DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #14

[MyBelle]

I agree about most people being a mixture, but it's just that DW's history of violence isn't easy to set aside. I actually do give him credit for having had a job for a while. I don't know his work history, only what was reported about his attitude while at AIW and that SS tried to help him keep his job by moving him. He eventually had to fire him. How much he made vs JW - who cares? That has nothing to do with work ethic, morals, criminal activity.

What "bad" is there to see in JW at this point? He lied to police? That's "bad"? It's not wise, but it doesn't make him a bad person or even qualify as anything other than unwise.

My personal reason for not making fun of JW is that I think it's not nice because he's not been named a suspect by LE. He hasn't been cleared either, but all he's done so far is lie to police. Not wise, but not criminal.

I just keep going back to the thought that what if it was me, inadvertently caught up in something of this magnitude that made the news and people did their damnest to dig up every little bit of real-life me to make fun of. It's just mean-spirited, embarrassing and the humiliating critiques of a human being who so far, is innocent. :/
I'd be horrified. It can be embarrassing to discover things about yourself in therapy, I can't imagine anonymous, armchair diagnosing lay people giving their opinions on my personality, behavior, lifestyle, ego.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem making fun of DW. Yes, I see my hypocrisy. My pathetic justification to myself is that DW is not just "a good guy who hung around with the wrong crowd, or a good guy who made some bad choices" btw: I HATE when people use the term "made MISTAKES" when referring to conscious and repeated acts of crime and violence. He's been a for years. I don't care if he volunteered in soup kitchens and nursed orphan puppies between bouts of beating and stabbing people, that doesn't make him even partway "good". There are no redeeming qualities in someone who takes what they want and does what they want at the expense of another human being and lives. He shows a complete disregard for life, laws and human decency. He's a slug. HE's the legend in his own mind, not JW.

I don't know, maybe JWs got a tough hide or doesn't care. I certainly hope that's the case.

I can't get past the idea that if he knew about the 40k and gave info to DW, then that would mean JW premeditated kidnap since that's the only way I could see someone getting that money from SS. On second thought, why not just stage a robbery of JW (and SS if being driven by JW) after they picked up the 40k while on his way to the dojo as planned? There are other ways that this could have gone down to not include kidnap and murder.

If JW was involved in any way, dw would have most certainly already given him up and JW'd be in custody. DW has nothing to lose at this point, so I don't think he'd hesitate to nail JW if involved. The only thing DW might have to fear is gang members for naming names if they exist.

BBM. Lying to federal investigators is not wise because it is a crime. This murder/arson is being investigated by a team that includes federal investigators. By telling these lies and admitting it, he has made himself a suspect even though he hasn't been officially named a suspect.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

JMO

 

[FelicityLemon]

People who look nice and are charismatic and charming get away with a lot. They don't fool us. We fool ourselves. Look at Ted Bundy, Scott Peterson. You have to watch your own biases as that will lead you to miss a lot .

Yes, you do have to watch your own biases as that will lead you to miss a lot.

Is it because I tend to look on the bright side of human nature? I don't judge by facade, and in fact, I'm overly suspicious of "charm and charisma" because to me, those are tools of manipulation, masks. I don't like feeling as though someone is trying to sell me something I can't see. I tend to balk and go the opposite direction if someone is telling me they're just too swell.

I arrived late to this party and saw no social media of JW.

I have no idea about his personality or character other than what some post here (and those are opinions) and some info from LE. I might agree with you guys on some things if I'd seen those things, but I still wouldn't think he was guilty of kidnap, torture and murder. I still wouldn't think he was guilty of being a mastermind of this. As I said before, there were other ways of getting that cash that don't involve kidnap, torture and murder.

I also tend to be overly suspicious of some people and can put together a conspiracy theory of connections like nobody's business, lol! It doesn't make it so.

So far, the only judgmental thing I would venture to say about JW is that he lacks some maturity and wisdom, but again, that doesn't make him a bad person or a criminal. As they say "it takes one to know one" - me. I base my uninformed personal opinion solely on his taking the photo of cash and lying to LE.

JW could be a complete *advertiser censored* for all I know. What I do know is that he's not been named a suspect nor has he been arrested. Maybe you're giving him too much credit in a different direction than I am.

That's it.

Oh, and I was in the area and of the age for Ted Bundy and had I met him, he would have given me the creeps. Scott Peterson comes off as too smooth. Not every female was sucked in, thank heavens. Neither of them struck my fancy visually, so...

ETA: I think you and I have very different ideas of who "looks nice".

 

[khaki]

Hi atthelake:wave: Yes, both items are from the same legal document. I copied items 7 and 8 from the linked PDF and converted to word and then posted them verbatim. (spelling errors and all). And totally agree, some of it can definitely be interpreted in different ways.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documen...arch-warrant-for-car-in-savopoulos-family.pdf

 

[popsicle]

Where did I get that he said he put the red bag in the envelope? I must have thought that JW stated that, but now I am thinking it was a few posters on this site who were interpreting it that way--maybe because they thought it would bode better for JW to not have the red bag, with a possible cut of money, in his possession. I always thought that getting a red bag to fit in an envelope defied physics, but then the same posters suggested it was a bank bag, which COULD fit into an envelope. So I was like, okay, that's a possibility--weird that the guy carries around his own red bank bag, but whatevs! It's funny how our minds work. We have a belief, then we kind of backfill it in with the facts that support our belief and ignore the rest. (I absolutely include myself in this. I think it's human nature!)


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It was an abc article.

 

[Skigirl]

I agree about most people being a mixture, but it's just that DW's history of violence isn't easy to set aside. I actually do give him credit for having had a job for a while. I don't know his work history, only what was reported about his attitude while at AIW and that SS tried to help him keep his job by moving him. He eventually had to fire him. How much he made vs JW - who cares? That has nothing to do with work ethic, morals, criminal activity.

What "bad" is there to see in JW at this point? He lied to police? That's "bad"? It's not wise, but it doesn't make him a bad person or even qualify as anything other than unwise.

My personal reason for not making fun of JW is that I think it's not nice because he's not been named a suspect by LE. He hasn't been cleared either, but all he's done so far is lie to police. Not wise, but not criminal.

I just keep going back to the thought that what if it was me, inadvertently caught up in something of this magnitude that made the news and people did their damnest to dig up every little bit of real-life me to make fun of. It's just mean-spirited, embarrassing and the humiliating critiques of a human being who so far, is innocent. :/
I'd be horrified. It can be embarrassing to discover things about yourself in therapy, I can't imagine anonymous, armchair diagnosing lay people giving their opinions on my personality, behavior, lifestyle, ego.

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem making fun of DW. Yes, I see my hypocrisy. My pathetic justification to myself is that DW is not just "a good guy who hung around with the wrong crowd, or a good guy who made some bad choices" btw: I HATE when people use the term "made MISTAKES" when referring to conscious and repeated acts of crime and violence. He's been a for years. I don't care if he volunteered in soup kitchens and nursed orphan puppies between bouts of beating and stabbing people, that doesn't make him even partway "good". There are no redeeming qualities in someone who takes what they want and does what they want at the expense of another human being and lives. He shows a complete disregard for life, laws and human decency. He's a slug. HE's the legend in his own mind, not JW.

I don't know, maybe JWs got a tough hide or doesn't care. I certainly hope that's the case.

I can't get past the idea that if he knew about the 40k and gave info to DW, then that would mean JW premeditated kidnap since that's the only way I could see someone getting that money from SS. On second thought, why not just stage a robbery of JW (and SS if being driven by JW) after they picked up the 40k while on his way to the dojo as planned? There are other ways that this could have gone down to not include kidnap and murder.

If JW was involved in any way, dw would have most certainly already given him up and JW'd be in custody. DW has nothing to lose at this point, so I don't think he'd hesitate to nail JW if involved. The only thing DW might have to fear is gang members for naming names if they exist.

Lying to LE is not just bad judgment, it's 'making false statements,' which is a illegal.

 

[blessedlife]

If they have a clear picture, why haven't they arrested anyone else? The are the ones who claimed DW wasn't alone.

I think they are beginning their defense strategy.......in the media. Not sure what that strategy is but feels like the attorney is "planting" a seed for a defense.


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[facundo]

I'm not an attorney or LE. What do we expect to happen in the next month? Will more documents be unsealed? What triggers that? Do we think a gang may be arrested in the middle of stealing or breaking down cars by SWAT? Will DW's attorney spin more stories publicly? Plea deal? What do we expect in next month?..

I'm reposting since nobody responded.....

There are no facts about the future. (Lincoln Moses)

 

[blessedlife]

That probably wouldn't work for me...

"I still have chips - I can't leave the table!"

My husband and I went to the South of France for our honeymoon. My first experience with gambling. Famous last words: "Oh look! They take AmEx!"

Good to know.......we can NEVER meet in Vegas. I can't leave the table either, or the slots. [emoji79]


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[kammiemc]

Both of these articles were taken from the same legal document? Just as we have our different opinions & interpretation ...so did the media folks?

I think what gets really confusing as to how to interpret is what LE knows to be true vs what LE is simply saying that JW stated.

It seems like they are saying he went to the bank, but then you realize that it connected to a sentence that say "IT stated..." So maybe it came from a safe at AIW for all we know.

Not to throw a wrench into things, but do we even know it was truly $40k that was picked up or was that just what JW stated?


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[Keefer]

A lot of folks on forums such as this seem to think that they can size people up and decide for everyone what that person is or is not capable of. They can from just a few facts get inside their heads and weave all kinds of exciting events and how they could happen. They know who those people would or would not associate with.
It's great we have people with such rich imaginations around here...
My advice is let them say their peace, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't take it all so seriously.

 

[Skigirl]

Where did I get that he said he put the red bag in the envelope? I must have thought that JW stated that, but now I am thinking it was a few posters on this site who were interpreting it that way--maybe because they thought it would bode better for JW to not have the red bag, with a possible cut of money, in his possession. I always thought that getting a red bag to fit in an envelope defied physics, but then the same posters suggested it was a bank bag, which COULD fit into an envelope. So I was like, okay, that's a possibility--weird that the guy carries around his own red bank bag, but whatevs! It's funny how our minds work. We have a belief, then we kind of backfill it in with the facts that support our belief and ignore the rest. (I absolutely include myself in this. I think it's human nature!)


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Hah, yes. I remember back in the old days, in thread, like 6, when that idea first arose. I think its genesis was that some people thought that the red-lined bag probably had half the cash (since the charging documents mentioned that $20K was visible in the photo that was texted to W2) and that he put the other half in the manilla envelope that was putatively left in the car. Someone on Team JW explained the two bags by saying, "maybe it's just that the red bag was put INTO the manilla envelope with all 40K". It is pretty funny how speculation can take on a life its own just by repetition.

 

[yepitsme]

JW lying was all kinds of bad and correctly raised suspicions of LE. But nothing has come from that, nothing. Unless and until we hear something more compelling, I am uncomfortable with the rush to judgment here. A lot of assumptions are being made about what JW thinks, who he hangs out with, why he was fired and all of these assumptions start from the idea that he is involved. I am not closed to the idea that he might be involved but anything beyond the facts that we know just isn't compelling. And if he isn't involved we're doing a great disservice here.

 

[Skigirl]

A lot of folks on forums such as this seem to think that they can size people up and decide for everyone what that person is or is not capable of. They can from just a few facts get inside their heads and weave all kinds of exciting events and how they could happen. They know who those people would or would not associate with.
It's great we have people with such rich imaginations around here...
My advice is let them say their peace, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just don't take it all so seriously.

People aren't even that good at sizing up others when they know them in person!

Take, for example, Yale animal tech Ray Clark. I think people thought he was a little bit tightly wound when it came to holding research staff up to animal cage cleanliness standards, but no one thought he would just suddenly fly into a rage and rape and murder Annie Le: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Annie_Le

 

[Keefer]

We don't know what we don't know.
We likely will never know 10% of what the police know right now.
A few facts, and what's reported in the media
We will never likely have access to Police reports, polygraphs, interviews, forensics, etc. etc.
You have got to embrace your limitations.

 

[facundo]

BBM. Lying to federal investigators is not wise because it is a crime. This murder/arson is being investigated by a team that includes federal investigators. By telling these lies and admitting it, he has made himself a suspect even though he hasn't been officially named a suspect.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

JMO

JW was interrogated by DCMPD, Major Crimes/Cold Case Homicide Unit, (SW para. 6), not federal investigators. Although federal resources were later brought to bear in this crime, 18 USC § 1001 would not apply during the interview on 05/14.

 

[rkf]

Link for "board position". Not what I read or posted links to ^^^. TIA.

Sigma Investment Strategies is a hedge fund, set up in PR in April 2013 for tax purposes (just like people often set up LLCs in Arizona and Delaware for the lower rates.) It has annual meetings. Until a board was set up (which had apparently not yet happened), SS was the sole officer. It appears that the S family's legal/primary residence was in the USVI, as stated on the LLC's articles of incorporation. Because the owner is a resident in a different "state", it's a "foreign" entity, requiring a registered agent during work hours. The address given in PR is for the registered agent - sort of like a P.O. Box, not real offices, although some of these RA companies provide board meeting rooms and temporary offices.

I think the story about the S family planning to move to PR sprung from an unnamed business associate who said the S family planned to do that. It's possible they planned to move there in a few years, after PS started boarding school or college, but I don't think it was ever confirmed that the family planned to move to PR soon. There has been nothing said about SS turning over the business to another CEO, and AIW requires a more hands-on leader than the fledgling financial services firm in PR. I can't find it now, but I read early on about Sigma - it required a minimum investment of 1 or 2 million dollars, and I'm not sure anyone other than SS had put money in. When I read about it, I remember thinking that at this point, the company might be sort of like when someone wants to flip houses and gets their real estate license so they can do all the paperwork themselves, and save the 6%. If it's all or mostly SS' money, the firm might be a way to more directly invest without going through a broker. JMO

Unless we can read it from source documents, I don't believe anything reported in MSM about this crime. Nothing. The reporting has been abysmal and it has shaken my faith in anything I read in the media about any subject. Very eye-opening for me.

https://prcorpfiling.f1hst.com/CorpInfo/CorporationInfo.aspx

 

[kammiemc]

JW lying was all kinds of bad and correctly raised suspicions of LE. But nothing has come from that, nothing. Unless and until we hear something more compelling, I am uncomfortable with the rush to judgment here. A lot of assumptions are being made about what JW thinks, who he hangs out with, why he was fired and all of these assumptions start from the idea that he is involved. I am not closed to the idea that he might be involved but anything beyond the facts that we know just isn't compelling. And if he isn't involved we're doing a great disservice here.

Not to underestimate the power of talk, but i am not so sure that any uninformed speculation on the part of anonymous posters on an online chat room, even if made privy to someone involved in the case would have any impact at all. I just don't think we hold too much importance or influence. I could be wrong. It's not as though anything we say to each other is broadcast to the world as verified fact on MSM. If someone's life is ruined because they lied in a quadruple homicide case, that is very unfortunate for that person, but I wouldn't blame that on public speculation that that behavior is suspicious.


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[Keefer]

I've known some folks that used to work in journalism.
They feel there is very little true investigative work being down by any nationally
Prominent news organizations today.

 

[CoreyRocks]

Or that may be a trust for his daughters. A lot of wealthy families have homes owned by trusts to avoid taxes when children inherit.

I agree.
I had posted in response to the poster that was curious about an inside map of the home. It did not post and my screen did something weird. Being new I wasn't sure if it was my error or do some posts never make it into the thead. ?????

Anyway I Googled their home address and did not realize the home was on what is called Embassy Row and it was built in 1928. There were other addresses on the same block that had still photos of the inside on Homevisit virtual tours website. I could not find theirs.

But it does appear that their home was purchased and placed in a trust according to online real estate records.

 

[rkf]

Even if he flew to PR frequently, it would be cheaper to fly commercial than maintain a private jet. I'm sure it was a fun toy, but not practical IMO. Maybe he sold it to put the money into his new investment company in PR, since he sold it before Sigma was set up.