DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #11

[dlc]

Respectfully, most ten year olds have cell phones. Especially if they have older siblings and are of a well to do family. My youngest, who is PS's age, has a cell phone that he does not take to school. But he has one.

Respectfully, this was the post I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Momoffourboys View Post

Yep. Agreed.
Most 10 year olds have cell phones. How else would they snapchat and post on instagram?

This was my response:

Originally Posted by dlc View Post
When they're busy with school work, which Philip likely was given the quality of his school, they have less time. Also, many private schools do NOT allow students to have their cell phones on in class, so having one to bring to school is not as much of an issue.


I was simply making an observation based on my own son's experience in a school very similar to St. Aubin, which PS attended. The homework at these schools tends to be heavy, even in 4th grade, so less time for some of the online social media activities that people seem to assume that all 10-year-olds are doing. PS may have had a phone, or he may not have. I don't think we can assume that all children of this age do, regardless of family socioeconomic status. My son, and many of his peers, most definitely did not.

 

[MyBelle]

He's got to deliver it to sell it and I don't believe the title would be valid once fraud is shown. MOO

I think he believed if noone was left alive, the fraud would be undetected. A lot of delusional behavior attached to these crimes.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, this was the post I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Momoffourboys View Post

Yep. Agreed.
Most 10 year olds have cell phones. How else would they snapchat and post on instagram?

This was my response:

Originally Posted by dlc View Post
When they're busy with school work, which Philip likely was given the quality of his school, they have less time. Also, many private schools do NOT allow students to have their cell phones on in class, so having one to bring to school is not as much of an issue.


I was simply making an observation based on my own son's experience in a school very similar to St. Aubin, which PS attended. The homework at these schools tends to be heavy, even in 4th grade, so less time for some of the online social media activities that people seem to assume that all 10-year-olds are doing. PS may have had a phone, or he may not have. I don't think we can assume that all children of this age do, regardless of family socioeconomic status. My son, and many of his peers, most definitely did not.

I agree with you. Our kids had cell phones for safety purposes. If we called, they had better answer but never did we allow social media activities on cell phones. I think if PS had fb, it was done on a home computer and Mom & Dad were watching.

JMO

 

[Skigirl]

I'm confused. Do we know there was not a current registration in the Mosler?
:gaah:

Two of us looked up the registration using two different databases (last thread) and both of us found that the last time it had been registered was in 2011 (we both found the same date). The other poster had access to more information and said that the registration expired two years later on that day (I believe it was November 8, 2013). Both of us looked it up by VIN. Both of us found it was registered in Hyattsville, MD. I'm not sure what happened in the meantime to make anyone think that it was more recently registered in Florida or that a current registration was in the glove compartment.

As far as I know, it had an expired registration matching the one that was found on JW.

ITA that it's surprising that SS let JW take it for a spin without it being registered since it would be hugely risky from an insurance point of view. I have a feeling that it had some sort of special insurance because I am pretty sure that if I called up State FArm and told them I wanted to insure a $700K car my agent would laugh. Maybe this special insurance didn't require a current registration?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it's the best I've got.

 

[Skigirl]

I agree, if it was in there. But what if he kept it at the AIW office, in a safe deposit box or at his dad's house? Any number of places he could have kept the key other than the house since it seems like it was only driven rarely/occasionally. Not exactly the car I'd take to the grocery store, and it was blocked in by another car in the driveway, which leads me to believe it didn't get a lot of use. Last time the mileage was registered, it had 6,222 miles - on a 2004.

I stand corrected. Someone must have found a more recent registration than I did, since what I found was 5400 miles. I'm horribly behind. Does someone know around what time the information about the newer registration was posted?

 

[Hatfield]

Brilliant! I know, why the blunt "delivered the package..."? He had just delivered $20-$40k cash to an unlocked car. If he was as happy about his job as it came across on FB and respectful of SS as you would expect, he sure didn't come across with any kind of caring attitude when he thought no one was looking.

Yeah, I tend to agree it is bothersome.

And like was mentioned already. Even before the delivery of the $$$.

Like what is he on call 24X7 just waiting for an unexpected phone call to go pick up 40K?

How come he just happened to be available ?

And then when he gets his orders, its all business with no questions asked of SS as to what is going on? Are you OK?
And if he did get concerned, he sure didnt tell anyone like authorities or relatives. But what does he do but text his friend and starts bragging about 40K.

I dont buy it. Its all too fishy combined with the known inconsistencies that LE has talked about.

 

[MsFacetious]

So last night we watched an episode of FBI Files.
It was on the kidnapping of Amy McNiel for $100k ransom in 1985.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...30501_1_kidnapers-texas-rangers-rescue-effort

I still have never figured out why they didn't just abduct Phillip and ask for ransom.
It seems like that is generally how it is done... but maybe they thought this way they'd be more likely to escape?

 

[kammiemc]

Respectfully, this was the post I was responding to:

Originally Posted by Momoffourboys View Post

Yep. Agreed.
Most 10 year olds have cell phones. How else would they snapchat and post on instagram?

This was my response:

Originally Posted by dlc View Post
When they're busy with school work, which Philip likely was given the quality of his school, they have less time. Also, many private schools do NOT allow students to have their cell phones on in class, so having one to bring to school is not as much of an issue.


I was simply making an observation based on my own son's experience in a school very similar to St. Aubin, which PS attended. The homework at these schools tends to be heavy, even in 4th grade, so less time for some of the online social media activities that people seem to assume that all 10-year-olds are doing. PS may have had a phone, or he may not have. I don't think we can assume that all children of this age do, regardless of family socioeconomic status. My son, and many of his peers, most definitely did not.

I totally agree. My 10-year-old son happens to have a phone for emergencies. But in our neighborhood--and it's nice, though I can't recall seeing a Bentley or Mosler (but a Tesla--we're green here!)--a lot of moms still feel strongly that 10 is too young for a phone. So I don't broadcast that he has a phone to my mom friends for fear of judgment!

And, despite that PS had a FB profile and he was so young, I am sure that his parents monitored it and just wanted for him to have a place to follow his favorite drivers. Yet I can imagine his mom didn't necessarily want to broadcast that he was on FB to her mom friends.

 

[Skigirl]

OK, here's where all the discussion of registrations was yesterday morning -- on and around this page 31 of thread 10 -- three of us found the same registration information by running the VIN; each of us had access to a little bit more or less information. I'll paste the information I found below, and note that another poster found that the car was registered to Sigma Investments.

Yesterday, 11:05 AM #772 Skigirl

Ok, this was a total ripoff, but I paid to run the VIN on Experian. It left out a LOT of information, but here's what I got:

* Model year was 2004
* As of 2011 it had 5400 miles. That's the last recorded odometer reading.
* Title number is 42698136
* Registration was renewed on 11/08/2011 in Hyattsville, MD.
* No accidents or anything unusual in the car's history


I should correct my above post because I was assuming that the car registration expired on the same day as the previous registration, but I actually think it expired at the end of the month in 2013. I am super interested in whatever this newer registration was because I would have thought running the VIN would turn up any registration the car had.

 

[rkf]

Absolutely.

Years ago I took a 67 Delta 88 convertible out of storage for a ride not realizing that I hadn't renewed the plates.

Cop pulled me over and said he would have the car towed and we could walk if not for the fact that we had a baby granddaughter in a car seat in the back.

They are serious about that.

Franker, that was my first car! A beige 1967 Delta 88 Oldsmobile - could seat 12 of your closest friends with no A/C! Only mine wasn't a convertible, It was older than me and it broke down constantly. Great lesson: no matter how low you try to set your expectations when your parents tell you they've bought you a car, it can actually be worse than you ever anticipated... But you should still smile appreciatively and hug everyone so they will feel like their $300 was well-spent.

 

[rkf]

Two of us looked up the registration using two different databases (last thread) and both of us found that the last time it had been registered was in 2011 (we both found the same date). The other poster had access to more information and said that the registration expired two years later on that day (I believe it was November 8, 2013). Both of us looked it up by VIN. Both of us found it was registered in Hyattsville, MD. I'm not sure what happened in the meantime to make anyone think that it was more recently registered in Florida or that a current registration was in the glove compartment.

As far as I know, it had an expired registration matching the one that was found on JW.

ITA that it's surprising that SS let JW take it for a spin without it being registered since it would be hugely risky from an insurance point of view. I have a feeling that it had some sort of special insurance because I am pretty sure that if I called up State FArm and told them I wanted to insure a $700K car my agent would laugh. Maybe this special insurance didn't require a current registration?

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but it's the best I've got.

I'm just assuming they do have current registration, since it can be renewed online and they mail it to you. Until it arrives, you can print out a temporary registration slip to display on your windshield. The fact that the emissions test was passed in January shows me that they needed it to have the registration renewed.There must be someplace we can find the current plates so we can put this to bed. We know SS and/or JW drove it in April. I don't believe SS would risk taking that car out without proper registraiton and insurance.

 

[kammiemc]

Yeah, I tend to agree it is bothersome.

And like was mentioned already. Even before the delivery of the $$$.

Like what is he on call 24X7 just waiting for an unexpected phone call to go pick up 40K?

How come he just happened to be available ?

And then when he gets his orders, its all business with no questions asked of SS as to what is going on? Are you OK?
And if he did get concerned, he sure didnt tell anyone like authorities or relatives. But what does he do but text his friend and starts bragging about 40K.

I dont buy it. Its all too fishy combined with the known inconsistencies that LE has talked about.

Right? I think the fact that JW's most passionate defenders have stopped trying to grasp at excuses to refute the endless onslaught of his lies and unfortunate coincidences that paint him in a bad light tells us that there is something going on with him. Which LE has clearly always believed.

 

[rkf]

I stand corrected. Someone must have found a more recent registration than I did, since what I found was 5400 miles. I'm horribly behind. Does someone know around what time the information about the newer registration was posted?

I think it's okay to post this. Maybe Skigirl will be able to find the current state tags!

 

[emmavoberry]

Wow, I have just spent a good majority of my day catching up on these threads. I don't know how I got so far behind.
There were many times I wanted to reply to a comment, but it would have been so far behind that it would have seemed out of place.
I do feel compelled to make a general statement about something I keep reading. People keep mentioning the last call MADE BY SS, unanswered by JW, shortly before noon. That is not a correct statement. There was a call made from SS's PHONE, we have no way of knowing who was actually making the call...any of the calls or texts for that matter. We have to be careful when stating assumption as fact. Eventually it becomes blurry and everyone accepts it as fact. Like that the $ was placed in the Mosler. Is that actually a fact? Did I miss where that was legitimately stated?

A good advisory. 1) Agreed. Any missed calls, any text, AS or SS attributed could be made from SS cell phone by anyone in possession of it. The content of any message--even if by voice mail or by SS attested to by a credible person who knows his voice should be assumed to have been dictated by the kidnapper/s. Best to keep in mind that any text on record from JW phone doesn't mean JW meant it to be seen by SS--or AS in that case.
If we have independent verification that PS was home recovering from a concussion or that AS had asked VF to stay, fine. Otherwise we can not confirm the content as true. 2) We have only JW's claim that he placed $ in Mosler. I'm not sure that LE has verified that a text msg. instructed him to do so, and if it had, we would not know if SS had sent the instruction; if he had, we can not say that instruction was his and not a perpetrator's or that it was not to mislead authorities.

Thus far, we don't know many verified facts in this case and when we do since so much information is missing, probably deliberately with held or not yet finished being processed with other bits of evidence, statements to police, video, we can't know what those facts mean in isolation from others. We can speculate, but we are not playing with the full deck. Ha ha ha.

Some have decided if it's not in the SW or the CD, futile exercise to try to make inferences about it and premature.

I think other than media interpretation, and whatever LE shares in press conference, we will not know the majority of the case facts until trial. If no trial, we might still wait quite a while for the plots and sub-plots to be revealed.

Even then, we will debate and re-evaluate "the facts" and individual cases constructed on them.

What do others think we might learn in coming weeks. How much of what happened, who did what, and why might we discover in the next few months?

 

[Skigirl]

I'm just assuming they do have current registration, since it can be renewed online and they mail it to you. Until it arrives, you can print out a temporary registration slip to display on your windshield. The fact that the emissions test was passed in January shows me that they needed it to have the registration renewed.There must be someplace we can find the current plates so we can put this to bed. We know SS and/or JW drove it in April. I don't believe SS would risk taking that car out without proper registraiton and insurance.

I would love to put this issue to bed. I'm totally baffled by the fact that running a VIN number (and one poster had access to a LE database, I believe) does not turn up the current registration information. Isn't all of this information in a central database, so why would it be so out of date? It's not like 2013 was last month. Even if it was registered in a new state, the VIN is what matters.

 

[rkf]

So sell me on this theory

Let's say W-1 succeeds filing for a duplicate title, lets forget he has to check the mail for the dupe title. Expertly fills out the dupe title in his name and gets back a nice clean title in his name.

Does he then go knocking on the front door and saying pardon me, I own that Mosler.

If the Mosler was the object or motive then why not steal it outright without entering the house?

Maybe he had to enter the house/garage to get the registration out of the Mosler, if he hadn't nicked it earlier. If JW had stolen the registration earlier, I would imagine the replacement title would have arrived around the time of the murders. I think the flaw in the plan is that DW can't drive a manual transmission. For all his hot car photos on his facebook page, he can't drive a stick. So the automatic Porsche was the hottest car he could drive as a getaway car. He may have planned on selling it, but then it got too hot when police put out an APB on the Porsche.

I think JW wanted the quasi-paperwork because with enough smoke and mirrors, and charm, he'd be able to sell the car to anyone willing to not look to carefully at its accuracy, probably for pennies on the dollar.

But what I really think JW wanted to do, is drive that car on the race circuit. If he had the title, he could make up some tear-jerker story about how his employer saw such promise in him that he wanted him to have the car if anything ever happened to him... And just weeks later, his family died in a horrible fire. I can't bear to write the rest. Maybe Emmavoberry can take over.

 

[rkf]

I would love to put this issue to bed. I'm totally baffled by the fact that running a VIN number (and one poster had access to a LE database, I believe) does not turn up the current registration information. Isn't all of this information in a central database, so why would it be so out of date? It's not like 2013 was last month. Even if it was registered in a new state, the VIN is what matters.

The new registration doesn't say anything different than the old registration, other than the dates. I don't think Carfax notes every time the registration renews, and I don't know if it would note if it lapses.

Just took a sleeping pill so I won't stay up all night obsessing, so my posts are losing some clarity. fftobed:

 

[emmavoberry]

I am not so sure if it was SS's MO to be driven around by his chauffeur in the Mosler. The reason for him to have a driver is so he can work. Not so that he can have an exciting ride. I have no idea for sure, but I am guessing that the beauty of the Mosler is driving it, not being a working passenger. SS might have let JW take it out for wash or short spin, or one or two commutes to work to experience it. But I highly doubt this was so day-to-day that JW would need his own expired reg. I could be wrong.

If he would need an expired reg as better than no reg, why would he keep it in his backpack in his OWN car? If garage is locked, possibly has alarm (surely car does) and he has to take it in for maintenance or to be washed, why wouldn't SS keep the reg. safely in the console or the glove compartment. I'd think the Mosler was kept locked, so another layer of protection. I don't know that JW would be given access to the Mosler, keys to it, code to garage, be put in charge of the fleet. He's a part-time driver, a new employee. AGREED. The Mosler wasn't SS's commute car. These terrifically expensive cars are investments, pride and joys, treated like babies. It would not surprise me if SS had someone other than JW who he called in to take care of the fleet. If not, he sent the cars out to specialists, either driving them in himself or having them picked up.

I think the idea that JW is given the Mosler reg., location of its keys, the house alarm code, hand-picked to deliver 40 thousand dollars in a life or death situation, underestimates SS's experience, acumen, caution, judgement. Sure, he was giving "the personable kid" a chance, sharing a mutual enthusiasm for performance cars, especially a beauty like the Mosler, and kind enough to credit JW's knowledge by asking him how it felt in the test drive.

A few months on the job, JW was in a probationary status. Hence, knowing JW was just a glorified assistant/driver, the accountant did not take bring him in on the bank transaction. He claimed to witness it to demonstrate SS's faith in him so as to explain his being chosen to deliver so much cash.
He lied about the Wednesday text from SS's cell because it was not from SS, but from a kidnapper in the house keeping him posted as to the plan.
I believe JW not only lied about getting a text "from SS" on Wednesday night, but he first claimed SS contacted him in a voice mail. I don't think that is in the CD, but a police source is cited in a news report as relaying that SS, confronted with his own phone, had to admit "SS' (his CELL) left instructions in text. That lie was to cover that he was making plans with one of the kidnappers, not the boss. He pretended he heard the boss's voice. And he was distancing himself at first from what was going on Wed. night in claiming he got pulled in not until the Thursday a.m. "flurry of calls" just like anyone else.

I don't find his lies merely suspicious. The lies he told are explained by his involvement as they were 100percent related to masking it in every case. No alternate explanation makes sense anymore. JMO!

 

[SophieRose]

I think it's okay to post this. Maybe Skigirl will be able to find the current state tags!
View attachment 75905

Here's the car at Euro Motorcars on 6/8/12. Beautiful car.

[video=youtube;yh3HTehoELg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh3HTehoELg[/video]

 

[emmavoberry]

Maybe he had to enter the house/garage to get the registration out of the Mosler, if he hadn't nicked it earlier. If JW had stolen the registration earlier, I would imagine the replacement title would have arrived around the time of the murders. I think the flaw in the plan is that DW can't drive a manual transmission. For all his hot car photos on his facebook page, he can't drive a stick. So the automatic Porsche was the hottest car he could drive as a getaway car. He may have planned on selling it, but then it got too hot when police put out an APB on the Porsche.

I think JW wanted the quasi-paperwork because with enough smoke and mirrors, and charm, he'd be able to sell the car to anyone willing to not look to carefully at its accuracy, probably for pennies on the dollar.

But what I really think JW wanted to do, is drive that car on the race circuit. If he had the title, he could make up some tear-jerker story about how his employer saw such promise in him that he wanted him to have the car if anything ever happened to him... And just weeks later, his family died in a horrible fire. I can't bear to write the rest. Maybe Emmavoberry can take over.

WOW!! This is THE scenario which explains it all. YUP!
Obsession with the car he saw himself racing. And you point out how he could have made that happen. Explains setting up the fiction of how he was trusted, posting pix of Philip, befriending AS and PS on FB, selecting himself to deliver the money and making it look like he'd been SS's choice--all of it.
What is this? The Talented Mr. Ripley?
I think this was the sick goal.
But for the slip-ups....
Chilling.
I see him winning the cup for SS, AS, and PS. Tears as he pops the champagne cork, holds the bottle aloft and says "to one of the greatest guys I've ever met. He believed in me and it's because of him blah blah blah"

JW, founder of the Annual Savopoulos Tribute Race
JW announces the Philip Savopoulos scholarship Go-Kart blah blah


One silver lining. He will never race their Mosler now.

JMO re: your finding the WHY that has so eluded us. You know LE might never ever get any of this out of him or be able to substantiate it, but they will get him.

Just my opining.

PS read today that some owners of super-valuable, desirable cars, you know "the bomb," get the stick because it's an added anti-theft device. A huge percentage of folks, even die-hard car aficionados can't drive stick.