before or kept on what she wore the night before, depending on which website you go to. Regardless, it was not a Comfort Inn bathrobe, it was expensive designer stuff because, you know, the devil wears Prada.
Finally, lets look at their behavior during that 10 am deadline. The only one who seemed genuinely concerned by 10 O'Clock approaching then passing was Priscilla White, who was annoyed because she was missing The Price Is Right. John? I think all he did was notice that he needed a manicure while flipping thru his Amex statement. Patsy? Well, since it was her self-imposed deadline she didn't acknowledge it, maybe because she had already set her watch to Atlanta time, 12 PM. Fatal mistake. This is what the Sherlock Holmes types here on Websleuths jump all over and hold on to like pitbulls. And I thank them for that.
No it's not
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Their behavior.
They didn't communicate with each other, they didn't comfort each other, they didn't sit by each other as the house filled with buffers and LE.
They left the house in separate vehicles.
PR asked the officer at the front door to please remove his gun.
JR tried to fly out of town within 1/2 hour of finding his child's body.
They had lawyers and investigators within hours of finding the body.
They didn't agree to be interviewed by LE until 4 months after the murder.
They threw everyone under the bus, including their 'best friends', Santa and their housekeeper.
They claimed to have never read any of the police reports that their lawyer obtained on their behalf or even the RN.
They went on TV, they wrote a book.
They can not remember whatever is asked of them to the point that they will not even ID their own bowls, spoons and flashlight in photos.
They weren't angry with, and forgave, the murderer within a week of finding their dead child's body but made the police department the target of their anger and considered them enemies.
They stopped speaking to the Whites because the Whites wanted them to return to Boulder to help with the investigation and talk to police. JR said they would do just that but instead went on national television 3 hours later.
They stopped looking for the murderer.
They didn't communicate with each other, they didn't comfort each other, they didn't sit by each other as the house filled with buffers and LE.
They left the house in separate vehicles.
PR asked the officer at the front door to please remove his gun.
JR tried to fly out of town within 1/2 hour of finding his child's body.
They had lawyers and investigators within hours of finding the body.
They didn't agree to be interviewed by LE until 4 months after the murder.
They threw everyone under the bus, including their 'best friends', Santa and their housekeeper.
They claimed to have never read any of the police reports that their lawyer obtained on their behalf or even the RN.
They went on TV, they wrote a book.
They can not remember whatever is asked of them to the point that they will not even ID their own bowls, spoons and flashlight in photos.
They weren't angry with, and forgave, the murderer within a week of finding their dead child's body but made the police department the target of their anger and considered them enemies.
They stopped speaking to the Whites because the Whites wanted them to return to Boulder to help with the investigation and talk to police. JR said they would do just that but instead went on national television 3 hours later.
They stopped looking for the murderer.