DC - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 4 federal counts in 2020 election interference, 1 Aug 2023, Trial 4 Mar 2024

[Fairy1]

So it's possible that Trump was given advice from his lawyers and he didn't know that he was doing anything illegal. So no intent. JMO.

Actually, no. The indictment indicates that even DJT initially believed what they were proposing was "crazy."

 

[IzzyBlanche]

BBM. Trump has no real defense to the charges. Claiming the 1st Amendment "protects" him is the lamest excuse I've seen.

JMO

It protects him from incurring consequences because of what he said.

It does not protect him from incurring consequences of what he actually did.

ETA:

If I sit around listening to people saying I should put out a contract on my husband whom I believe cheated on me, and even agree, that's protected free speech.

If I actually hire the the hitman, that's not.

Edited to add again: Just for clarification, I DO NOT have a husband whom I believe cheated on me. LOL

 

[PommyMommy]

AUG 2, 2023

Trump Prepares to Make Familiar Trip to Courthouse, This Time in Washington

The former president’s appearance before Magistrate Judge Moxila A. Upadhyaya, a Biden appointee, on election subversion charges comes about six weeks after his arraignment over sensitive documents.

www.nytimes.com

[...]

Mr. Trump’s appearance before Moxila A. Upadhyaya, a federal magistrate judge appointed by President Biden, comes about six weeks after his arraignment in Miami on charges of mishandling government documents after he left the White House and seeking to block investigators.

His second federal indictment is likely to follow a cadence similar to his first.

The former president will fly down on his private jet from his golf club in Bedminster, N.J. He is expected to arrive around 3 p.m., at the E. Barrett Prettyman courthouse, the venue for dozens of trials stemming from the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

The U.S. Marshals Service, which is responsible for security inside federal courthouses, will escort him to an area where he will be booked for a third time this year. (He was arraigned in New York in the spring in connection with a hush-money payment to a pornographic actress before the 2016 election.)

... The marshals did not photograph Mr. Trump in Miami, and they will not take his picture in Washington, according to a law enforcement official involved in the planning.

[...]

 

[RANCH]

Trump privately admitted he lost 2020 election, top aides testify

‘He knows he lost’: Cassidy Hutchinson testified that Trump acknowledged he lost 2020 election

Trump Knew He Lost the Election, Aides Testify

Fox News' Sean Hannity says he knew all along Trump lost the election (example of a close friend who knew)

Jarring new video, evidence Trump knew he lost: Key takeaways from the latest Jan. 6 hearing

The Jan. 6 case against Trump: He knew he was lying

Jan. 6 panel presents proof: Despite the lies, Trump knew he lost

Unfortunately, we live in a political and social climate where people have been led to believe that certain news is "fake" if it's not reported by certain sources. So, if those certain news sources aren't reporting on the hearings where people testified and provided evidence that Trump knew, then they just wont consider it fact at all. It just... never happened.

Plausible deniability is a hot commodity these days. If 99 people tell you something you don't want to hear but you finally find that one person that tells you otherwise... well, I guess you're all set!

I'm not so sure I believe those accounts. A member of The View and second hand information from an aide.

They can tesify at trial and let the jury decide. JMO.

 

[RANCH]

Actually, no. The indictment indicates that even DJT initially believed what they were proposing was "crazy."

Crazy or illegal?

 

[PommyMommy]

AUG 2, 2023

Bill Barr says Donald Trump 'knew well he lost the election'

The former attorney general undermined Mr Trump's case ahead of his court appearance.

www.bbc.com

Ex-US President Donald Trump has lashed out at prosecutors on the eve of his court appearance on charges of plotting to overturn his 2020 election defeat.

The "unprecedented indictment" shows the "corruption, scandal, & failure" of the US under Joe Biden's presidency, he wrote on social media.

Security is being ramped up in Washington DC for Thursday's hearing.

[...]

Mr Trump's lawyers have hinted at their defence strategy.

Attorney John Lauro appeared on NBC's Today show on Wednesday and said he planned to argue that Mr Trump was protected by the right to free speech enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution.

[...]

On Wednesday, an apparent hoax 911 call about an active shooting at the Capitol triggered a lockdown in three Senate office buildings and a major police emergency response.

Speaking to reporters during the alert, US Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger said the police force that battled rioters two-and-a-half years ago was well-trained and prepared for active-shooter drills.

"We're prepared for anything that may happen tomorrow," he said, referring to Mr Trump's court appearance.

[...]

IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES Image caption, While his would-be challenger is beset with legal woes, President Biden (centre) is on holiday in Delaware

 

[branmuffin]

I will say this about all of these indictments. I feel they are meant to prevent Donald Trump from being elected President in 2024.

The only problem is they are having the opposite affect. He is doing great in the polls. So far anyway. JMO.

Why Trump's poll lead went up after criminal indictments

Facing criminal charges has only strengthened the former president's lead in the Republican race.

www.bbc.com

I agree with you that as soon as these indictments were released, Trump's approval rate surged among Republicans. However, the same thing happened during his first indictment then his numbers dwindled again.

Watching CNN tonight there was a discussion regarding the chance that not only Trump does become the nominee, he actually wins the election in 2024.

Amongst the talking heads were theories regarding how this would play out if by the time of the election Trump could be in a jail cell. Almost all the panel felt that any of the other candidates that ran would probably be required to issue a blood oath of support and someone would meet with Trump in prison and hear his formal pardon of himself.

So the way I look at it, as a concerned outsider, I wonder just how badly the following situations would play out and create a civil war in the country. Sounds excessive but I can feel the seismic rumblings already.

Situation one: Donald Trump is the Republican nominee. He loses the election to the Democratic nominee. If he has been found guilty and resides somewhere in prison, he stays in prison until he either finishes his sentence or is paroled, reflecting the 11th commandment that no one is above the law.

Situation two: Donald Trump becomes the Republican nominee and also wins the general election. Meanwhile, he's been languishing in jail. He pardons himself and regains the presidency.

Out of those two scenarios which one do you think will benefit the US?

Civil war can only happen when both sides decide to fight over existential threats to 'their' democracy.

 

[Fairy1]

Crazy or illegal?

Please read the indictment and decide for yourself what he knew and when he knew it. It's pretty clear, IMO, and I imagine many more details, provided by those present and involved, will be made public should this go to trial. I would also point out that DJT opted to proclaim his candidacy long before his advisors (again) advised against it. That's very telling to me. It gave him the excuse to cry "election interference" when he had to have known he would be charged at some point. If we're being honest, he really wasn't that interested in being POTUS the first time around and even complained about how hard it was. Why would he do it again when he could just fade out and golf? MHO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I'm not so sure I believe those accounts. A member of The View and second hand information from an aide.

They can tesify at trial and let the jury decide. JMO.

Just to be clear: are you saying you think it's possible that all of those aides, including his own attorney general, whom he himself appointed--are lying, misremembering, or ... what exactly?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Actually, no. The indictment indicates that even DJT initially believed what they were proposing was "crazy."

Exactly. And that fact that his lawyers are co-conspirators pretty much throws that defense ("but mah counsel!") right out the window.

BTW, ignorance of the law is no defense.

 

[RANCH]

I agree with you that as soon as these indictments were released, Trump's approval rate surged among Republicans. However, the same thing happened during his first indictment then his numbers dwindled again.

Watching CNN tonight there was a discussion regarding the chance that not only Trump does become the nominee, he actually wins the election in 2024.

Amongst the talking heads were theories regarding how this would play out if by the time of the election Trump could be in a jail cell. Almost all the panel felt that any of the other candidates that ran would probably be required to issue a blood oath of support and someone would meet with Trump in prison and hear his formal pardon of himself.

So the way I look at it, as a concerned outsider, I wonder just how badly the following situations would play out and create a civil war in the country. Sounds excessive but I can feel the seismic rumblings already.

Situation one: Donald Trump is the Republican nominee. He loses the election to the Democratic nominee. If he has been found guilty and resides somewhere in prison, he stays in prison until he either finishes his sentence or is paroled, reflecting the 11th commandment that no one is above the law.

Situation two: Donald Trump becomes the Republican nominee and also wins the general election. Meanwhile, he's been languishing in jail. He pardons himself and regains the presidency.

Out of those two scenarios which one do you think will benefit the US?

Civil war can only happen when both sides decide to fight over existential threats to 'their' democracy.

A more likely scenario if Trump is convicted is a lengthy appeals process and the conviction is overturned. JMO.

 

[branmuffin]

AUG 2, 2023

Bill Barr says Donald Trump 'knew well he lost the election'

The former attorney general undermined Mr Trump's case ahead of his court appearance.

www.bbc.com

Ex-US President Donald Trump has lashed out at prosecutors on the eve of his court appearance on charges of plotting to overturn his 2020 election defeat.

The "unprecedented indictment" shows the "corruption, scandal, & failure" of the US under Joe Biden's presidency, he wrote on social media.

Security is being ramped up in Washington DC for Thursday's hearing.

[...]

Mr Trump's lawyers have hinted at their defence strategy.

Attorney John Lauro appeared on NBC's Today show on Wednesday and said he planned to argue that Mr Trump was protected by the right to free speech enshrined in the First Amendment of the Constitution.

[...]

On Wednesday, an apparent hoax 911 call about an active shooting at the Capitol triggered a lockdown in three Senate office buildings and a major police emergency response.

Speaking to reporters during the alert, US Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger said the police force that battled rioters two-and-a-half years ago was well-trained and prepared for active-shooter drills.

"We're prepared for anything that may happen tomorrow," he said, referring to Mr Trump's court appearance.

[...]

IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES Image caption, While his would-be challenger is beset with legal woes, President Biden (centre) is on holiday in Delaware

Trump knows why the indictments are 'unprecedented', right?

 

[RANCH]

Just to be clear: are you saying you think it's possible that all of those aides, including his own attorney general, whom he himself appointed--are lying, misremembering, or ... what exactly?

All what aides? I didn't see the attorney general in any of those links. WSJ is behind a paywall so I can't read those links. Is it in there?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

All what aides? I didn't see the attorney general in any of those links. WSJ is behind a paywall so I can't read those links. Is it in there?

Not all of those links are from WSJ.

 

[RANCH]

Please read the indictment and decide for yourself what he knew and when he knew it. It's pretty clear, IMO, and I imagine many more details, provided by those present and involved, will be made public should this go to trial. I would also point out that DJT opted to proclaim his candidacy long before his advisors (again) advised against it. That's very telling to me. It gave him the excuse to cry "election interference" when he had to have known he would be charged at some point. If we're being honest, he really wasn't that interested in being POTUS the first time around and even complained about how hard it was. Why would he do it again when he could just fade out and golf? MHO

Of course the indictment will say that Trump is guilty. That's what it's for.

I feel that there are weakness in it that the defense will use to defend Trump at trial. JMO.

 

[sds71]

@mkraju

Former AG Bill Barr on new Trump charges. “I don't see a problem … I think that it's not an abuse. The Department of Justice is not acting to weaponize the department by proceeding against the president for a conspiracy to subvert the electoral process,”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1686926373841969152

 

[MyBelle]

It protects him from incurring consequences because of what he said.

It does not protect him from incurring consequences of what he actually did.

ETA:

If I sit around listening to people saying I should put out a contract on my husband whom I believe cheated on me, and even agree, that's protected free speech.

If I actually hire the the hitman, that's not.

Edited to add again: Just for clarification, I DO NOT have a husband whom I believe cheated on me. LOL

BBM. Bingo! I wonder how many in the "co-conspirator" category were in on the "planning meetings" held at the Willard Hotel.
P.S. There's a young mother sitting in a Bahama jail cell right now who actually hired the hitman. I know it's not you because I doubt she has access to the Internet! jk

JMO

The January 6 House committee poised to subpoena Trump team who met at a DC hotel 'war room' in the days before the Capitol attack, say reports

The January 6 House committee plans to issue subpoenas to 20 top Trump lieutenants about the Willard hotel meetings, a source told The Guardian.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This is from today, and it's not behind a paywall.

'"Former Attorney General Bill Barr said Wednesday he does not believe the defense that former President Donald Trump was following the advice of counsel in his Jan. 6 decision-making would hold up if the former president took the stand in court.
...
Barr also cast doubt on whether Trump’s aides had, in fact, told Trump he had lost the 2020 election unjustly.

All of the advisers who surrounded Trump, Barr claimed, had told him that the 2020 election “was not stolen by fraud.” Even conservative attorney John Eastman — who Trump’s legal team said pushed him to declare the election a fraud — gave such vague counsel to Trump that Barr said he was not sure he would characterize it as “advice.”'

Bill Barr: 'Would not come out very well' for Trump on the stand

"I doubt he remembers all the different versions of events he has given over the last few years," the former attorney general said.

www.politico.com

 

[Arkay]

IMO—-
Donald J. Trump is caught between appearing to be the two things he most abhors—-
1-looking like a loser
2-looking like an idiot

He’s a President who doesn’t know the first thing about the Constitution, which he swore to protect, defend and uphold when he took the Oath of Office, or else a lifelong businessman who can’t do arithmetic.


If he knew anything about the Constitution, or cared about it at least, he would know that Pence only ceremonially presided over the vote count on January 6th. A VP does not have the ability to unilaterally swap out the votes of the population of the United States.

Suppose it’s your wedding day, and your cute little ceremonial flower girl decides that after throwing petals, she will now pronounce you husband and wife. That does not make you married, because she does not have the power and authority to do so.

Same for Mike Pence; he knew that, and he abided by that. Even though it would have personally been to his benefit, as he was on that ticket, of course.

Or else, the head of the entire Trump Organization, with vast real estate holdings, does not know that more votes are greater than fewer votes.

I don’t like Biden and I wrote in a candidate in 2020 for the first time in my life. But more votes were cast for Biden than for any other candidate, so Biden is the president.

This is the cornerstone of our nation. Of the people, by the people, for the people. We decide. No heir to the throne.

IMO it is a certainty that the people in Trump’s orbit, who all were appointed by Trump and who wanted him to win, told him frankly that he had not succeeded. Many of them had been in his Cabinet, they were all Republicans, they had voted for Trump themselves, but he lost. The jig was up.

Evidence from the indictment and the January 6th Committee has proven all this. Rusty Bowers, Brad Raffensberger and a host of others told this to Trump, even though they were conservative Republicans who had voted for him.

Trump closed his eyes, stuck his fingers in his ears, said “l can’t hear you” (metaphorically), and went to find new friends in the playground who would say what he wanted.

This one man could crater our entire democratic republic.

Remember that when Ben Franklin emerged from the Constitutional Convention, he was asked if America would be a monarchy or a republic, and he replied “ A republic, if you can keep it.”




JMO but based on evidence which has been made public.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

What a shameful American. That's all. Goodnight.