DC - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 4 federal counts in 2020 election interference, 1 Aug 2023, Trial 4 Mar 2024

[MyBelle]

Donald Trump snaps back at Nancy Pelosi over "mean" comments

Former House Speaker Pelosi said that Trump resembled "a scared puppy" during his Thursday arraignment hearing.

www.newsweek.com

On Sunday, Trump took to Truth Social to hit back against Pelosi's MSNBC comments.

"I purposely didn't comment on Nancy Pelosi's very weird story concerning her husband, but now I can because she said something about me, with glee, that was really quite vicious," the former president's post read. "'I saw a scared puppy,' she said, as she watched me on television, like millions of others, that didn't see that. I wasn't 'scared.' Nevertheless, how mean a thing to say! She is a Wicked Witch whose husbands journey from hell starts and finishes with her. She is a sick & demented psycho who will someday live in HELL!"

Yet another example of Trump's pathological lies. He DID comment on the vicious attack on Paul Pelosi and called Nancy "an animal." His pal, Elon Musk followed up by linking some ridiculous story that said Paul Pelosi was attacked by a gay lover rather than a violent supporter of Trump. I think it is a big reason Trump LOST in 2020 and why he will lose at trial.
JMO

Trump calls Pelosi 'an animal'

The former president, speaking at an election eve rally, used the word days after the House speaker's husband was attacked with a hammer.

www.politico.com

Former President Donald Trump on Monday called House Speaker Nancy Pelosi “an animal,” days after her husband was attacked with a hammer by a man charged with seeking to kidnap the speaker.

“I think she’s an animal, too, to tell you the truth,” Trump said at a rally near Dayton, Ohio, on behalf of Republican candidates on the eve of the midterm elections, before referring to Pelosi and the House impeaching him twice...

...Trump seemed to refer to potential backlash he would get from his comment: “They’ll say, ‘What a horrible thing. He called Nancy Pelosi an animal,’” the former president said.

“I will never use the word again. But what she did to us in this country … ” Trump said at the rally, trailing off.

 

[Lilibet]

To be fair I do wish the trial were moved to a court that is not in DC. Reading those stats just assures more claims of unfairness with the results. If the goal is to get Trump it needs to be by a court that is unbiased and a jury of his peers - these are not his peers if there's only 5.40% that voted for him in DC. I am not saying move it to WV, is there a state that doesn't lean one way or the other? I want this to be a fair trial and the truth to come out and no political agenda. We all should want that.

So, with all due respect @bestill, basically you’re saying that jurors in D.C. are incapable of upholding their oath and just looking at the law and the evidence without filtering it through the lens of their party affiliation. Perhaps you don’t realize how insulting that is to all jurors and how it undermines faith in the justice system.

Every person who has gone to trial for their January 6 assault on the Capitol has been tried where their alleged crime occurred...in D.C. Their requests for a change of venue have been denied. Trump is being tried in the same location he is accused of committing the crimes. In this case, D.C. and in the Mar a Lago documents case in Florida. That’s how it works. I don’t hear any of Trump’s lawyers saying the Mar a Lago documents case should be moved out of Florida because the state leans Trump’s way and the jury will be biased in his favor. ;-)

This article makes clear why he can have a fair trial in D.C.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/06/politics/trump-fair-trial-court-case-dc-venue-change/index.html

JMO

 

[Niner]

Docket update:


Doc # Date Filed Description
10 Aug 5, 2023 Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply AND Order on Motion for Hearing

Aug 5, 2023 MINUTE ORDER as to DONALD J. TRUMP: It is hereby ORDERED that by 5:00 PM on August 7, 2023, Defendant shall file a response to the government's 10 Motion for Protective Order, stating Defendant's position on the Motion. If Defendant disagrees with any portion of the government's proposed Protective Order, ECF No. 10-1, his response shall include a revised version of that Protective Order with any modifications in redline. Signed by Judge Tanya S. Chutkan on 08/05/2023. (lcss)

Aug 5, 2023 .Order

Aug 5, 2023 Order

Aug 5, 2023 Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply AND Order on Motion for Hearing

Aug 5, 2023 MINUTE ORDER as to DONALD J. TRUMP: Granting 9 Motion for Leave to Appear Pro Hac Vice. Filzah I. Pavalon is hereby admitted pro hac vice to appear in this matter on behalf of Defendant. Counsel should register for e-filing via PACER and file a notice of appearance pursuant to LCrR 44.5(a). Click for instructions. Signed by Judge Tanya S. Chutkan on 08/05/2023. (lcss)

Aug 5, 2023 Order on Motion for Leave to Appear Pro Hac Vice

Aug 5, 2023 Order on Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply

11 Aug 5, 2023 MOTION for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply as to 10 MOTION for Protective Order, MOTION for Hearing by DONALD J. TRUMP. (Attachments: # 1 Text of Proposed Order)(Lauro, John) (Entered: 08/05/2023) Motion for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply
Text of Proposed Order

12 Aug 5, 2023 RESPONSE by USA as to DONALD J. TRUMP re 11 MOTION for Extension of Time to File Response/Reply as to 10 MOTION for Protective Order MOTION for Hearing (Gaston, Molly) (Entered: 08/05/2023)
Response to motion

Aug 5, 2023 MINUTE ORDER as to DONALD J. TRUMP: Defendant's 11 Motion for Extension of Time is hereby DENIED. Defendant may continue to confer with the government regarding its proposed protective order before or after the August 7, 2023 5:00 PM deadline for his response. The court will determine whether to schedule a hearing to discuss the proposed protective order after reviewing Defendant's response and, if included, his revised proposed protective order with modifications in redline. Signed by Judge Tanya S. Chutkan on 08/05/2023. (lcss)

Aug 6, 2023 Set/Reset Deadlines

Aug 6, 2023 Set/Reset Deadline as to DONALD J. TRUMP: Defendant shall file a response to the government's 10 Motion for Protective Order, stating Defendant's position on the Motion by 5:00 PM on August 7, 2023. If Defendant disagrees with any portion of the government's proposed Protective Order, (Dkt. #10-1), his response shall include a revised version of that Protective Order with any modifications in redline. (jth)

link: United States v. TRUMP, 1:23-cr-00257 - CourtListener.com

 

[Inthedetails]

So, with all due respect @bestill, basically you’re saying that jurors in D.C. are incapable of upholding their oath and just looking at the law and the evidence without filtering it through the lens of their party affiliation. Perhaps you don’t realize how insulting that is to all jurors and how it undermines faith in the justice system.

Every person who has gone to trial for their January 6 assault on the Capitol has been tried where their alleged crime occurred...in D.C. Their requests for a change of venue have been denied. Trump is being tried in the same location he is accused of committing the crimes. In this case, D.C. and in the Mar a Lago documents case in Florida. That’s how it works. I don’t hear any of Trump’s lawyers saying the Mar a Lago documents case should be moved out of Florida because the state leans Trump’s way and the jury will be biased in his favor. ;-)

This article makes clear why he can have a fair trial in D.C.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/06/politics/trump-fair-trial-court-case-dc-venue-change/index.html

JMO

Yes! This ^^

Not only do we have to resist undermining confidence in our established systems, but also resist undermining confidence in each other!

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

Apparently the defendant posted on social media this weekend about the U.S. women's soccer team. That, along with his lawyer hitting the Sunday morning tv shows, shows he and his legal team are not too busy to attend to his court deadlines for this case, and he undermines his own motions for delay, imo.

The first deadline for this case is today, Monday, 5pm.

jmo

p.s. At the farmers' market this weekend I bought a bunch of peaches. My eyes are on Georgia, and we might as well eat well while we watch.

 

[Betty P]

Yet another example of Trump's pathological lies. He DID comment on the vicious attack on Paul Pelosi and called Nancy "an animal." His pal, Elon Musk followed up by linking some ridiculous story that said Paul Pelosi was attacked by a gay lover rather than a violent supporter of Trump. I think it is a big reason Trump LOST in 2020 and why he will lose at trial.
JMO

Trump calls Pelosi 'an animal'

The former president, speaking at an election eve rally, used the word days after the House speaker's husband was attacked with a hammer.

www.politico.com

Former President Donald Trump on Monday called House Speaker Nancy Pelosi “an animal,” days after her husband was attacked with a hammer by a man charged with seeking to kidnap the speaker.

“I think she’s an animal, too, to tell you the truth,” Trump said at a rally near Dayton, Ohio, on behalf of Republican candidates on the eve of the midterm elections, before referring to Pelosi and the House impeaching him twice...

...Trump seemed to refer to potential backlash he would get from his comment: “They’ll say, ‘What a horrible thing. He called Nancy Pelosi an animal,’” the former president said.

“I will never use the word again. But what she did to us in this country … ” Trump said at the rally, trailing off.

RBBM

I WISH voters would reject candidates who engaged in this kind of attack, but its unlikely.

 

[crussell821]

Yes! This ^^

Not only do we have to resist undermining confidence in our established systems, but also resist undermining confidence in each other!

jmo

And honestly, it’s what they want people to think. That everyone is so crazed in this white-hot political environment that democrats would convict someone simply on their political leanings and not on the evidence (and vice versa). I know for me personally that is very much not true.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

And honestly, it’s what they want people to think. That everyone is so crazed in this white-hot political environment that democrats would convict someone simply on their political leanings and not on the evidence (and vice versa). I know for me personally that is very much not true.

Same here.

 

[sds71]

Here is Donald Trump's signature on the conditions of his release, including a pledge not to tamper with or retaliate against witnesses/victims/informants or officers of the court (lawyers/judges).

https://documentcloud.org/documents/23901070-conditions

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rSVbCaDoA46o/v0

 

[Inthedetails]

Interesting low-down regarding how multiple cases can impact each other.

For example, when Trump's deposition in the Carrol case was entered into evidence and became known, it was then made subject of subpoena in another case.

"When a client is facing multiple legal challenges, 'you have to be conscious of what the client might say that could rebound to the client’s detriment down the road,' said Jonathan Entin, a law professor at Case Western Reserve University."

How Donald Trump’s many legal troubles are all starting to intersect

As the former president faces at least five trial dates over the next year, his actions in some cases are being used against him in others.

www.politico.com

 

[Inthedetails]

Here is Donald Trump's signature on the conditions of his release, including a pledge not to tamper with or retaliate against witnesses/victims/informants or officers of the court (lawyers/judges).

https://documentcloud.org/documents/23901070-conditions

In my experience dealing with a narcissist, I've learned they thrive creating chaos and will keep escalating the chaos until they get a response that they can then blame the responder for. imo This behavior by the defendant looks like that. imo

The best way to deal with this provoking behavior is to disengage. Obviously that can't be done here. imo

The next best approach is to respond only in a minimal, unemotional, factual way, focused with pinpoint precision on the actual matter, not anything extraneous (because the narcissist then shifts attention to the extraneous matter and creates chaos about that to avoid the actual issue). imo

I think Jack and the Judge got this. imo

jmo

 

[scapa]

Apologies if already posted -- useful legal analysis from The Guardian:

Included in the indictment last week against Donald Trump for his efforts to subvert the 2020 presidential election was a count of obstructing an official proceeding – the attempt to stop the vote certification in Congress on the day his supporters mounted the January 6 Capitol attack.

The count is notable, because – based on a review of previous judicial rulings in other cases where the charge has been brought – it may be one where prosecutors will not need to prove Trump knew he lost the election, as the former president’s legal team has repeatedly claimed.

Prosecutors may not need to show that Trump knew he had lost the election

 

[Vern]

In my experience dealing with a narcissist, I've learned they thrive creating chaos and will keep escalating the chaos until they get a response that they can then blame the responder for. imo This behavior by the defendant looks like that. imo

The best way to deal with this provoking behavior is to disengage. Obviously that can't be done here. imo

The next best approach is to respond only in a minimal, unemotional, factual way, focused with pinpoint precision on the actual matter, not anything extraneous (because the narcissist then shifts attention to the extraneous matter and creates chaos about that to avoid the actual issue). imo

I think Jack and the Judge got this. imo

jmo

I doubt even that "minimal, unemotional, factual" method of operation would work with this particular Defendant.

1) He ignores minimal as he thinks maximally (ie: he is the only person who can "save America";
2) He's proven to be very thin-skinned and engages in perpetual emotional personal attacks against anyone including Judges etc who do remain factual; and
3) Factual means nothing to this particular purveyor of fake news, big lies and, as admitted by KAC and Trump and his Team believing in "Alternative Facts" (Alternative Facts are actually LIES).

When one views themselves as a Saviour being persecuted "for all of us", rational outcomes, actions and words simply won't follow. He'll create an ever bigger stinkshow to keep the attention on his non-existant "persecution". He needs and wants to be the centre of attention --- until Republicans start calling him out en masse, they continue to enable his tantrums and enhance his actions and words.

 

[Inthedetails]

I doubt even that "minimal, unemotional, factual" method of operation would work with this particular Defendant.

1) He ignores minimal as he thinks maximally (ie: he is the only person who can "save America";
2) He's proven to be very thin-skinned and engages in perpetual emotional personal attacks against anyone including Judges etc who do remain factual; and
3) Factual means nothing to this particular purveyor of fake news, big lies and, as admitted by KAC and Trump and his Team believing in "Alternative Facts" (Alternative Facts are actually LIES).

When one views themselves as a Saviour being persecuted "for all of us", rational outcomes, actions and words simply won't follow. He'll create an ever bigger stinkshow to keep the attention on his non-existant "persecution". He needs and wants to be the centre of attention --- until Republicans start calling him out en masse, they continue to enable his tantrums and enhance his actions and words.

Oh, I don't for one minute think the defendant will stop his antics.

I should have mentioned the goal when dealing with a narcissist is, realistically, to keep your own self sane and safe. Nothing stops the narcissist's chaotic behavior and that should not be the goal since it won't likely be achieved. Instead, you want to, with hope, minimize damage and refrain from getting tangled in the chaos (and certainly to reject violence).

IMO, the goal in this case is calm, legal, prosecution of crimes in a timely manner without further destruction to the country. The ultimate goal is for all of us to move on without him, imo.

jmo

 

[JerseyGirl]

Trump and his new lawyer are not on the same page about judge’s recusal

The former president's public statements are already diverging from the advice of his newest lawyer, John Lauro.

www.politico.com

Donald Trump blared Sunday morning that his legal team would be “immediately asking for recusal” of U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan from his latest criminal case, proclaiming (but not revealing) “very powerful grounds” for the demand.

Hours later, his attorney John Lauro would publicly walk back that plan, saying Trump was speaking with a “layman’s political sense” and reacting primarily because Chutkan was nominated to the bench by a Democrat. (She was confirmed 95-0 by the Senate in 2014 after Barack Obama nominated her).

“We haven’t made a final decision on that issue at all,” Lauro said on a podcast hosted by Florida defense attorney David Markus. “I think as lawyers we have to be very careful of those issues and handle them with the utmost delicacy.”

On Monday morning, Trump was again hammering on the recusal issue, calling Chutkan “the Judge of [special counsel Jack Smith’s] ‘dreams’ (WHO MUST BE RECUSED!).”

The back-and-forth on public airwaves and social media underscores the familiar tension between Trump and his legal team, which has been rocked by infighting, departures and conflicting advice in recent months.

 

[Lilibet]

You probably know that you are describing the “gray rock” approach to dealing with narcissists/abusers. While gray-rocking on the part of Jack Smith, other prosecutors and the judges may cause Trump to escalate, it moves the prosecution forward with minimal delays and distractions.

Can the Grey Rock Method Protect You From Toxic Behavior?

The grey rock method is a way to deal with a toxic individual. The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain boring and neutral.

www.verywellmind.com

In my experience dealing with a narcissist, I've learned they thrive creating chaos and will keep escalating the chaos until they get a response that they can then blame the responder for. imo This behavior by the defendant looks like that. imo


The best way to deal with this provoking behavior is to disengage. Obviously that can't be done here. imo

The next best approach is to respond only in a minimal, unemotional, factual way, focused with pinpoint precision on the actual matter, not anything extraneous (because the narcissist then shifts attention to the extraneous matter and creates chaos about that to avoid the actual issue). imo

I think Jack and the Judge got this. imo

jmo

Oh, I don't for one minute think the defendant will stop his antics.

I should have mentioned the goal when dealing with a narcissist is, realistically, to keep your own self sane and safe. Nothing stops the narcissist's chaotic behavior and that should not be the goal since it won't likely be achieved. Instead, you want to, with hope, minimize damage and refrain from getting tangled in the chaos (and certainly to reject violence).

IMO, the goal in this case is calm, legal, prosecution of crimes in a timely manner without further destruction to the country. The ultimate goal is for all of us to move on without him, imo.

jmo

 

[Betty P]

So, with all due respect @bestill, basically you’re saying that jurors in D.C. are incapable of upholding their oath and just looking at the law and the evidence without filtering it through the lens of their party affiliation. Perhaps you don’t realize how insulting that is to all jurors and how it undermines faith in the justice system.

Every person who has gone to trial for their January 6 assault on the Capitol has been tried where their alleged crime occurred...in D.C. Their requests for a change of venue have been denied. Trump is being tried in the same location he is accused of committing the crimes. In this case, D.C. and in the Mar a Lago documents case in Florida. That’s how it works. I don’t hear any of Trump’s lawyers saying the Mar a Lago documents case should be moved out of Florida because the state leans Trump’s way and the jury will be biased in his favor. ;-)

This article makes clear why he can have a fair trial in D.C.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/06/politics/trump-fair-trial-court-case-dc-venue-change/index.html

JMO

I've spent a lot of time in DC over the years and there are a lot of misconceptions about the city. It's a "company town" to be sure, but it's also full of a lot of regular, middle class working people. The people in elected office or who work for them only live there part time. On weekends and during breaks, they're gone, back in their districts. OTOH, there are also a lot of people in the military and who work for defense contractors who live there.

One of the more disappointing parts of US politics in recent years has been the trend of tricking conservative voters into thinking Washington DC is a hostile environment, full of dangerous people, enemies, criminals, etc. I've seen this crazy attitude persist even when Trump was POTUS. The goading and brainwashing of conservative voters is what led to Jan 6 and it needs to stop. The only time I felt any fear going to Washington DC was after 9-11. Americans should enjoy visiting our nation's capitol. It's ours, we should be proud of it. It's a beautiful place, full of so much history and culture.

 

[Inthedetails]

You probably know that you are describing the “gray rock” approach to dealing with narcissists/abusers. While gray-rocking on the part of Jack Smith, other prosecutors and the judges may cause Trump to escalate, it moves the prosecution forward with minimal delays and distractions.

Can the Grey Rock Method Protect You From Toxic Behavior?

The grey rock method is a way to deal with a toxic individual. The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain boring and neutral.

www.verywellmind.com

I didn't know about "gray rock!" But that does seem to be what I'm suggesting. I just have a lot of personal (not professional) experience with a narcissist, and I over the years, I figured out what can be effective. jmo

I don't expect everyone to agree with these observations. People who haven't dealt with a narcissist, or don't recognize narcissists they might happen to know, usually don't see what's happening. Understandable that we all have our own perceptions. imo

My hunch is Trump might turn on his legal teams. Not a prediction, not a certainty, not a desire, but a hunch. imo

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

I didn't know about "gray rock!" But that does seem to be what I'm suggesting. I just have a lot of personal (not professional) experience with a narcissist, and I over the years, I figured out what can be effective. jmo

I don't expect everyone to agree with these observations. People who haven't dealt with a narcissist, or don't recognize narcissists they might happen to know, usually don't see what's happening. Understandable that we all have our own perceptions. imo

My hunch is Trump might turn on his legal teams. Not a prediction, not a certainty, not a desire, but a hunch. imo

jmo

Your personal experience is certainly valuable. From what I understand, gray-rocking hasn’t been formally studied, but it has been anecdotally shown to be valuable...and exhausting for the one practicing it!

 

[Cubby]

Here is Donald Trump's signature on the conditions of his release, including a pledge not to tamper with or retaliate against witnesses/victims/informants or officers of the court (lawyers/judges).

https://documentcloud.org/documents/23901070-conditions

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rSVbCaDoA46o/v0

Why then, has he not been held in contempt of court?
Anyone else would be, why not him?