DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #13

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Skigirl said:
Good point. Unfortunately, I am not sure it would have changed the outcome. In the Petit case, the police had about 45 minutes from the time Mrs. Petit informed the bank that her entire family was being held hostage and when the house went up in flames, and the police were nowhere near taking action. They were "setting up a perimeter" and had no plans to do anything like storm the house. In the Petit's case, I think that the police would never have done more than catch the perps as the fled the scene even if they had the perimeter set up for 10 hours. They would not have entered the house or done anything particularly active to save the family. I don't think there was anything especially bad about the Cheshire, CT police, but I just think police are not trained to deal with hostage situations by taking radical action, which I think would have been needed in this case.
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IMO Washington DC police, fire and federal tactical forces would be more aggressive and effective to take action sooner. Besides DW, although a vicious and violent person was not a killer before this. He is mean but basically a coward who intimidates people by his threats of violence, against women, and by ambush.
 
Skigirl said:
Unfortunatley, I think if police had gone to the door to do a welfare check, they would have found nobody home, everything to be just fine/no sign of trouble and left. They would not have busted down the door. I think it's unlikely that DW would have answered or permitted one of the other hostages to answer the door. The only thing I can think of that might have changed the outcome is that if couple patrol officers knocked on the door, DW might have decided to screw the whole thing and highed tail it out of there ASAP after LE left, without setting the fire for fear of drawing attention back to the house.
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The horror is that Mr. S might well have been ordered to go to the door and just as he had done via the phone, he would have made LE think all was well. One of the reasons I envisage more than one holding the four is that Mr. S was monitored on the phone so that anytime he might have alerted anyone, an accomplice could threaten or actually harm PS.

JMO one person monitors Mr. S at all times (and certainly if he was ever out of restraints) while one, in sight of Mr. S., demonstrates his capacity to harm PS at all times.

Mr. S. probably had a strong ability to weight benefits and risks, as well as an instinct about people, and in particular, any adversary. We know, based on the public record now, that DW was unhinged, impulsive, rage-driven, sociopathic, and impervious to consequences. Despite all his brushes with the law, and risking deportation, he continued to threaten, terrorize, stab.
JMO Mr. S. saw that DW would not hesitate to go for broke as LE closed in. DW had warned Mr. S.,and moreover, he had demonstrated on PS that he meant business and would not be deterred.

Mr. S. could not take a gamble. Had a knock on the door come from LE, either he would have assured them by phone or at the door, knowing that any tip-off and DW would "cut his losses," just as Komisarjevsky and Hayes did in the Petit case. DW's last last Feck you to the world would be to kill PS. Mr. S. had made an assessment and continued to as the hours went on.

What we are asking is 1) any way this horror could have been prevented? 2) any way it could have been stopped once underway?

It's the what ifs that will continue to haunt survivors. The rest of us would like to think in the same situation we could control our fate and the fate of those we love. This case forces us to think twice.

JMO Once inside the house, all bets were off. Mr. S., his family, Mrs. F. I am sure did all in their power to survive. Once inside the house, a monster and possible accomplices were in control. They gained control of PS and thus from then on, Mr. S. could only buy time, try to offer them something to make them go away, comply with their demands.

The one solace for the public (what solace can there be but a higher power for survivors?) is that DW must finally face justice and comply with it. He can never be in control again. Justice may come too late, but it will come. It has come for him.
 
Didn't I read a thread or two ago that someone found that his brother was still in custody?

I haven't seen this discussed much, if at all.

Is there a reason for that?
 
emmavoberry said:
The horror is that Mr. S might well have been ordered to go to the door and just as he had done via the phone, he would have made LE think all was well. One of the reasons I envisage more than one holding the four is that Mr. S was monitored on the phone so that anytime he might have alerted anyone, an accomplice could threaten or actually harm PS.

JMO one person monitors Mr. S at all times (and certainly if he was ever out of restraints) while one, in sight of Mr. S., demonstrates his capacity to harm PS at all times.

Mr. S. probably had a strong ability to weight benefits and risks, as well as an instinct about people, and in particular, any adversary. We know, based on the public record now, that DW was unhinged, impulsive, rage-driven, sociopathic, and impervious to consequences. Despite all his brushes with the law, and risking deportation, he continued to threaten, terrorize, stab.
JMO Mr. S. saw that DW would not hesitate to go for broke as LE closed in. DW had warned Mr. S.,and moreover, he had demonstrated on PS that he meant business and would not be deterred.

Mr. S. could not take a gamble. Had a knock on the door come from LE, either he would have assured them by phone or at the door, knowing that any tip-off and DW would "cut his losses," just as Komisarjevsky and Hayes did in the Petit case. DW's last last Feck you to the world would be to kill PS. Mr. S. had made an assessment and continued to as the hours went on.

What we are asking is 1) any way this horror could have been prevented? 2) any way it could have been stopped once underway?

It's the what ifs that will continue to haunt survivors. The rest of us would like to think in the same situation we could control our fate and the fate of those we love. This case forces us to think twice.

JMO Once inside the house, all bets were off. Mr. S., his family, Mrs. F. I am sure did all in their power to survive. Once inside the house, a monster and possible accomplices were in control. They gained control of PS and thus from then on, Mr. S. could only buy time, try to offer them something to make them go away, comply with their demands.

The one solace for the public (what solace can there be but a higher power for survivors?) is that DW must finally face justice and comply with it. He can never be in control again. Justice may come too late, but it will come. It has come for him.
Click to expand...

Thank you! True DW won't be in control again....unless he makes a woman "feel special" and has her help him break out of prison. I'm sure the families of Matt & Sweat's victims are furious.


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facundo said:
IMO Washington DC police, fire and federal tactical forces would be more aggressive and effective to take action sooner. Besides DW, although a vicious and violent person was not a killer before this. He is mean but basically a coward who intimidates people by his threats of violence, against women, and by ambush.
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Absolutely agree. The protocol has changed across the boards for armed hostage situations and mass shootings. BUT, a welfare check is easily satisfied.
DW had not killed before because his victim survived (twice) his attempt to kill. Chalk that up to luck of the victim, not DW's not being a homicidal threat. He was exactly that.
 
emmavoberry said:
The horror is that Mr. S might well have been ordered to go to the door and just as he had done via the phone, he would have made LE think all was well. One of the reasons I envisage more than one holding the four is that Mr. S was monitored on the phone so that anytime he might have alerted anyone, an accomplice could threaten or actually harm PS.

JMO one person monitors Mr. S at all times (and certainly if he was ever out of restraints) while one, in sight of Mr. S., demonstrates his capacity to harm PS at all times.

Mr. S. probably had a strong ability to weight benefits and risks, as well as an instinct about people, and in particular, any adversary. We know, based on the public record now, that DW was unhinged, impulsive, rage-driven, sociopathic, and impervious to consequences. Despite all his brushes with the law, and risking deportation, he continued to threaten, terrorize, stab.
JMO Mr. S. saw that DW would not hesitate to go for broke as LE closed in. DW had warned Mr. S.,and moreover, he had demonstrated on PS that he meant business and would not be deterred.

Mr. S. could not take a gamble. Had a knock on the door come from LE, either he would have assured them by phone or at the door, knowing that any tip-off and DW would "cut his losses," just as Komisarjevsky and Hayes did in the Petit case. DW's last last Feck you to the world would be to kill PS. Mr. S. had made an assessment and continued to as the hours went on.

What we are asking is 1) any way this horror could have been prevented? 2) any way it could have been stopped once underway?

It's the what ifs that will continue to haunt survivors. The rest of us would like to think in the same situation we could control our fate and the fate of those we love. This case forces us to think twice.

JMO Once inside the house, all bets were off. Mr. S., his family, Mrs. F. I am sure did all in their power to survive. Once inside the house, a monster and possible accomplices were in control. They gained control of PS and thus from then on, Mr. S. could only buy time, try to offer them something to make them go away, comply with their demands.

The one solace for the public (what solace can there be but a higher power for survivors?) is that DW must finally face justice and comply with it. He can never be in control again. Justice may come too late, but it will come. It has come for him.
Click to expand...

Well said! May anyone responsible and participated to this horrific crime rot in hell. They surely will.


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corundogs said:
Didn't I read a thread or two ago that someone found that his brother was still in custody?

I haven't seen this discussed much, if at all.

Is there a reason for that?
Click to expand...

Interesting, I thought his companions were released. How many brothers does DW have? I am aware of of a "full" sister, "half" sister and one "full" brother. Are there more? Of course, cousins.


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facundo said:
RE: JW's BMW search warrant return. Note, there is no reference to the so called "red bag" or "red lined bag" as noted in the SW. Obs: Red lined bag is probably a bag with a red lining.
Click to expand...

I am not caught up on what you are trying to clarify (or get clarified), so hopefully this won't be totally irrelevant, but as per the charging doc, in the 9 AM text to W-2 from JW, the bag in the pic in which the two bundles were seen was described by LE as "red lined." However, in the same doc, LE wrote that when JW was shown the text, he admitted he lied about how received the money and put the bundles in what he described as a "red bag" that belonged to him. Red bag with red lining? Bank bag? Racing bag? Who knows. He said he placed it into a manila envelope, so it couldn't have been too big if that's the case.

If JW's final account of dropping off the money is correct, then the red bag is with DW. If one were to wonder, based on his conflicting stories, that his final story was still false and he actually held onto the bag, one place he might have kept that bag is in his car, or he could have stashed it someplace less conspicuous if he were smart.. Or he could have produced the bag for LE for all we know. It's all a frustrating mystery.


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Carolyn1963 said:
Interesting, I thought his companions were released. How many brothers does DW have? I am aware of of a "full" sister, "half" sister and one "full" brother. Are there more? Of course, cousins.


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Steffan I think is how it was spelled. It was discussed that his brother who he was arrested with was not released. But there was no confirmation.

Then late last week sometime, someone looked him up and it said "in custody".

I have zero idea who posted that. I have no way of knowing what day it was posted. And I am too tired to read through thousands of posts to try to find it. LOL!!

Hopefully the person is still reading here and will speak up...

:uthere:
 
Carolyn1963 said:
Well said! May anyone responsible and participated to this horrific crime rot in hell. They surely will.


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I am not terribly religious. In this case, I hope for a "judgement day," as prison is not enough punishment. I wish we could bring the victims back. Nothing will. Justice though, as reasonable as the word sounds, has evolved as a way for society to re-gain balance, to re-dress grievance against it. Whoever it turns out perpetrated this evil has, in a sense, struck out against and caused grievance to all of us. Unfortunately, even Devil's Island is too good a place to house such an offender; one lifetime not a long enough sentence. I agree that eternal hellfire might go a ways to repaying such an immeasurable debt to society.
There is no way this monster can recompense the victims or their families.
May he never harm another.
 
corundogs said:
Steffan I think is how it was spelled. It was discussed that his brother who he was arrested with was not released. But there was no confirmation.

Then late last week sometime, someone looked him up and it said "in custody".

I have zero idea who posted that. I have no way of knowing what day it was posted. And I am too tired to read through thousands of posts to try to find it. LOL!!

Hopefully the person is still reading here and will speak up...

:uthere:
Click to expand...

Lol! I am watching the basketball game. Now the brother you mentioned does have the the right body build of the POI video released early in the case. And the company he worked for did work at PS school. Maybe just a coincidence? Not sure.


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corundogs said:
I agree. I don't know where this "was a 4 but now a 5" is coming from.

If you look at the other 3's on that page...it is definitely a 3.

And there is no other number underneath that 3.
Click to expand...

Here is a close up view of item G7.5BMW return Item G7.5.jpg
 
Carolyn1963 said:
I could be wrong but I think DW would have killed them immediately since SS knew exactly DW's identity. The only way DW may have decided not to kill them is if he thought the house was surrounded by LE and no means of escaping. IDK

I am thankful VF's husband made it out alive.


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Click to expand...

Yeah, DW had said before to (I believe) his old girlfriend that he isn't afraid of police. He was also shocked when he was arrested for murdering SS. He seemed to think he was above the law, and if hold no value for human life, that likely includes his own. He very well might have killed whoever he could before being taken down by LE. But maybe he wouldn't be able to get to all the victims. And maybe his accomplices would not be as ready to kill with LE there. One or more victims might have been spared.

Or maybe not. But it seems that LE intervention might have been their only chance. Ugh.


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Skigirl said:
Good point. Unfortunately, I am not sure it would have changed the outcome. In the Petit case, the police had about 45 minutes from the time Mrs. Petit informed the bank that her entire family was being held hostage and when the house went up in flames, and the police were nowhere near taking action. They were "setting up a perimeter" and had no plans to do anything like storm the house. In the Petit's case, I think that the police would never have done more than catch the perps as the fled the scene even if they had the perimeter set up for 10 hours. They would not have entered the house or done anything particularly active to save the family. I don't think there was anything especially bad about the Cheshire, CT police, but I just think police are not trained to deal with hostage situations by taking radical action, which I think would have been needed in this case.
Click to expand...

I don't think Cheshire police had any experience with hostage situations. It's a small town, normally very quiet.
 
kammiemc said:
I tend to agree. Speaking in a confusing way that can be misconstrued by a reporter, being misquoted, heck even lying outright to a reporter due to stress or wanting to be seen as a central figure in something that has rocked her world, isn't illegal. It's different than lying to LE, who will continue to probe in order to get the facts straight.

It appears that she cared very much for the family and her longtime friend.

I don't know what makes people more or less inclined to open up to the media after tragedy, but it seems like the inclination to share openly (although obviously she is holding some info back, likely on the request of LE) would point more to innocence than the opposite.

Regardless that anything is possible at this point, there has been nothing to show that LE thinks she is even slightly suspicious, let alone a suspect.






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Click to expand...

And thus questions about whether or not she "knew" DW, why she has chosen to talk to the press, or who she called when--except where such questions would enlighten us as to facts pertaining to the crime--are out of order. In fact, due to the implication behind questions like "are you sure she did not know DW?," and "why did she tell the press X, when in fact Y?" I suggest humbly that this line of inquiry be closed.
As well, though it is regrettable that NO ONE figured out the family and Mrs. F. were being held hostages and would be killed, it seems futile and inappropriate to second-guess the inability of AIW officials, Pizza parlor personnel, Mr. F., NG, PS's school, the lawn company, the dogs, BoA, or any other NON-PSYCHIC entity to foresee the victims' plight and so be able to save them.
 
kammiemc said:
I am not caught up on what you are trying to clarify (or get clarified), so hopefully this won't be totally irrelevant, but as per the charging doc, in the 9 AM text to W-2 from JW, the bag in the pic in which the two bundles were seen was described by LE as "red lined." However, in the same doc, LE wrote that when JW was shown the text, he admitted he lied about how received the money and put the bundles in what he described as a "red bag" that belonged to him. Red bag with red lining? Bank bag? Racing bag? Who knows. He said he placed it into a manila envelope, so it couldn't have been too big if that's the case.

If JW's final account of dropping off the money is correct, then the red bag is with DW. If one were to wonder, based on his conflicting stories, that his final story was still false and he actually held onto the bag, one place he might have kept that bag is in his car, or he could have stashed it someplace less conspicuous if he were smart.. Or he could have produced the bag for LE for all we know. It's all a frustrating mystery.


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Click to expand...

What I was clarifying is that the "search warrant return" i.e, the inventory of items recovered pursuant to the search warrant did not produce the red bag or red lined bag they were looking for as listed in the warrant.
 
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