DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[al66pine]

"Originally Posted by Willow Knight May I ask why it must be proved that he killed all four? Thanks."

Because the underlying felony is a weapon so they must tie him to the weapon. Not all were killed by the same weapon, imo.
Wint was initially charged with felony murder while armed for the death of SS. We know a bloody ball bat was found and we know SS had been struck in the head. But this evidence alone is not going to get him convicted of all four deaths, imo, because other weapons were used.... JMO....

sbm

Having difficulty following ^.
MyBelle, are you saying to convict DDW for killing Mr S per current chg, that prosecutor has to prove he called all four ppl?
Or are you saying something else? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. Thx in adv.

ETA: Can anyone clarify the post or MB's comment?

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think JW's mental / life state is much more of a motive than DW's mental /life state. For DW, i feel like this was just another day in the life but perhaps a burglary went awry. For JW, things had come to a head.

There are tons of decent people doing life in prison because they thought the plan was to be in and out and no one gets hurt. They rarely suspect that a co perpetrator will fly off the handle.

Some people have personal docs or deeds in safe or currency such as bonds that can't be cashed by others. Not all safes have cash filled up to the top.

So maybe a simple plan was not doable once it was deemed that alot of cash was not in the house.

 

[kammiemc]

I think JW's mental / life state is much more of a motive than DW's mental /life state. For DW, i feel like this was just another day in the life but perhaps a burglary went awry. For JW, things had come to a head.

I have to agree. Stealing from employers is something that happens every day. It is not unusual. The person doesn't have be evil, just desperate and confident enough that they can pull it off.

So, how desperate does someone have to be to allow themselves to starting thinking about a plan to steal from their rich employer? For JW, would the idea of potentially having to cancel upcoming race trips be enough to push him over the edge to steal money from SS? He could create a reality for himself that would make it harmless, guiltless, where he was just a guy doing his driver job. He wouldn't have to think of himself as one of the bad guys, because he wasn't like them. In fact, if all went accordingly, he was going to go on to be a famous race car driver.

Maybe, in his own mind, he would be able to bury the facts of his involvement under the much more attractive vision of his fame and wealth--imagine, he would no longer be SS's driver, he'd be more like a peer. He might be able to keep his eye on the prize and do what he needed to do. This is not a stretch to me.

At some point, things went awry, because his partners were madmen.

 

[Bootsctr]

There are tons of decent people doing life in prison because they thought the plan was to be in and out and no one gets hurt. They rarely suspect that a co perpetrator will fly off the handle.

Some people have personal docs or deeds in safe or currency such as bonds that can't be cashed by others. Not all safes have cash filled up to the top.

So maybe a simple plan was not doable once it was deemed that alot of cash was not in the house.

I think greed was the undoing in this plan. Not one, but two safes. Surely more than deeds, bonds and personal docs. I'm thinking more cash, perhaps gold coins, and jewelry. Maybe SS was lured home because Amy couldn't recall the safe combinations. They probably would have been murdered at the point Wint cleaned out the safes, but SS told him he could get him 40,000 cash if he wouldn't kill them and give him some time to get the money together. Was Wint only after cash and jewelry? No TV's or DVR's or stereo equipment or sword collection?

How did Wint get to the house? Bus? Walk? Catch a ride with partner in crime?

I believe Wint saw he had hit the mother load and that was his undoing.

 

[1&2&3]

As more time passes, it concerns me that no more arrests have been made. If LE is so certain that more people are involved, they are keeping the investigation close to the vest.

Could this be gang related and therefore requires a deeper investigation which has led LE into other issues? Another thought is that with the many jurisdictions involved, DC, VA, MD, more time will be needed in getting cooperation flowing between all of the states.

I just don't want to see this horrendous case drag on and Wint is the only one arrested and then only charged with SS's murder.

 

[Bootsctr]

As more time passes, it concerns me that no more arrests have been made. If LE is so certain that more people are involved, they are keeping the investigation close to the vest.

Could this be gang related and therefore requires a deeper investigation which has led LE into other issues? Another thought is that with the many jurisdictions involved, DC, VA, MD, more time will be needed in getting cooperation flowing between all of the states.

I just don't want to see this horrendous case drag on and Wint is the only one arrested and then only charged with SS's murder.

I agree with your line of thinking. Plus, we have a suspect who knows how to work the system. I hope to God that LE has a lead to something that will put a stop to this slug's antics.

 

[Sparky]

Let's please stay on topic. This isn't the Scott Peterson or Casey Anthony thread. We have threads for them elsewhere. :tyou:

 

[MyBelle]

"Originally Posted by Willow Knight May I ask why it must be proved that he killed all four? Thanks."

sbm

Having difficulty following ^.
MyBelle, are you saying to convict DDW for killing Mr S per current chg, that prosecutor has to prove he called all four ppl?
Or are you saying something else? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious. Thx in adv.

Actually, my point is just the opposite. The underlying charge against Wint is that he was armed when he murdered SS. A ball bat with blood was found at the scene. I don't know for certain whose blood was on Wint's shoe but I'm assuming it is SS'. The others were killed with a different weapon. It is not a slam dunk that Wint will be convicted of 4 counts of murder, imo. He hasn't been charged with other the crimes such as kidnapping, extortion, torture etc.

The prosecutor persuaded a Judge to hold Wint without bail on the premise that Wint and others committed the murders after the $40,000 was delivered. The prosecutor stated this as a fact and so he can't just change it to only Wint was involved. No way is it believable that Wint acted alone. The public should be very concerned there are others out there roaming free. I know I am.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I have to agree. Stealing from employers is something that happens every day. It is not unusual. The person doesn't have be evil, just desperate and confident enough that they can pull it off.

So, how desperate does someone have to be to allow themselves to starting thinking about a plan to steal from their rich employer? For JW, would the idea of potentially having to cancel upcoming race trips be enough to push him over the edge to steal money from SS? He could create a reality for himself that would make it harmless, guiltless, where he was just a guy doing his driver job. He wouldn't have to think of himself as one of the bad guys, because he wasn't like them. In fact, if all went accordingly, he was going to go on to be a famous race car driver.

Maybe, in his own mind, he would be able to bury the facts of his involvement under the much more attractive vision of his fame and wealth--imagine, he would no longer be SS's driver, he'd be more like a peer. He might be able to keep his eye on the prize and do what he needed to do. This is not a stretch to me.

At some point, things went awry, because his partners were madmen.

BBM. If this is indeed JW's mindset, it IS the mindset of a madman.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

As more time passes, it concerns me that no more arrests have been made. If LE is so certain that more people are involved, they are keeping the investigation close to the vest.

Could this be gang related and therefore requires a deeper investigation which has led LE into other issues? Another thought is that with the many jurisdictions involved, DC, VA, MD, more time will be needed in getting cooperation flowing between all of the states.

I just don't want to see this horrendous case drag on and Wint is the only one arrested and then only charged with SS's murder.

I think the complexity of the crime as well as the number of suspects is why the investigation is taking so long. I doubt there are any obstacles caused by jurisdiction at this point because the US Attorney is in the lead.

JMO

 

[rkf]

Because the underlying felony is a weapon so they must tie him to the weapon. Not all were killed by the same weapon, imo.

Wint was initially charged with felony murder while armed for the death of SS. We know a bloody ball bat was found and we know SS had been struck in the head. But this evidence alone is not going to get him convicted of all four deaths, imo, because other weapons were used.

I do not subscribe to the theory that nobody else was involved because no more arrests have been made. The prosecutor has already told the court in Wint's case that others were involved.

JMO

In the affidavit, prosecutors said they believe "all four decedents were held captive by Mr. Wint and others until the $40,000 was delivered to the Savopoulos's residence by [the witness]. After the money was delivered the four decedents were killed," the report states.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dc-mansion-murders-required-killer-affidavit/story?id=31241673

I believe the arson also makes it a felony.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think the complexity of the crime as well as the number of suspects is why the investigation is taking so long. I doubt there are any obstacles caused by jurisdiction at this point because the US Attorney is in the lead.

JMO

Maybe the fire was set by someone else. Since dw dna was on the pizza tells me that out of all this quick in the heat of the moment thinking. He never thought to get rid of pizza crust but smart enough to get 40 large delivered while having family friends employees and others to not think anything was amiss with the family.

 

[rkf]

Actually, my point is just the opposite. The underlying charge against Wint is that he was armed when he murdered SS. A ball bat with blood was found at the scene. I don't know for certain whose blood was on Wint's shoe but I'm assuming it is SS'. The others were killed with a different weapon. It is not a slam dunk that Wint will be convicted of 4 counts of murder, imo. He hasn't been charged with other the crimes such as kidnapping, extortion, torture etc.

The prosecutor persuaded a Judge to hold Wint without bail on the premise that Wint and others committed the murders after the $40,000 was delivered. The prosecutor stated this as a fact and so he can't just change it to only Wint was involved. No way is it believable that Wint acted alone. The public should be very concerned there are others out there roaming free. I know I am.

JMO

If the investigation leads them to believe DW acted alone, I think the prosecution can change their theory of the crime for trial. I agree that someone else is probably involved, which is one reason I think they're holding off on the rest of the charges. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

If the investigation leads them to believe DW acted alone, I think the prosecution can change their theory of the crime for trial. I agree that someone else is probably involved, which is one reason I think they're holding off on the rest of the charges. JMO

The ones they let go did not have warrants and they probably told similar stories to how they became part of the convoy. So i truly think that they wasn't involved but knew something was amist after.

But they don't deserve to be tried just because of riding in the convoy days later. A jury would find them guilty with no evidence at all.

These were joe bidens neighbors for crying out loud. Or almost neighbors. i think they lived near each other.

So the d.a need to take their time before just throwing charges at anyone. Jmo

 

[Bootsctr]

Wint seems to be the whole package to me - fire bug, slasher, bat wielder and strangler.

As far as the group he was traveling with - birds of a feather. If Wint had help on the inside controlling the others, it was one of those dirty birds that helped.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If the investigation leads them to believe DW acted alone, I think the prosecution can change their theory of the crime for trial. I agree that someone else is probably involved, which is one reason I think they're holding off on the rest of the charges. JMO

I continue to believe that Wint was the only one inside the home with the family, and he, and he alone did these four murders. There is no rush to add more charges. He certainly isn't going anywhere. But lets say for argument sake someone else was with him and did some of the murders then by law he would be equally guilty and he would still be charged with all four murders anyway. In the end he will be charged with all four murders. IMO

The police never said for sure he had help. It was always subjective/possibility, and never a firm statement of 'we have evidence that proves he did not do these crimes alone.' etc.

I have no idea what the DAs theory will be when it comes to motive. I suspect they will use the same motive theory that other DAs have used when it comes to home invader/turned murderer, and it will be robbery and the witnesses were murdered to silence them where they would be unable to tell what and who had done this to them. It should be pretty simple and straight forward. Cases nor motives/theories are never as complex as others see them to be before the trial is held. Occam's Razor usually is spot on and I think it will apply in this case as well.

He certainly didn't have to have help to do this. Other cases in the past shows us how easily it is to contain and murder multiple people. The control the sole murderer has is they rule by fear/threats, and intimidation using one of the victims to make the others comply to their every demand. The victims will even comply when the suspect ties them up where they are restrained. Those not restrained have a purpose to the offender and they do what the suspect says hoping that he/she will not harm the other victims who have been bound.

I don't expect to see anymore arrests in this case unless it is someone arrested for aiding and abetting after the murders had already happened.

But we shall see.

IMO

 

[1&2&3]

I think the complexity of the crime as well as the number of suspects is why the investigation is taking so long. I doubt there are any obstacles caused by jurisdiction at this point because the US Attorney is in the lead.

JMO

Thank you. I missed that the US Attorney is the lead. That in itself should be a good thing with no missed trails.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thanks for keeping us grounded Ocean Blue Eyes! I learned a lot by reading your posts on the Dermond's thread. A calm and cool head will always prevail! I'm going with you and Occam's Razor - Wint acted alone.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I agree with you 100%. I in no way think that there is a 1:1 correspondence between intelligence and grammar skills. I do a ton of writing for work, and I sometimes don't see my typos even with close proofreading because our brains are primed to "see" what we intend to write which overrides what is actually on the paper or screen (and then I cringe when I look at what I have written a few months later and the typo jumps off of the page!).

We all have strengths and weaknesses. IMO, one of the most functional ways to get through life is to recognize one's own strengths and weaknesses, harness the strengths, and use compensatory mechanisms to work on or around the weaknesses.

The part that makes me go :banghead: is seeing a piece of writing that was clearly intended to support career advancement that was posted without the writer taking some sort of action to clean up the wording and grammar. That, and the potential psychological implications of the 1st person/3rd person mash-up.

And I with you: drives me NUTS to see professional writing with errors. It should never happen regardless of skill level. It's very difficult to proofread your own work!! First hand knowledge here, lol! As professionals back in the dark ages, we were obligated to use at least one other pair of eyes to proofread.

My skills have slacked off in favor of my enthusiasm to get my thoughts out of my head in something I hope will be understood, LOL! However, while in professional mode/ being paid for my work - I'm anal about perfection.

Posting on the internet is pleasurable for me, and I try to turn off the anal button. If I don't, I won't get anything posted because I'd be too stresssed about making errors or causing misunderstandings.

http://consc.net/notes/first-third.html

 

[kammiemc]

The ones they let go did not have warrants and they probably told similar stories to how they became part of the convoy. So i truly think that they wasn't involved but knew something was amist after.

But they don't deserve to be tried just because of riding in the convoy days later. A jury would find them guilty with no evidence at all.

These were joe bidens neighbors for crying out loud. Or almost neighbors. i think they lived near each other.

So the d.a need to take their time before just throwing charges at anyone. Jmo

I am curious about the "ticking clock" that some people have mentioned. It sounds like one reason there may not be more arrests is that, if LE arrests people based on this case, as opposed to warrants for other things, the clock starts ticking to a speedy trial, so, to your point, they want to make sure they take enough time to gather as much evidence as possible to create an airtight case for trial before making an arrest.

I don't really have a reference point to know how unusual it is to make additional arrests in a case after 7 weeks post-crime date. I know some others firmly believe it's an open and closed case due to no more arrests at this point. They must have a reference point. I am curious if it is truly that black and white or if something else (ticking clock) could be at play.


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