DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #15

[kammiemc]

I finally watched the CNN special. More depressing and slightly frustrating than informative if you've been following this case.

This will be an unpopular opinion, but I still do not believe that JW is cleared of any involvement. I am more inclined to believe he is working with LE and they have determined that his involvement is not hands-on in the murder. In fact, the language "did not commit this crime" is very specific. I still very much believe he might have been voluntold what his role would be. This special changes none of that. He's got a lot bigger issues than what a gal on the west coast speculates on a chat room, and my heart is squarely with the family, so I am not too worried about hurting his feelings right now. LE is not stupid. They outed him for a reason.

 

[OTPTarheel]

Huh? MSM has extensively covered the hostage situation and the $40,000 in ransom.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...estigation-zeroes-assistant-article-1.2246339

In the state I live in kidnapping means taking the person/s. I read the DC legal definition and asportation is not necessary in DC for it to be kidnapping. It is necessary where I live for a charge of kidnapping.
To me holding someone hostage and kidnapping someone mean different things.
I interpreted it as DW and the crew came to kidnap SS and the plan went wacky, but removal of SS from the residence not necessary in DC.

 

[FelicityLemon]

In the state I live in kidnapping means taking the person/s. I read the DC legal definition and asportation is not necessary in DC for it to be kidnapping. It is necessary where I live for a charge of kidnapping.
To me holding someone hostage and kidnapping someone mean different things.
I interpreted it as DW and the crew came to kidnap SS and the plan went wacky, but removal of SS from the residence not necessary in DC.

Kidnapping can be as simple as preventing them from leaving. I don't know if legal definition can differ slightly depending on state?

"Kidnapping is a class A felony in District of Columbia. According to D.C. Code § 22-2001, a person is guilty of, or of aiding or abetting in, seizing, confining, inveigling, enticing, decoying, kidnapping, abducting, concealing, or carrying away any individual, and holding or detaining, or with the intent to hold or detain, such individual for ransom or reward shall, upon conviction be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 years.

Kidnapping includes the seizing, confining, or detention of another. “The involuntary nature of the seizure and detention is the essence of the crime of kidnapping.”
Asportation is not an essential element of the kidnapping statute.[1]"

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state...istrict-of-columbia-kidnappingabduction-laws/

 

[OTPTarheel]

G

What I thought was interesting was on the first night when they were arrested ( the six of them or 5 of them lol) only two people were photographed and filmed and put on the mainstream Media news . Why were the others never publicized and on the mainstream media at that point in time? After the fact, we know that they were not arrested but at that time when it was breaking news why were they not caught on film.

I guess this is a rhetorical question because obviously LE must have *purposely* let the other two be photographed/filmed by placing them outside for a length of time.

But whyyyyyy ?

:moo:

I, too, find that bizarre. I am a videographer, and I know whoever was there shot video of all of them, cause that is what you do. Shoot the scene and the individuals.Why hasn't it surfaced??? Surely there were people walking in that area who saw the commotion and could have taken video with their cell phones and uploaded immediately to WTOP or WUSA?
Maybe they wanted to use photos of them in lineups for in other crimes. IDK. Baffled.

There was a burglary at 29XX Connecticut Avenue that same day...the S family and V were murdered. 7/10 of a mile away according to mapquest.

 

[OTPTarheel]

Y

Kidnapping can be as simple as preventing them from leaving. I don't know if legal definition can differ slightly depending on state?

"Kidnapping is a class A felony in District of Columbia. According to D.C. Code § 22-2001, a person is guilty of, or of aiding or abetting in, seizing, confining, inveigling, enticing, decoying, kidnapping, abducting, concealing, or carrying away any individual, and holding or detaining, or with the intent to hold or detain, such individual for ransom or reward shall, upon conviction be punished by imprisonment for not more than 30 years.

Kidnapping includes the seizing, confining, or detention of another. “The involuntary nature of the seizure and detention is the essence of the crime of kidnapping.”
Asportation is not an essential element of the kidnapping statute.[1]"

http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/state...istrict-of-columbia-kidnappingabduction-laws/

In some jurisdictions, kidnapping by asportation is one of the methods by which the offense may be established. In this regard, some state kidnapping statutes require proof of an unlawful act taking one of several alternative forms, including seizure, confinement, kidnapping, abduction, or carrying away. In some states, to prove the crime of kidnapping the prosecution must prove that a person was unlawfully moved, by the use of physical force or fear, the movement was without the person’s consent, and the movement of the person was for a substantial distance.

BBM

- See more at: http://kidnapping.uslegal.com/eleme...tation-or-carrying-away/#sthash.ni8hpeqS.dpuf

 

[BondGirl]

G

I, too, find that bizarre. I am a videographer, and I know whoever was there shot video of all of them, cause that is what you do. Shoot the scene and the individuals.Why hasn't it surfaced??? Surely there were people walking in that area who saw the commotion and could have taken video with their cell phones and uploaded immediately to WTOP or WUSA?
Maybe they wanted to use photos of them in lineups for in other crimes. IDK. Baffled.

There was a burglary at 29XX Connecticut Avenue that same day...the S family and V were murdered. 7/10 of a mile away according to mapquest.

Wasn't it late at night and vehicles moved to surround and do takedown? I bet the photos are from LE. I doubt there was time for news trucks, reporters to get there before they were taken in. This is a bad part of town. Not like there'd be foot traffic from restaurants and bars. LE selected this spot because it was pretty desolate and didn't want to risk them getting to busier areas of the city and takedown involving innocent bystanders.

There are photos from a takedown of a terrorist at the U.S. Capitol parking garage. I think FBI films photographs these events as often the show takedown in action--no time for bystanders to film or reporters to get there. Then the release the images to the media.

 

[Willow Knight]

I doubt JW has a lot of cash lying around for a new car, laptop and iphone! JMO

I understood the post to mean that if JW lost his car, laptop, and phone those can be replaced. A reputation cannot.

 

[BondGirl]

I understood the post to mean that if JW lost his car, laptop, and phone those can be replaced. A reputation cannot.

Yes of course! But a pain in the butt if you're innocent nonetheless!

 

[rkf]

He can replace his laptop/cell/car. But he will never get back his good name. Google his name now and you get all kinds of nefarious and horrid accusations popping up. That is what is really sad, if it turns out he was not involved.

If he's not involved, that will become clear. I think his "bad name" is a direct result of him lying to LE when his truthful cooperation could have helped track down the people who tortured and murdered four people - one of them a ten year-old boy who was burned alive. If LE clears him of involvement, I won't continue to suspect him. He chose to lie, to cover his a$$ for whatever reason. That was more important to him than helping LE catch the people who committed the crime. He has no one to blame but himself.

BTW, his lying is a character trait, not a one-time thing. I'm sure people close to him have been aware of this behavior for quite some time.

 

[rkf]

Agree. This is what we preach to kids all day long.......what you post follows you FOREVER. For all intents and purposes, he is a kid. Frankly, lots of youth today are arrogant. Having said that, there are grown adults who have lost their jobs over social media. JW's social medial pales in comparison to some of that.


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How old does someone have to be, to be responsible for his/her behavior? I believe at 28, the prefrontal cortex is fully developed. He's old enough to run for the U.S. House of Representatives, and has been for a few years. He can vote, buy a house, marry, have children...

I have a 25 year-old son. He is not fully baked, but then neither am I. If he behaved the way JW has on SM and lied to LE about a crime - or anything! - I would be horrified. If my 15 year-old son acted like that, it would be more age-appropriate, but still completely unacceptable. I expect my kids to have respect for other people. By that I mean, they should not use other people to get ahead; they should not overstep others' personal boundaries; they should value other people's privacy as they value their own - everybody should get to decide how much of their lives they want to share, not have it decided for them; they should not lie; they should not steal; they should not play with other peoples' stuff without asking first.

We all make mistakes. We might make more when we're younger, because we're less experienced and more adventuresome. But that doesn't mean we aren't fully responsible for the consequences of our actions. I think JW would have benefitted from being called on his behavior when he was younger and it was less ingrained. Now, he's one of countless young adults, cutting corners, fudging facts and wallowing in narcissistic entropy.

He's old enough to know better. That he apparently doesn't isn't a function of his age, but of his character.

 

[blessedlife]

I understood the post to mean that if JW lost his car, laptop, and phone those can be replaced. A reputation cannot.

I get what you're saying but what is the damage to his reputation if he's actually a victim? This "kid" has lost a lot of ground in his life because of this nightmare. I honestly don't see anything wrong with his social media posts prior to this tragedy. He was a young guy, ambitious about what he was doing, hustling to make that happen. As an entrepreneur myself, you have to hustle and surround yourself with people who "have hustled". Nothing wrong with that.....that's what you're "supposed" to do and I don't fault him one bit for that hustle. I admire it.. He's not granted interviews, posted any social media since this tragedy and has vanished from the face of the earth by all accounts. He has disappeared. I believe it's because he's horrified, and while some may disagree....I believe he's a victim of DW but he's still breathing. This reminds me of Richard Jewell and how the media AND law enforcement can jump and I don't blame them sometimes. But G&$$@it,when LE puts out information and they were wrong.....step up and say so. That's why lawsuits happen......it's not "what" happened it's about what you as LE did once they knew they were wrong. Clear this kid publicly and move on.


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[FelicityLemon]

Richard Jewell's ordeal still breaks my heart.

 

[blessedlife]

How old does someone have to be, to be responsible for his/her behavior? I believe at 28, the prefrontal cortex is fully developed. He's old enough to run for the U.S. House of Representatives, and has been for a few years. He can vote, buy a house, marry, have children...

I have a 25 year-old son. He is not fully baked, but then neither am I. If he behaved the way JW has on SM and lied to LE about a crime - or anything! - I would be horrified. If my 15 year-old son acted like that, it would be more age-appropriate, but still completely unacceptable. I expect my kids to have respect for other people. By that I mean, they should not use other people to get ahead; they should not overstep others' personal boundaries; they should value other people's privacy as they value their own - everybody should get to decide how much of their lives they want to share, not have it decided for them; they should not lie; they should not steal; they should not play with other peoples' stuff without asking first.

We all make mistakes. We might make more when we're younger, because we're less experienced and more adventuresome. But that doesn't mean we aren't fully responsible for the consequences of our actions. I think JW would have benefitted from being called on his behavior when he was younger and it was less ingrained. Now, he's one of countless young adults, cutting corners, fudging facts and wallowing in narcissistic entropy.

He's old enough to know better. That he apparently doesn't isn't a function of his age, but of his character.

I get it, but "what" behavior??? Know better about what? If not for the murders, what is the problem with JW? If not for the murders how is he so different than most of his generation?


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[blessedlife]

Richard Jewell's ordeal still breaks my heart.

[emoji26] absolutely..


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[rkf]

I get it, but "what" behavior??? Know better about what? If not for the murders, what is the problem with JW? If not for the murders how is he so different than most of his generation?


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The lying. JW's lies are documented from before the crime, so it's not new. It's one thing to pretend you're younger than you are, or say you played a sport at a school you didn't attend. It's another to lie to LE when your boss has been brutally murdered in a home invasion. If his SM lies are just "self-promotion", he should know when to turn that off and give straight answers.

I know lots of people in their 20s. I know a few who are always "working the system", whatever that system may be. But most of them are decent, hard-working, generous and honest people - pleasures to know. I think narcissistic behavior is becoming more prevalent and in some circles, more accepted. But, IMO it's a disservice to young people to say that most of them share JW's lack of discretion and ethics.

 

[BellaVita]

Agree. This is what we preach to kids all day long.......what you post follows you FOREVER. For all intents and purposes, he is a kid. Frankly, lots of youth today are arrogant. Having said that, there are grown adults who have lost their jobs over social media. JW's social medial pales in comparison to some of that.


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I am still not understanding the characterization of a 28 year old man as a "kid".

 

[rkf]

I am still not understanding the characterization of a 28 year old man as a "kid".

Exactly. DW is 34. Is he a kid? I don't think so.

 

[BellaVita]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gueroa-murdered-Daron-Wint-Arrested-15/page19

Wriiten by rkf yesterday. For me, puts into a nutshell what the problem is in this picture.

Lying IS a huge character flaw. Excusing this in one's personal life is risky. IMO.

 

[OTPTarheel]

Wasn't it late at night and vehicles moved to surround and do takedown? I bet the photos are from LE. I doubt there was time for news trucks, reporters to get there before they were taken in. This is a bad part of town. Not like there'd be foot traffic from restaurants and bars. LE selected this spot because it was pretty desolate and didn't want to risk them getting to busier areas of the city and takedown involving innocent bystanders.

There are photos from a takedown of a terrorist at the U.S. Capitol parking garage. I think FBI films photographs these events as often the show takedown in action--no time for bystanders to film or reporters to get there. Then the release the images to the media.

I went back and found
"Photos" from WJLA(1 frame images taken from video), and some from Brian Woolston who is either a freelancer and sold photos to the Daily Mail or was in the area...

And in this video report from the Howard Johnson motel the reporter states DDDW was arrested with machete and BB gun outside of AIW. Don't remember that BB gun being mentioned, but I don't have time to watch all of the MSM. My husband doesn't understand how those Nancy Drew books got me started...
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/201...uple-murder-suspects-home-in-lanham/27705437/

 

[BondGirl]

I am still not understanding the characterization of a 28 year old man as a "kid".

Exactly JW is a "grown adult".