DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #11

[popsicle]

Taking a massive break here. No way to do anything other than speculate, we just have very little to go on. I'll be very curious to see what happens over the next week or so. Wint is in custody, and so, we think (opinion backed by debated accuracy of news reports) is his brother.
At some point that has to yield something.

Maybe LE is no longer looking at JW, and that's why they released the SWs that sounded bad for him. Or maybe they are trying to put the squeeze on him. Or get DW to talk. We just don't know, and it's good we don't. I want them to get this absolutely right. And then nail the bastards, whoever they may be. I can't speculate or theorize anymore, even though it is interesting to try to figure out the angles.
I'm going to wait for LE to tell me what they think.

Of course I'll be watching to see who got it right.

The BBM... IMO this isn't like a baseball game or something. It's the legal system, facts, burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty. Or out in the court of public opinion.... until there is enough evidence to show someone is probably guilty. IMO we are so not there.

 

[blessedlife]

I need some new information here. When do you think there will be more information coming out??? I'm thinking not till a prelim? :banghead:

 

[BrownRice]

I think SS had disabled the Mosler so that it couldn't be driven. I'm talking about removing spark plugs or doing something that--even with a key and code--would make it impossible to drive.

If the purpose for the home invasion was to steal a $700,000 vehicle and the intruders realized that was going to be impossible, that would really make them mad, wouldn't it? So they went with plan B, which was the ransom money and the most they could get was $40,000.

JMO

But SS knew at some point his family was going to be killed and this DW guy was not kidding around. Don't you think he would have enabled it?

 

[MyBelle]

Even if she's named in MSM?

Nate Thayer's blog was approved by mods to be MSM. If that's changed and I missed it, I hope they step in and give us a head's up.

I think if this wasn't correct, the Speedway would be insisting he run a correction but so far, he hasn't, I just checked.

JMO

This investigation has identified “Witness #2 as Wallace’s girlfriend, AB, of Annapolis, Maryland. AB is listed as the “Director of Social Media and photography” at the Autobahn Speedway in Jessup, Maryland, where Wallace had worked before being fired in March, according to several employees of Autobahn Speedway.

http://www.nate-thayer.com/race-car...ect-in-washington-savopoulos-murder-whodunit/

 

[catdoggy21]

I have no doubt they would figure out a way. JMO I believe they do this kind of stuff daily. And I don't think it matters what kind of car it is or how much it's worth. That would not be their concern, they would be concerned with getting evidence. It amazes me that people think just because it is an expensive car means that police won't do what they have to do to get evidence. This car would be treated just as any other car involved in an investigation.

Anything that they do to the car trying to get into it they will have to prove in court that they did not do something the criminal did and vice versa. They are not going to damage/tamper with it for that reason alone. jmo

 

[Peliman]

From the WAPO

After delivering the ransom money, police said, Wallace drove to Chantilly, Va., to help finish building a martial arts studio and authorities confirmed his location by tracking his cellphone and with receipts and surveillance video from a Virginia hardware store he visited. Police said that Wallace received a call from someone at American Iron Works informing him that his boss’s house was on fire and that he immediately drove to Woodland Drive.

more good reading

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...fd3df0-0b96-11e5-9e39-0db921c47b93_story.html

 

[MyBelle]

But SS knew at some point his family was going to be killed and this DW guy was not kidding around. Don't you think he would have enabled it?

I doubt SS knew his family would be killed until after the money was dropped off. Maybe the car required something he didn't have on hand or maybe at that point, he was already dead.

JMO

 

[privateaye]

i have no doubt they would figure out a way. Jmo i believe they do this kind of stuff daily. And i don't think it matters what kind of car it is or how much it's worth. That would not be their concern, they would be concerned with getting evidence. It amazes me that people think just because it is an expensive car means that police won't do what they have to do to get evidence. This car would be treated just as any other car involved in an investigation.

then why wasn't it towed away <modsnip>

 

[BrownRice]

Hey ms Amy are you ok, if so you need to get home I got a call that your house is on fire,” he wrote in one of several texts messages to Amy and Savvos

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...estigation-zeroes-assistant-article-1.2246339

Just dawned on me - could he have been told Amy was in the hospital - that's why is he asking if she is ok? The first 20 times I read this, I thought he was asking if she was ok (while her house was burning down). But no, he is assuming she is not home - says you need to get home.

Of course, this only works in a scenario where he is completely uninvolved with this crime. I'm pretty convinced he is involved.

 

[BrownRice]

Another thing about the "red" car. Wouldn't JW ask which red car when he rec'd the text from SS? He knows SS has many cars (and more than 1 red). Obviously, when he arrived, he would know if there was only 1 red car in the garage but not initially. If someone asked me to deposit a large sum of cash in a random place I would ask for specific details and probably even say hey - can I just give it to you in person?

 

[jjenny]

No, I'm saying the Mosler is evidence. If LE destroy evidence then it becomes inadmissible at trial. I'm not quite as certain as you are that crime scene technicians know how to unlock a $700,000 car.

JMO

Well, if LE doesn't search it all, they won't get any evidence from it.
Is that what you are suggesting? That they would just leave it alone if they couldn't open it?

 

[kammiemc]

My thoughts exactly.

Or maybe, speaking for myself, are just tired of the ridiculous theories that really have no basis in reality. There is no reason to refute them...they speak for themselves.

No, I am not even talking about theories. I am talking about excusing away things such as: the fact that he admittedly lied about his involvement; AND refuting facts such as that LE used carefully crafted language to make it clear in the CD that they were relaying JW's statements as HIS statements, not as facts that they believe to be true. You refuted that and said firmly that they believe it to be true or it wouldn't be in the CD. Those are not ridiculous or silly theories. Those are facts. And those facts, ANY facts that might support LE's suspicion of JW, have been consistently balked at by some. It's almost as if some people think they are more experienced, more informed and more intelligent than the LE who are in the details and strategizing. I personally don't understand that. And I don't think that simply believing LE might be on to something based ON reality, ON the facts we know is silly or ridiculous, just open minded. Generally open mindedness is a trait of smart people, so I certainly don't feel silly or ridiculous to be in that group of thinkers. I get paid to think and strategize. I guess it could be a fluke that I have reached my career goals and I am actually a sub-par thinker...

 

[catdoggy21]

Just dawned on me - could he have been told Amy was in the hospital - that's why is he asking if she is ok? The first 20 times I read this, I thought he was asking if she was ok (while her house was burning down). But no, he is assuming she is not home - says you need to get home.

Of course, this only works in a scenario where he is completely uninvolved with this crime. I'm pretty convinced he is involved.

It also works if JW knew and was in on the plan to have SS or Amy tell people she was sick.jmo

 

[BrownRice]

I doubt SS knew his family would be killed until after the money was dropped off. Maybe the car required something he didn't have on hand or maybe at that point, he was already dead.

JMO

But hasn't it been discussed a lot that PS had been tortured (and was screaming in the background of a call)? I would do anything possible to get this maniac out of my house. SS managed to get $40k for DW, why not the car enabled?

 

[jjenny]

No, I am not even talking about theories. I am talking about excusing away things as facts that he admittedly lied about his involvement AND refuting facts such as that LE used carefully crafted language to make it clear in the CD that they were relaying JW's statements as HIS statements, not as facts that they believe to be true. You refuted that and said firmly that they believe it to be true or it wouldn't be in the CD. Those are ridiculous or silly theories. Those are facts. And those facts, ANY facts that might support LE's suspicion of JW, have been consistently balked at by some. It's almost as if some people think they are more experienced, more informed and more intelligent than the LE who are in the details and strategizing. I personally don't understand that. And I don't think that simply believing LE might be on to something based ON reality, ON the facts we know is silly or ridiculous, just open minded. Generally open mindedness is a trait of smart people, so I am certainly don't feel silly or ridiculous to be in that group of thinkers. I get paid to think and strategize. I guess it could a fluke that I have reached my career goals and I am actually a sub-par thinker...

Even if they didn't believe he left money in the car, it would be stupid beyond belief to just assume it and not search the car.
LE can be wrong in what they believe and presumably they realize that. They are told money were in the car. So they would have searched that car.

 

[tambo]

Anything that they do to the car trying to get into it they will have to prove in court that they did not do something the criminal did and vice versa. They are not going to damage/tamper with it for that reason alone. jmo

hmmmm well then how do they get evidence from cars. i'm sure everything is filmed and logged etc....they collect evidence from locked cars all the time. This is nothing new. unless you think that just in this case they wouldn't search for evidence for some reason, which i just cannot understand. If they thought there was evidence in or on that car they would be all over it. JMO

 

[Peliman]

Just dawned on me - could he have been told Amy was in the hospital - that's why is he asking if she is ok? The first 20 times I read this, I thought he was asking if she was ok (while her house was burning down). But no, he is assuming she is not home - says you need to get home.

Of course, this only works in a scenario where he is completely uninvolved with this crime. I'm pretty convinced he is involved.

Can't speak for him, he'd supposedly just learned the house was on fire asking if she was ok. IDK

Hey ms Amy are you ok, if so you need to get home I got a call that your house is on fire,&#8221; he wrote in one of several texts messages to Amy and Savvos

 

[birpu]

The BBM... IMO this isn't like a baseball game or something. It's the legal system, facts, burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty. Or out in the court of public opinion.... until there is enough evidence to show someone is probably guilty. IMO we are so not there.

My point was really that all our "debate" on here is only debating about our opinions.

You are right, this is a question of facts and the law. That's why I'm not speculating any more, it's pointless. But I will still wonder if the speculations were correct, it's a natural thing to want to know. The "wink" at the end was not to make light of any of this. Far from it, and I will not take the baseball game reference personally, I'm sure you would not stoop to insult anyone. The wink was in reference to all the tough stances about what are only opinions/theories on here. None of us knows, all we have are opionions about opinions.
Now I really am quitting.

 

[emmavoberry]

And would he put a job he seemed to love in jeopardy like that? I know what the next response will be...someone will just come back with it was only a temporary job and he was planning this crime and his job didn't matter.

This crime is so evil on it's own merit. I honestly do not understand - and have said this from the beginning - why it has to be so much more dastardly than it is on face value. The SW for JW was issued 3+ weeks ago. The Mosler registration discovered 2 1/2 weeks ago. If there was anything to it, he would be behind bars IMO.

The scene and cars have all been released back to the family. No futher arrests have been made. IMO, if LE had any further interest in JW, if they didn't have their answers answered to their satisfaction, that would not be the case.

LE has said from the git go that they think the alleged perp DW had help. They have left the door open to "further arrests." They have only a day ago finished with the crime scene and all the testing is ongoing. DW's DNA was in the system, he'd been employed and fired from AIW, he'd been arrested brandishing a machete in front of AIW, and main thing, the pizza crust DNA placed him in the house during the kidnapping and torturing and the video placed him at the scene of where the porsche was set afire.
Much more complicated to show a) firm connection between DW and JW b) JW's presence in the house at the time of the kidnap and torture (I mean he's had reason to be in the house before) and he's alibied for time of murders. c) a "planner," one with legitimate reason to have a personal connection to SS, his family, the cars--as opposed to the guy who busts the door down and bludgeons the occupants--is more difficult to build a case against. He wasn't in the system. He wasn't caught as a fugitive. He's removed from the murder scene. He did not get blood on his shoe. Blah, blah. He had a reason to be seen at the house that day, if he was. d) three weeks is not a long time at all to try to get folks to talk, to match one story with another, to analyze the contents of many videos, not just the one we have seen on the telly, to process all the disparate pieces of evidence e) a great deal is going on behind closed doors.

Not a one hour television episode.

That JW hasn't been arrested yet, or for that matter anyone else, does not demonstrate that he had no involvement or that no one else but Wint had.

The crime does not HAVE to have been more evil than it appears to have been thus far. But if personal betrayal IS involved, if a nice guy turns out to be not nice, but a predator, our denial of that possibility doesn't change the facts. At this time the only and few "facts" at our disposal explain why investigators are taking a hard look at JW.

We say again and again that our theorizing about how and why he could be complicit is just that.

<modsnip>

 

[corundogs]

Another thing about the "red" car. Wouldn't JW ask which red car when he rec'd the text from SS? He knows SS has many cars (and more than 1 red). Obviously, when he arrived, he would know if there was only 1 red car in the garage but not initially. If someone asked me to deposit a large sum of cash in a random place I would ask for specific details and probably even say hey - can I just give it to you in person?

And since Phillip being home sick had already been used in this crime...and Amy was also used as an excuse that she was sick and then in the hospital...it doesn't seem a stretch to me that Savvas would have said "Leave it in the car...so you don't disturb Phillip!" Someone even mentioned he could have said he was on a conference call and just leave it out in the garage. Sick kid/wife seems more plausible to me, but if conference call works...fine by me.

AS and PS being sick is the excuse used, that has been verified by witnesses. Those are facts. NG and VF's husband have both stated it in MSM. So did Dominos.