DC - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 4 federal counts in 2020 election interference, 1 Aug 2023, Trial 4 Mar 2024

[musicaljoke]

You probably know that you are describing the “gray rock” approach to dealing with narcissists/abusers. While gray-rocking on the part of Jack Smith, other prosecutors and the judges may cause Trump to escalate, it moves the prosecution forward with minimal delays and distractions.

Can the Grey Rock Method Protect You From Toxic Behavior?

The grey rock method is a way to deal with a toxic individual. The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain boring and neutral.

www.verywellmind.com

An effective reply to a narcissistic tirade is , "Yeah, whatever."

 

[arielilane]

In my experience dealing with a narcissist, I've learned they thrive creating chaos and will keep escalating the chaos until they get a response that they can then blame the responder for. imo This behavior by the defendant looks like that. imo

The best way to deal with this provoking behavior is to disengage. Obviously that can't be done here. imo

The next best approach is to respond only in a minimal, unemotional, factual way, focused with pinpoint precision on the actual matter, not anything extraneous (because the narcissist then shifts attention to the extraneous matter and creates chaos about that to avoid the actual issue). imo

I think Jack and the Judge got this. imo

jmo

I absolutely love your post! Thank you.

 

[x_files]

An effective reply to a narcissistic tirade is , "Yeah, whatever."

It's effective.

 

[sds71]

The interview largely focused on what Trump's former attorney Rudy Giuliani did to prove that really won the election, Kerik's attorney told CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/07/politics/bernie-kerik-trump-grand-jury/index.html

 

[MyBelle]

Oh, I don't for one minute think the defendant will stop his antics.

I should have mentioned the goal when dealing with a narcissist is, realistically, to keep your own self sane and safe. Nothing stops the narcissist's chaotic behavior and that should not be the goal since it won't likely be achieved. Instead, you want to, with hope, minimize damage and refrain from getting tangled in the chaos (and certainly to reject violence).

IMO, the goal in this case is calm, legal, prosecution of crimes in a timely manner without further destruction to the country. The ultimate goal is for all of us to move on without him, imo.

jmo

I think Trump's pathological lies have moved him into the category of toxic narcissist. The violence and lies of Jan 6th are being addressed by our Justice system and that shows our democracy is working. The Trumpists have failed in their quest to overthrow it.

I hope Trump will continue his antics because they help him dig a bigger hole for himself and his supporters. I doubt very many of those convicted for their riot at the Capitol would be willing to do it again.

JMO

 

[anneg]

You probably know that you are describing the “gray rock” approach to dealing with narcissists/abusers. While gray-rocking on the part of Jack Smith, other prosecutors and the judges may cause Trump to escalate, it moves the prosecution forward with minimal delays and distractions.

Can the Grey Rock Method Protect You From Toxic Behavior?

The grey rock method is a way to deal with a toxic individual. The idea is that when a narcissist tries to provoke you, you disengage and remain boring and neutral.

www.verywellmind.com

Interesting about the "gray rock" method--I hadn't heard about that, but it seems like it would be worth trying.

 

[Ursamajr]

RBBM

I WISH voters would reject candidates who engaged in this kind of attack, but its unlikely.

Lets be honest... certain voters will but it depends if the candidate has a (D) or an (R) next to their name.

 

[anneg]

Why then, has he not been held in contempt of court?
Anyone else would be, why not him?

I was wondering about this too. Maybe what Trump's done so far doesn't qualify as contempt of court, or the DOJ is giving T the gray rock treatment...?

Here is part of an article on NPR.org about why protective orders are used (bold red font by me):

What is a protective order?​

Long before a criminal case goes to trial, prosecutors have to share what's called "discovery" with the defense.

That could include potential evidence, such as grand jury documents and witness statements, and it may contain personal identifying details and other confidential information.

Stanford Law School professor David Sklansky said protective orders are commonly used in criminal cases to shield sensitive information about investigative tactics, cooperating witnesses or national security.

"It's a case-by-case decision by the judge about whether there's reason to fear that disseminating information could be harmful to the public, to national security, to potential witnesses," he said.

Sklansky added that a protective order in this case would not be intended to "silence Trump" or prevent him from talking about the case, but rather an effort to "protect the use of information that's provided in discovery."

Legal experts say a person could receive a warning or be held in contempt of court for violating a judge's protective order.

 

[sds71]

Trump has filed his response…

"In a trial about First Amendment rights, the government seeks to restrict First Amendment rights."

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Lauro claims that this Biden tweet was a reference to Trump's indictment:

 

[Inthedetails]

Trump has filed his response…

"In a trial about First Amendment rights, the government seeks to restrict First Amendment rights."

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Lauro claims that this Biden tweet was a reference to Trump's indictment:

Reading the response right now and two words come to mind first:
Vindictive hypocrite

jmo

 

[anneg]

Trump has filed his response…

"In a trial about First Amendment rights, the government seeks to restrict First Amendment rights."

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Lauro claims that this Biden tweet was a reference to Trump's indictment:

The trial is NOT ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS!! (sorry, got carried away there)

 

[MyBelle]

Trump has filed his response…

"In a trial about First Amendment rights, the government seeks to restrict First Amendment rights."

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Lauro claims that this Biden tweet was a reference to Trump's indictment:

I wonder how many of those "volunteer attorneys" are also believed to be his "co-conspirators."

JMO

 

[vls12345]

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

Kind of like how he wanted (and got) volunteer criminals on Jan. 6....

 

[ilovewings]

I wonder how many of those "volunteer attorneys" are also believed to be his "co-conspirators."

JMO

I think the judge will give him another chance (mistake)-- if she does that he will use his platform to continue threats-- eventually she is going to have to bring the hammer down on him-- so far Trump has gotten away with actions no other person on this planet would have gotten away with.

 

[Inthedetails]

Trump has filed his response…

"In a trial about First Amendment rights, the government seeks to restrict First Amendment rights."

Trump wants to be able to show discovery to “volunteer attorneys” who want to assist in his defense.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Lauro claims that this Biden tweet was a reference to Trump's indictment:

Defense requests that sensitive material be conspicuously marked as such....as if the defendant is trustworthy handling marked sensitive documents (see Mar-a-Lago bathroom). jmo

Same link as in quoted post.

 

[sds71]

DOJ has filed a response:

Trump’s legal team wants to “try his case in the media rather than the courtroom.”

Mentions Trump’s post about Pence.

The defendant proposes including “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” Without a clearly defined relationship of employment or privilege, this
language is boundless.

For example, several co-conspirators are identified as
attorneys, whom the defense might interpret as “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” The Court should not accept the edit.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.15.0_2.pdf

 

[Arkay]

so far Trump has gotten away with actions no other person on this planet would have gotten away with.

I would amend that to “no other person in the United States.”

Clearly Trump has gotten away with so much, yes, but he’s advancing toward the degree of dictatorship that a Putin or Kim Jong-Un or Khamenei (Iran) already have within their countries.

These dictators are responsible for all kinds of atrocities and they ALWAYS punish/jail/assassinate those countrymen who criticize them.

Remember what Trump said about them? How he and Kim Jong-Un ”fell in love,” and how Putin was “very savvy” and a “genius“? This last in reference to the invasion of Ukraine.

So, this IMO is the company that Trump likes to keep, the men he admires because no can can freely disagree with them, not if they value their freedom and their lives.

I know Trump hasn’t ordered anyone to be put to death, but IMO the deaths on January 6th are on his hands, and the threats he keeps issuing are going to get someone else killed if he doesn’t shut up.


JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

DOJ has filed a response:

Trump’s legal team wants to “try his case in the media rather than the courtroom.”

Mentions Trump’s post about Pence.

The defendant proposes including “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” Without a clearly defined relationship of employment or privilege, this
language is boundless.

For example, several co-conspirators are identified as
attorneys, whom the defense might interpret as “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” The Court should not accept the edit.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.15.0_2.pdf

Took hours to respond. Just noting.

(Defense complained about Government not being responsive.)

jmo

DOJ has filed a response:

Trump’s legal team wants to “try his case in the media rather than the courtroom.”

Mentions Trump’s post about Pence.

The defendant proposes including “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” Without a clearly defined relationship of employment or privilege, this
language is boundless.

For example, several co-conspirators are identified as
attorneys, whom the defense might interpret as “other attorneys assisting counsel
of record.” The Court should not accept the edit.
"

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.15.0_2.pdf

From Jack Smith's response, same link as quoted post:

"This District’s rules prohibit defense counsel from doing precisely what he has stated he intends to do with discovery if permitted: publicize, outside of court, details of this case, including the testimony of anticipated witnesses. Local Criminal Rule 57.7(b) provides that it is the duty of attorneys in criminal cases not to publicly disseminate 'information or opinion; regarding, among other things, ;[t]he existence or contents of any . . . statement given by the accused' or '[t]he identity, testimony, or credibility of prospective witnesses.' This is because such statements risk tainting the jury pool with inadmissible evidence or otherwise harming the integrity of these proceedings." (page 5)

Anyone know when the judge is expected to rule on this issue?

jmo

 

[LaborDayRN]

I would amend that to “no other person in the United States.”

Clearly Trump has gotten away with so much, yes, but he’s advancing toward the degree of dictatorship that a Putin or Kim Jong-Un or Khamenei (Iran) already have within their countries.

These dictators are responsible for all kinds of atrocities and they ALWAYS punish/jail/assassinate those countrymen who criticize them.

Remember what Trump said about them? How he and Kim Jong-Un ”fell in love,” and how Putin was “very savvy” and a “genius“? This last in reference to the invasion of Ukraine.

So, this IMO is the company that Trump likes to keep, the men he admires because no can can freely disagree with them, not if they value their freedom and their lives.

I know Trump hasn’t ordered anyone to be put to death, but IMO the deaths on January 6th are on his hands, and the threats he keeps issuing are going to get someone else killed if he doesn’t shut up.


JMO

Yes, yes 100% YES!

 

[LaborDayRN]

Took hours to respond. Just noting.

(Defense complained about Government not being responsive.)

jmo

From Jack Smith's response, same link as quoted post:

"This District’s rules prohibit defense counsel from doing precisely what he has stated he intends to do with discovery if permitted: publicize, outside of court, details of this case, including the testimony of anticipated witnesses. Local Criminal Rule 57.7(b) provides that it is the duty of attorneys in criminal cases not to publicly disseminate 'information or opinion; regarding, among other things, ;[t]he existence or contents of any . . . statement given by the accused' or '[t]he identity, testimony, or credibility of prospective witnesses.' This is because such statements risk tainting the jury pool with inadmissible evidence or otherwise harming the integrity of these proceedings." (page 5)

Anyone know when the judge is expected to rule on this issue?

jmo

I hope she rules soon! In the mean time it's going to be yap, yap, yap from Trump and his cronies.