DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #11

[jjenny]

"you need to get home"

If he is innocent, how would he know she was not home??? Am I missing something. How would he know of the explanation SS gave to VF's husband?

He didn't know. Which is why the message started with "if you are ok"

 

[FelicityLemon]

Franker, that was my first car! A beige 1967 Delta 88 Oldsmobile - could seat 12 of your closest friends with no A/C! Only mine wasn't a convertible, It was older than me and it broke down constantly. Great lesson: no matter how low you try to set your expectations when your parents tell you they've bought you a car, it can actually be worse than you ever anticipated... But you should still smile appreciatively and hug everyone so they will feel like their $300 was well-spent.

I love this post :blowkiss:

 

[tambo]

No, I am not even talking about theories. I am talking about excusing away things such as: the fact that he admittedly lied about his involvement; AND refuting facts such as that LE used carefully crafted language to make it clear in the CD that they were relaying JW's statements as HIS statements, not as facts that they believe to be true. You refuted that and said firmly that they believe it to be true or it wouldn't be in the CD. Those are not ridiculous or silly theories. Those are facts. And those facts, ANY facts that might support LE's suspicion of JW, have been consistently balked at by some. It's almost as if some people think they are more experienced, more informed and more intelligent than the LE who are in the details and strategizing. I personally don't understand that. And I don't think that simply believing LE might be on to something based ON reality, ON the facts we know is silly or ridiculous, just open minded. Generally open mindedness is a trait of smart people, so I certainly don't feel silly or ridiculous to be in that group of thinkers. I get paid to think and strategize. I guess it could be a fluke that I have reached my career goals and I am actually a sub-par thinker...

I think they 100% suspected him in the beginning. The SW;s and CD's support that. Those were all written before anyone had any clue about DW. I would have done everything the police did too. But knowing what has transpired since those first 2 days paints a different picture, in my head anyway. I don't think anyone here is silly I think that repeating stuff over and over again that has been shown to not be fact is silly. I just like to stick to fact's and what i saw this morning were not facts they were fiction, (I will say i think there are some awesome story lines written here). except that they are just that, stories so it gets old trying to dispute them when they are just stories. So when the comment was made that anyone who disputes these stories (or as the OP put it JW defenders) has stopped because we all know he did it, well it just kind of mad me laugh.

 

[Solitaryone]

I feel like every time we get more info from the SW's it just makes me question everything all over again and none of it really makes any sense. fwiw

ITA! The way the info is being released is what's causing so much confusion! :crosseyed:

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly..imo it was a text just trying to make him look innocent..jmo

And the irony is that the text makes himself look guilty. I think he is a narcissist who thinks he can talk his way out of anything. It reminds me of the Ryan Poston case featured last night on 20/20 and the perp asked for an attorney and then proceeded to yak her head off to the cops and confessed. They didn't have to ask her a single question!

JMO

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

I think it is a good theory because I noticed in some of those photos is one of those neon little man traffic signs leaning up against the wall along the driveway. The killers may have planned to pull that Amerit truck right up to the driveway and work on the Mosler. I doubt any of the neighbors would give it a second thought. But for whatever reason, they ran out of time to pull all this off.

JMO

The little flag guys are used in the neighborhood around schools at pickup and drop off times. My first thought about the flag was that it was for Philip's safety when playing in the yard or street, but upon examining that thought, it seems off.

 

[Ransom]

He was told to place the package in the red car in the garage. There was only one red car in the garage.

Sorry to butt in, but AT that time (during the kidnapping/murder/fire) how do we know as FACT what was in the garage? TIA.

 

[emmavoberry]

I doubt SS knew his family would be killed until after the money was dropped off. Maybe the car required something he didn't have on hand or maybe at that point, he was already dead.

JMO

He did not know his family would be killed (and VERALICIA) until they were. Well, we hope not, but perhaps a few minutes before if some brute loud-mouth started in with the "Let's kill the sonofaguns..."
What's so crucial to keep in mind from this post is that WE DO NOT KNOW IF SS WAS STILL ALIVE or anyone else at the stage in question.
An ME can not pinpoint exact time of death, the fire can obscure factors needed to determine exact cause as well, and phone calls unless a credible person identifies the voice can not establish when the last time was that SS or AS was alive. That VF must have not shown the sure signs of death (decapitation, rigor, fixed and dilated in combo with other signs etc. ) that mean medics do not attempt to recusitate (sic) does not tell us in which order they were killed either. A window can be established medically and circumstantially. It can be longer than prosecutors or defense wish it were.

Thanks My Belle.

 

[FelicityLemon]

"you need to get home"

If he is innocent, how would he know she was not home??? Am I missing something. How would he know of the explanation SS gave to VF's husband?

I think ff she's not answered the house phone or people's cell phone messages or texts, he could have assumed (as I would) that she would have been out doing what she does or even out walking the dogs among other things. She could have been driving and not answering the phone. If she was walking the dogs, that's an excellent reason to offer her a ride like he did.

 

[kammiemc]

My thoughts exactly.

<modsnip>

LE has said from the git go that they think the alleged perp DW had help. They have left the door open to "further arrests." They have only a day ago finished with the crime scene and all the testing is ongoing. DW's DNA was in the system, he'd been employed and fired from AIW, he'd been arrested brandishing a machete in front of AIW, and main thing, the pizza crust DNA placed him in the house during the kidnapping and torturing and the video placed him at the scene of where the porsche was set afire.
Much more complicated to show a) firm connection between DW and JW b) JW's presence in the house at the time of the kidnap and torture (I mean he's had reason to be in the house before) and he's alibied for time of murders. c) a "planner," one with legitimate reason to have a personal connection to SS, his family, the cars--as opposed to the guy who busts the door down and bludgeons the occupants--is more difficult to build a case against. He wasn't in the system. He wasn't caught as a fugitive. He's removed from the murder scene. He did not get blood on his shoe. Blah, blah. He had a reason to be seen at the house that day, if he was. d) three weeks is not a long time at all to try to get folks to talk, to match one story with another, to analyze the contents of many videos, not just the one we have seen on the telly, to process all the disparate pieces of evidence e) a great deal is going on behind closed doors.

Not a one hour television episode.

That JW hasn't been arrested yet, or for that matter anyone else, does not demonstrate that he had no involvement or that no one else but Wint had.

The crime does not HAVE to have been more evil than it appears to have been thus far. But if personal betrayal IS involved, if a nice guy turns out to be not nice, but a predator, our denial of that possibility doesn't change the facts. At this time the only and few "facts" at our disposal explain why investigators are taking a hard look at JW.

We say again and again that our theorizing about how and why he could be complicit is just that.

<modsnip>

I think they 100% suspected him in the beginning. The SW;s and CD's support that. Those were all written before anyone had any clue about DW. I would have done everything the police did too. But knowing what has transpired since those first 2 days paints a different picture, in my head anyway. <modsnip>

Fair enough. We can all guess/theorize, etc. Based on what we know, I PERSONALLY will be shocked if JW is not found to have SOME level of involvement. But you may be right in thinking that he is now not suspicious to the police. If you are basing your idea that he is innocent on the fact that LE has not indicated otherwise (the implication being that they must not have ANYTHING on him after weeks of investigating) do you wonder why they havent come out and cleared his name in the media after all this time? Isn't that how things usually work? Clearly they allow him to remain suspicious in the public eye by giving "no comment" on the SW. Why wouldn't they say, "look, for obvious reasons we thought he was involved. Now it's clear that is just a young guy with a lying problem and the victim of a lot of bad luck and unfortunate coincidences. He was not involved in this crime."
?

 

[pinkandgreenmom]

"you need to get home"

If he is innocent, how would he know she was not home??? Am I missing something. How would he know of the explanation SS gave to VF's husband?

This is my guess. The fire breaks out. No one sees family members run out of the house. So the most logical assumption is "the family is not home." I don't think anyone was thinking the family was dead in the house at this time (especially since the fire wasn't very big or the house completely consumed). So someone calls AIW trying to get in touch with SS or any of the S family. I think the message from AIW to JW at the time was do you know where SS is and thus JW could safely assume no one was home at the time.

To be honest, I think JW is involved somehow with this crime. I just don't think his text, no matter how poorly worded or inappropriate (what a way to break terrible news to someone), points to his guilt. But again, that is just my opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

He did not know his family would be killed (and VERALICIA) until they were. Well, we hope not, but perhaps a few minutes before if some brute loud-mouth started in with the "Let's kill the sonofaguns..."
What's so crucial to keep in mind from this post is that WE DO NOT KNOW IF SS WAS STILL ALIVE or anyone else at the stage in question.
An ME can not pinpoint exact time of death, the fire can obscure factors needed to determine exact cause as well, and phone calls unless a credible person identifies the voice can not establish when the last time was that SS or AS was alive. That VF must have not shown the sure signs of death (decapitation, rigor, fixed and dilated in combo with other signs etc. ) that mean medics do not attempt to recusitate (sic) does not tell us in which order they were killed either. A window can be established medically and circumstantially. It can be longer than prosecutors or defense wish it were.

Thanks My Belle.

Sure and ITA with everything you posted.

 

[MyBelle]

This is my guess. The fire breaks out. No one sees family members run out of the house. So the most logical assumption is "the family is not home." I don't think anyone was thinking the family was dead in the house at this time (especially since the fire wasn't very big or the house completely consumed). So someone calls AIW trying to get in touch with SS or any of the S family. I think the message from AIW to JW at the time was do you know where SS is and thus JW could safely assume no one was home at the time.

To be honest, I think JW is involved somehow with this crime. I just don't think his text, no matter how poorly worded or inappropriate (what a way to break terrible news to someone), points to his guilt. But again, that is just my opinion.

BBM. At least one neighbor saw a man pounding on the front door before firefighters arrived so I think neighbors DID assume there were people in the house as smoke poured from the roof.

I think it is impossible for JW to know about the fire at the point in time he did unless he was involved in this crime.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Fair enough. We can all guess/theorize, etc. Based on what we know, I PERSONALLY will be shocked if JW is not found to have SOME level of involvement. But you may be right in thinking that he is now not suspicious to the police. If you are basing your idea that he is innocent on the fact that LE has not indicated otherwise (the implication being that they must not have ANYTHING on him after weeks of investigating) do you wonder why they havent come out and cleared his name in the media after all this time? Isn't that how things usually work? Clearly they allow him to remain suspicious in the public eye by giving "no comment" on the SW. Why wouldn't they say, "look, for obvious reasons we thought he was involved. Now it's clear that is just a young guy with a lying problem and the victim of a lot of bad luck and unfortunate coincidences. He was not involved in this crime."
?

They aren't going to clear anybody who lies to federal agents because that, in itself, is a crime. The fact they haven't charged him with it is an indication to me that they intend to indict him for an offense for which he will not receive bail. And in the meantime, they will watch every move he makes and make sure he knows they are watching him. But, hey, that's just my humble opinion and speculation.

 

[Carolyn1963]

Even more odd to me. Why call AS when she is supposedly getting treated at a hospital to get home because her house is on fire? Did he call 911 to alert the fire department of SS and PS being in possibly being in the home? Idk

I guess we will not know until LE release more details regarding JW and SS communication prior to the fire.

 

[FelicityLemon]

So last night we watched an episode of FBI Files.
It was on the kidnapping of Amy McNiel for $100k ransom in 1985.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...30501_1_kidnapers-texas-rangers-rescue-effort

I still have never figured out why they didn't just abduct Phillip and ask for ransom.
It seems like that is generally how it is done... but maybe they thought this way they'd be more likely to escape?

I think the kidnapping was not planned. I think it was supposed to be an in-and-out robbery. For sure, I think it wasn't planned for DDW to spend overnight there.

Much more risky to transport someone to another crime scene. Too many things can go wrong. Not that this crime went 'right'.

 

[tambo]

Fair enough. We can all guess/theorize, etc. Based on what we know, I PERSONALLY will be shocked if JW is not found to have SOME level of involvement. But you may be right in thinking that he is now not suspicious to the police. If you are basing your idea that he is innocent on the fact that LE has not indicated otherwise (the implication being that they must not have ANYTHING on him after weeks of investigating) do you wonder why they havent come out and cleared his name in the media after all this time? Isn't that how things usually work? Clearly they allow him to remain suspicious in the public eye by giving "no comment" on the SW. Why wouldn't they say, "look, for obvious reasons we thought he was involved. Now it's clear that is just a young guy with a lying problem and the victim of a lot of bad luck and unfortunate coincidences. He was not involved in this crime."
?

one thing that sticks out to me is the fact they waited so long to process his car. I keep thinking that they may have already moved on to other suspects or more pressing details. I'm not sure. He may not be completely cleared by the police but I keep thinking there are a few other people that have popped up in the investigation that seem to be way more closely involved, but were not talking about them because we don't know their names. Well I guess we do know the brother and the cousin's names? I just think they might be of huge interest to the police right now since they were with the one suspect we can all agree on that was involved.

Edit to add. I do believe that the police are totaly investigating a number of people right now. We have only seen SW's from the first few day's. and also the stuff about DW. I think they have probably served numerous other SW;s that we know nothing about. JMO I would also assume that they searched JW's home, I would expect that. I think they would probably have searched the people that were with DW's homes too, and cars etc..... I just think there is so much that we don't know, that we are jumping on just the first days of the investigation and not looking at where this has gone since then.

 

[yepitsme]

BBM. At least one neighbor saw a man pounding on the front door before firefighters arrived so I think neighbors DID assume there were people in the house as smoke poured from the roof.

I think it is impossible for JW to know about the fire at the point in time he did unless he was involved in this crime.

JMO

If it were my neighbor I would knock too. And then I would I would AIW and tell someone to let SS know his house is on fire. Thats how JW knew. Someone calls AIW, they don't know where SS is so they call his assistant. Nothing to see here.

 

[kammiemc]

My thoughts exactly.

l
<modsnip>

LE has said from the git go that they think the alleged perp DW had help. They have left the door open to "further arrests." They have only a day ago finished with the crime scene and all the testing is ongoing. DW's DNA was in the system, he'd been employed and fired from AIW, he'd been arrested brandishing a machete in front of AIW, and main thing, the pizza crust DNA placed him in the house during the kidnapping and torturing and the video placed him at the scene of where the porsche was set afire.
Much more complicated to show a) firm connection between DW and JW b) JW's presence in the house at the time of the kidnap and torture (I mean he's had reason to be in the house before) and he's alibied for time of murders. c) a "planner," one with legitimate reason to have a personal connection to SS, his family, the cars--as opposed to the guy who busts the door down and bludgeons the occupants--is more difficult to build a case against. He wasn't in the system. He wasn't caught as a fugitive. He's removed from the murder scene. He did not get blood on his shoe. Blah, blah. He had a reason to be seen at the house that day, if he was. d) three weeks is not a long time at all to try to get folks to talk, to match one story with another, to analyze the contents of many videos, not just the one we have seen on the telly, to process all the disparate pieces of evidence e) a great deal is going on behind closed doors.

Not a one hour television episode.

That JW hasn't been arrested yet, or for that matter anyone else, does not demonstrate that he had no involvement or that no one else but Wint had.

The crime does not HAVE to have been more evil than it appears to have been thus far. But if personal betrayal IS involved, if a nice guy turns out to be not nice, but a predator, our denial of that possibility doesn't change the facts. At this time the only and few "facts" at our disposal explain why investigators are taking a hard look at JW.

We say again and again that our theorizing about how and why he could be complicit is just that.

<modsnip>

I think they 100% suspected him in the beginning. The SW;s and CD's support that. Those were all written before anyone had any clue about DW. I would have done everything the police did too. But knowing what has transpired since those first 2 days paints a different picture, in my head anyway. <modsnip>

Even if they didn't believe he left money in the car, it would be stupid beyond belief to just assume it and not search the car.
LE can be wrong in what they believe and presumably they realize that. They are told money were in the car. So they would have searched that car.

I have never said A WORD about searching the car because I don't know anything about it, nor do I have a guess about it. I am open to anyone's theory, but I haven't yet read closely enough to understand the implication being made. So no debate from me!

 

[BrownRice]

He was told to place the package in the red car in the garage. There was only one red car in the garage.

But my point is JW didn't KNOW there was only 1 red car in the garage until he got there.