DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[MyBelle]

From MSM:
"...four decedents were killed ..."
Post below states: "It [US Attorney] does not say only Wint killed him." <-- Post's sentence is accurate, but above red-ded phrase (in passive voice, terminology?) does not refer to anyone's action in killing Mr S. Here, as in many other instances, MSM is ambiguous, vague or misleading.

From ct-filed complaint of May 22:
"Darron Dellon Dennis Wint, ...while armed with a unknown object, ...killed Savvas Savopoulos by striking and stabbing him ...causing injuries from which Savvas Savopoulos died..." Refers only to DDW actions in killing Mr S; does not refer to any others' actions in killing Mr S.

^ This discrepancy is why, after charging documents, complaints, search warrants etc, are available to copy & paste, then quoting ct-filed docs rather than repeating or relying on reporter's interp of what docs say seems a better practice. JMO. Why quote MSM - to summarize or interp (or misinterp?) when ct-filed docs themselves are available?
Exceptions? Yes, for ex, when ct-filed affidavit quotes Witness A describing arrested person B shooting decedent, in which case, if Witness C later recounts to MSM how C saw unarrested person D shoot the decedent. IOW, a diff source re same info and/or MSM info dated after ct-filed doc.
JM2cts, could be all wrong.


bbm sbm

I'm not sure what point exactly you are trying to make because the media has correctly reported the charging documents against Wint filed by Assistant USA, Ragsdale:

"Your affiant believes all four decedents were held captive by Mr. Wint and others until the $40,000 forty thousand was delivered to the Savoloupos residence by W-1. After the money was delivered the four decedents were killed. The defendant is not an employee of Mr. Savopoulos and there was no legitimate reason for him to be present in their home at anytime.

Based on your affiant's knowledge and experience, and his observation of this crime scene, your affiant believes that the crimes described in this affidavit required the presences and assistance of more than one person.

The documents were submitted to the court by Acting U.S. Attorney Vincent Cohen, Jr. by Jeffrey R. Ragsdale, Assistant United States Attorney.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/local/charging-papers-against-daron-wint/1558/

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you!

It looks like the snipers were only charged in state courts, per wiki. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks#Criminal_prosecutions. Which of course is always right. Lol. ;-)

The Starbucks case I'm still googling, but it looks like it was tried federally under RICO, as Cooper ran an organized robbery gang... or at least that's how they justified moving it. Off to google more...

Thanks again!

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Only one of the snipers' victims was from D.C. and the Attorney General moved jurisdiction from Maryland to Virginia because VA has the death penalty. I think public sentiment was likely the driving factor in his decision and it will be a driving factor in this case because of the heinous nature of the crimes.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The high profile mass murdereds get federal charges. The beltway snipers and Starbucks killers were the big ones of the last decade or so.

High profile mass murders in the D.C. metro do get the attention of the Attorney General and I have no problem with that at all.

JMO

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Only one of the snipers' victims was from D.C. and the Attorney General moved jurisdiction from Maryland to Virginia because VA has the death penalty. I think public sentiment was likely the driving factor in his decision and it will be a driving factor in this case because of the heinous nature of the crimes.

JMO

They were charged and tried in both MD and VA.

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[MyBelle]

They were charged and tried in both MD and VA.

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Yes but AG Ashcroft made sure it was first in VA because it has the death penalty and MD does not. Malvo wasn't eligible for the d.p. but his cohort has been executed.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-11-10-sniper_N.htm

JMO

Attorney General John Ashcroft and the Bush administration managed to send the trials of the Washington, D.C.-area sniper suspects John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo to Virginia--an act that will allow the death penalty in both cases. - See more at: http://nodeathpenalty.org/new_aboli...ls-sniper-suspects-moved#sthash.3w2rJVGf.dpuf

 

[al66pine]

The Complaint was filed 19 May. Attached to it was the Supporting Document. Page 8 of the Affidavit in Support of an Arrest Warrant states "your affiant believes that the crimes described in this arrest warrant required the presence and assistance of more than one person.&#8221;

Agreeing - May 19th ct-filed doc states above re 'crimes described in this arrest warrant' bbm. (I may be missing it in the affidavit, but not seeing any crime other than homicide specified in the affidavit. Just seeing info about fire and about ppl being held captive. Maybe missed complaint ref's to arson, kidnapping too. IDK).

However May 22 complaint* re Mr S' homicide, states Wint "killed Savvas Savopoulos him by striking and stabbing him" etc.

IIUC, the homicide charged vs DDW in the complaint is what prosecution must prove.
IIUC, later as evd is developed, prosecutor can also bring crim charges against others, some of whom may be known now or who may be discovered later.

Re affidavit in support of May 19 complaint, not sure if it can be amended or if it can be withdrawn and a new version filed.
Not sure where that leaves us. Maybe a crim law wizard will chime in.
JMcts, could be all wrong.

____________________________________________________
* May 22 Complaint,page 2/4: "Darron Dellon Dennis Wint, within the District of Columbia, while armed with a unknown object,in perpetrating and attempting to perpetrate the crime of kidnapping killed SavvasSavopoulos by striking and stabbing him with an unknownobject on or about May 14, 2015, therebycausing injuries from which Savvas Savopoulos died on or about May 14, 2015.(First Degree Murder While Armed - Felony Murder, in violation of 22 D.C. Code,Sections 2101, 4502 (2001 ed.)."bbm
In ^ space for co-defendants, none is listed.

 

[AmazonianAbroad]

The high profile mass murdereds get federal charges. The beltway snipers and Starbucks killers were the big ones of the last decade or so.

There were federal charges, too. Where the first trial was to be held was a contentious debate.

 

[MyBelle]

There were federal charges, too. Where the first trial was to be held was a contentious debate.

I agree. The death penalty is a very political issue and is highly debated.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Agreeing - May 19th ct-filed doc states above re 'crimes described in this arrest warrant' bbm. (I may be missing it in the affidavit, but not seeing any crime other than homicide specified in the afidavit. Just seeing info about the fire and about ppl being held captive.)

However May 22 complaint* re Mr S' homicide, states Wint "killed Savvas Savopoulos him by striking and stabbing him" etc.

IIUC, the homicide charged vs DDW in the complaint is what prosecution must prove.
IIUC, later as evd is developed, prosecutor can also bring crim charges against others, some of whom may be known now
or who may be discovered later.

Re affidavit in support of May 19 complaint, not sure if it can be amended or if it can be withdrawn and a new version filed.
Not sure where that leaves us. Maybe a crim law wizard will chime in.
JMcts, could be all wrong.



______________________________________________________________________________________________
* May 22 Complaint,page 2/4: "Darron Dellon Dennis Wint, within the District of Columbia, while armed with a unknown object,in perpetrating and attempting to perpetrate the crime ofkidnapping killed SavvasSavopoulos by striking and stabbing him with an unknownobject on or about May 14, 2015, therebycausing injuries from which Savvas Savopoulos died on or about May 14, 2015.(First Degree Murder While Armed - Felony Murder, in violation of 22 D.C. Code,Sections 2101, 4502 (2001 ed.)."bbm
In ^ space for co-defendants, none is listed.

The purpose of the complaint was to ensure the arrest of Wint and that he would be held without bail. They only included enough to meet that goal and they succeeded. They aren't about to tell the court there is evidence somebody else killed SS. Additional charges can always be added later. I don't know how Wint will be able to successfully defend the felony murder charge IF SS' blood is on his shoe and I believe it is. I think his only chance is to cut a deal and try to get the d.p. off the table in exchange for naming his co-conspirators. If the prosecutor is unwilling to cut any deal, that's Wint's unsolvable problem and his attorney isn't going to have much, if anything, to work with.

JMO

 

[al66pine]

High profile mass murders in the D.C. metro do get the attention of the Attorney General and I have no problem with that at all. JMO

Agreeing - me neither, no prob w that ^.

BTW, some interesting info about Wash DC crime gen'ly -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Washington,_D.C.

 

[BellaVita]

RSBM Reference to JW



My guess is protective custody or self protected absence. I give him a lot of respect for his decision to remain out of public view. Doubt if he could have ever imagined what was going on the in SS home. He probably cared for this family, had a happy and eager attitude. Somewhere deep inside me, I feel Mr SS liked him, Mr SS gave him a sweet job that allowed JW to enjoy his passion.

BBM: If I was caught in so many lies surrounding the murders of 4 innocent people, I would be dying of embarrassment and wouldn't be showing my face anywhere. If his absence from public view is voluntary it is because it is a self-serving move at this point in time. IMO.

 

[BellaVita]

But has she slaughtered any families over it? Her boss fired her---do you think she might kill his family in retaliation?

eta: Not trying to be flip- just saying it is a long way from being deceitful and arrogant to being a mass murderer

The one in my family-would not put anything past her though she's not done anything of the sort as far as I know. I wonder if anybody thought CA would kill Caylee? So many more examples. Another that comes to mind is the guy in Utah quite a few years back. He lied and lied to his wife about his career. They were supposed to move across country for a job that didn't even exist. And when he was about to be found out, he killed her.

 

[Skigirl]

I am curious about the "ticking clock" that some people have mentioned. It sounds like one reason there may not be more arrests is that, if LE arrests people based on this case, as opposed to warrants for other things, the clock starts ticking to a speedy trial, so, to your point, they want to make sure they take enough time to gather as much evidence as possible to create an airtight case for trial before making an arrest.

I don't really have a reference point to know how unusual it is to make additional arrests in a case after 7 weeks post-crime date. I know some others firmly believe it's an open and closed case due to no more arrests at this point. They must have a reference point. I am curious if it is truly that black and white or if something else (ticking clock) could be at play.


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Once someone is arrested, they have a right to a speedy trial. This length of time between the crimes and now (even longer) without an arrest (except Wint) is not unusual even when LE has a very good idea of who is guilty. IMHO, they already have enough on Wint, and he was dangerous enough, AND a flight risk so they brought him in right away. Others may not be as much of a concern and/or there may be less evidence so there may be an attempt to gather more. We've been admonished to stay on-topic, but there are numerous examples upthread of cases in which the time between crime/when the person came under suspicion and arrest is much longer than 7-8 weeks. In fact, I would venture a guess that it usually takes even longer than this to make an arrest in cases that don't involve a family member (e.g., husband killing wife). Thus, some of us believe that the length of time alone isn't evidence of a single perpetrator.

 

[Skigirl]

As more time passes, it concerns me that no more arrests have been made. If LE is so certain that more people are involved, they are keeping the investigation close to the vest.

Could this be gang related and therefore requires a deeper investigation which has led LE into other issues? Another thought is that with the many jurisdictions involved, DC, VA, MD, more time will be needed in getting cooperation flowing between all of the states.

I just don't want to see this horrendous case drag on and Wint is the only one arrested and then only charged with SS's murder.

I don't think we we can necessarily assume that only one person is in custody. There may be others who were arrested for this or other crimes and are in custody. We are restricted by the TOS as to who we can discuss, and the police aren't necessarily announcing every action they've taken.

 

[jjenny]

I don't think we we can necessarily assume that only one person is in custody. There may be others who were arrested for this or other crimes and are in custody. We are restricted by the TOS as to who we can discuss, and the police aren't necessarily announcing every action they've taken.

Since when are secret arrests allowed in the US?

 

[jjenny]

The Complaint was filed 19 May. Attached to it was the Supporting Document. Page 8 of the Affidavit in Support of an Arrest Warrant states "your affiant believes that the crimes described in this arrest warrant required the presence and assistance of more than one person.”

You can believe something that later turned out to be incorrect.

 

[jjenny]

Him leaving dna on pizza while setting fire to the house tells me that he wasn't alone. He just didn't share pizza with his coherts. Lol.

But seriously. If this house is near joe bidens main home; Than the d.a will be pressured to get it right .

Dot your i's and cross your t's. Now dw is a soldier while facing life even if he snitches. So he will not talk. Jmo.

The prosecution is on their own for the moment. Jmo

I don't understand how him leaving DNA on pizza suggests he wasn't alone? If you are suggesting he was leaving his DNA on pizza while simultaneously setting fire to the house, that's not correct. Pizza was ordered on Wednesday, fire was set on Thursday. So he had ample time to eat his pizza and set fire to the house all by himself. If they found anybody else DNA on pizza, why hasn't this anybody been arrested by now?

 

[TexMex]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/20...n-dnt-lead.cnn


Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko

"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "


IMO after over seven weeks since the crime, that other evidence does not exist.

 

[atthelake]

Since when are secret arrests allowed in the US?

Who said secret arrests ? Police not announcing where they are in the investigation doesn't equal secret. :moo:

 

[jjenny]

Who said they were secret?

If they are not secret, please tell me who they are and what are they charged with?