DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[jbk]

I like this theory of another involved party possibly already being in custody on unrelated charges. Perhaps this is the same person who threatened to burn AIW after being fired...if this proves to be true, it seems like a very simple explanation, really, at least looking at this from the perspective of a psycopath or 2...

 

[BondGirl]

I like this theory of another involved party possibly already being in custody on unrelated charges. Perhaps this is the same person who threatened to burn AIW after being fired...if this proves to be true, it seems like a very simple explanation, really, at least looking at this from the perspective of a psycopath or 2...

I could be wrong but didn't we uncover that that cousin was already in prison when the murders occurred. Today's theory is about another DW and co person.

 

[facundo]

I don't want to be weird or anything so don't think it but is that hearing open to the public? I work downtown very very close to the courthouse.

If it's not Grand Jury it should be open. Please do us all a favor and attend. Your information should fit the LE standard for reporting here.

 

[jbk]

Oh, you could be right. I don't know really. A lot of the people we're talking about but not really talking about since we can't say their names have similar names and it gets confusing.

 

[BondGirl]

I'm not defending anything or anyone here, and people commit heinous unthinkable acts from all kinds of jealousy, but that level of sadism doesn't have to be victim specific in emotion. Rather, it's probable that there was no emotion whatsoever on the part of DW. DW's history of violence, threats and sadism supports the torturing of this child.

Now, I'm defending JW. Nowhere in JW's history is there any indication that I've seen (I've not seen everything, I'm sure) that he's violent, unreasonable, unkind, had trouble with others, threaten anyone, abuse drugs or alcohol, steal things, rob people, get arrested for anything, etc. If he has anything to do with this, it would have seem to be completely out of the blue. I know there is a first time for all kinds of things, but there's usually some indication of mental or emotional disturbance. People have posted that nobody in SM is coming out to defend him, but I haven't seen any of the usual nutters who come out of the woodwork with anything negative, either.

Just saying that I think PS was used as a tool / leverage to manipulate the others. If DW is a psychopath - it seems like he is- aren't they usually pretty intelligent? He would have figured that out that normal parents would and do lay down their lives for their children with zero hesitation, and someone torturing your child would make you do anything to stop it.

It feels so hard and cold to say that a child was used as a means to an end, but it happens and it doesn't have to be personal at all. To a psychopath.

Yeah but, SS would've done anything for AS too, right? So if you ask me, there was a connection to PS. You don't see cases like this often....thankfully.

 

[jbk]

Yeah but, SS would've done anything for AS too, right? So if you ask me, there was a connection to PS. You don't see cases like this often....thankfully.

I believe yes, SS would have done anything for AS too but by controlling the child, PS, the killer(s) thereby controlled everyone else as the child was a bargaining chip not only for SS but for AS too. The killer(s) knew all the adults would do whatever they asked if they threatened/hurt PS.

 

[ohreally]

I could be wrong but didn't we uncover that that cousin was already in prison when the murders occurred. Today's theory is about another DW and co person.

I'm thinking there could be individuals in jail on unrelated charges that we have never heard of in this case. I sure hope there is some new information on the second.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I have a theory. If someone else was arrested with DW, it may have been for previous warrants. LE would arrest him for that, and still suspect that he's involved in the murders, but not publicize it. He could still be in custody for something else, and be charged for murder or accessory or conspiracy, etc. at a later date. No hurry since he's already in custody.

Allegedly. In my opinion. Spitballin'. Speculating up the wazooooo.

Yes, I think that's what is going on and why there has been ongoing confusion as to exactly how many were in the convoy. LE/DA doesn't want to get clock ticking until they're absolutely ready so they're using pre-existing warrants to hold people without formally charging them for this. For this same reason I think JW may be in custody as a material witness either voluntarily or involuntarily. LE I think is trying to drag this out as long as they can without being forced to either show their hand or letting dangerous people out on the streets. I could for instance see DW as part of a plea or LE in their public announcement saying there was a criminal ring that was responsible for multiple cases of robbery/burglary/etc, that one of S family household staff was part of this or some permutation thereof. I don't think DW was the mastermind of this, but it could be someone close to him who was and I'm still not sure if murder was part of the original plan, but of the known names so far I do think DW initiated at least the majority of the murders regardless of whether it was to plan or not...if SS broke free that might have been what set DW off as I do think it is an odd detail that the biggest threat was unbound at the time, but for whatever reason SS was unbound that does lean to being at least two perps inside to be able to dispatch of SS. I'd think if it was a one-on-one even if DW had a bat/knife that SS would have been able to fight off DW enough even if it killed him in the process that he could have incapacitated DW enough to save his family. SS may have tried fighting a perp with a knife in front of him, but then another perp came up from behind with a bat and then once SS was killed everyone else was killed as once you're down for one felony murder, there's no real difference between murdering one person and murdering four who could otherwise testify against you.

 

[BondGirl]

I believe yes, SS would have done anything for AS too but by controlling the child, PS, the killer(s) thereby controlled everyone else as the child was a bargaining chip not only for SS but for AS too. The killer(s) knew all the adults would do whatever they asked if they threatened/hurt PS.

Let's be real...AS would've been a bargaining chip too and PS wouldn't want his mom hurt. I think PS was singled out way out of proportion with what would've been required. Why is that? Imo there was a reason and connection.

 

[jbk]

Let's be real...AS would've been a bargaining chip too and PS wouldn't want his mom hurt. I think PS was singled out way out of proportion with what would've been required. Why is that? Imo there was a reason and connection.

I have no doubt you're right that PS wouldn't want his mom hurt and he does seem to have been a very brave kid. However, AS was an adult and PS was a 10 year old kid so I still see PS as more of the one that the killer(s) would use to leverage control over the adults. I do agree with you that it seems like, tragically, PS was singled out way out of proportion but I don't think there was a reason for that beyond that he was the best means the perp(s) had to control all the others, that he was likely the easiest to control, and that the killer(s) are sick, sadistic monsters. Why do I think this? basically just because it is the simplest answer and because if he was singled out for some other reason and someone who knew PS/who PS knew was involved in this, that would make it even sadder and more horrible so I hope that it's not true that someone who knew PS personally could do such horrible things/allow such horrible things to be done to him.

 

[Skigirl]

I don't want to be weird or anything so don't think it but is that hearing open to the public? I work downtown very very close to the courthouse.

I think that unless it's a closed hearing anyone can go. I would if I had time and lived nearby!

 

[Skigirl]

Oh, you could be right. I don't know really. A lot of the people we're talking about but not really talking about since we can't say their names have similar names and it gets confusing.

Not very creative in the naming department, that family

 

[SpanishInquisition]

I have no doubt you're right that PS wouldn't want his mom hurt and he does seem to have been a very brave kid. However, AS was an adult and PS was a 10 year old kid so I still see PS as more of the one that the killer(s) would use to leverage control over the adults. I do agree with you that it seems like PS was singled out way out of proportion but I don't think there was a reason for that beyond that he was the best means the perp(s) had to control all the others.

This is part of why I haven't ruled out JW (or other household staff or others connected to the family in some other personal way) as PS aside from the torture was also killed in the worst way, which there's no bargaining gained from that and would distinctly eliminate any bargaining there was. Whoever was involved had both the means and the willingness to dispatch people rather quickly and painlessly with knifes to the throat/bat to the head, but that was not done for PS and there's no reason for burning him alive. I can see why SS would have been dispatched with a baseball bat from behind if he was loose because it was necessary (and even if it wasn't, being hit from behind with a baseball bat is more painless than being set on fire), while with the two adults who were bound they got a quick knife to the throat, but the bound PS did not get the same treatment. There has to be some reason for the way PS was killed where I do think one the participants involved had something against PS in particular or children in general, which so far from DW's record he hasn't actually shown any violence towards children AFAIK (he's made threats to children try and control adults, but has no actual record of abusing a child in any way) - I could see DW taking a knife and killing PS like everyone else, but I don't see why DW would choose a special more torturous killing method for PS. It could be some party that we've never heard of until the public announcement who arranged to kill PS that way and was particularly sadistic to kids. If DW was going to set anyone on fire, I'd think he would have set SS on fire to save the worse treatment for his ex-CEO boss.

 

[facundo]

Not very creative in the naming department, that family

There must be some significance to the tradition of double consonants in given names.

 

[Skigirl]

I'm not defending anything or anyone here, and people commit heinous unthinkable acts from all kinds of jealousy, but that level of sadism doesn't have to be victim specific in emotion. Rather, it's probable that there was no emotion whatsoever on the part of DW. DW's history of violence, threats and sadism supports the torturing of this child.

Now, I'm defending JW. Nowhere in JW's history is there any indication that I've seen (I've not seen everything, I'm sure) that he's violent, unreasonable, unkind, had trouble with others, threaten anyone, abuse drugs or alcohol, steal things, rob people, get arrested for anything, etc. If he has anything to do with this, it would have seem to be completely out of the blue. I know there is a first time for all kinds of things, but there's usually some indication of mental or emotional disturbance. People have posted that nobody in SM is coming out to defend him, but I haven't seen any of the usual nutters who come out of the woodwork with anything negative, either.

Just saying that I think PS was used as a tool / leverage to manipulate the others. If DW is a psychopath - it seems like he is- aren't they usually pretty intelligent? He would have figured that out that normal parents would and do lay down their lives for their children with zero hesitation, and someone torturing your child would make you do anything to stop it.

It feels so hard and cold to say that a child was used as a means to an end, but it happens and it doesn't have to be personal at all. To a psychopath.

I guess it depends on what "usually" means. Yes, there are people who are just trouble; it starts in kindergarden and doesn't ever stop until they end up in prison. Statistically, they are probably the largest group who are incarcerated because they are impulsive and often not very bright, and just plain don't seem to care a whole lot about outward appearances or following the rules. But there are plenty of people, numerous examples, in which people who have always seemed perfectly normal and have never been caught doing anything wrong just seem to up and murder someone. Take for example, Scott Peterson. It turns out he was a total wackadoodle, but his parents-in-law completely stood by him until evidence started to surface. Take this prison guard in NY who helped two convicted murderers escape with powertools and, oh, by the way, asked them to kill her husband when they were free, because one of them made her feel special. I don't recall reading anything about any sort of indication that she was murderous. And what about the man who killed Nancy Pfister? He had been a respected physician, no violent record, yes, he had some financial problems, but so do a lot of people. Plus everyone thought he was too physically impaired to kill anybody. I mean, so many people who kill have no criminal record. And aren't there more murders between people who know each other than there are random ones? That is the thing that is so frightening to me.

 

[BellaVita]

I could be wrong but didn't we uncover that that cousin was already in prison when the murders occurred. Today's theory is about another DW and co person.

Seems like the apples are all falling off the same tree.

 

[OTPTarheel]

There must be some significance to the tradition of double consonants in given names.

DDDW's parental unit is the same.

 

[TexMex]

I believe yes, SS would have done anything for AS too but by controlling the child, PS, the killer(s) thereby controlled everyone else as the child was a bargaining chip not only for SS but for AS too. The killer(s) knew all the adults would do whatever they asked if they threatened/hurt PS.

Wint had no problem threatening violence to children

That year his father Dennis took him to court to when he 'threatened to shoot (his father)', his application for a peace order states.
Wint, who was 21 at the time, was said to have stood outside his father's home and said he would kill his father and threatened his step-mother Pamela and his eight-year-old sister.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rd-told-woman-m-good-knife.html#ixzz3eanpn3df



Wint, a failed Marine who didn't pass boot camp, also allegedly told one woman who he rowed with: 'I'm going to come over there and kill you, your daughter and your friends'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rd-told-woman-m-good-knife.html#ixzz3eaoO5vPr

 

[katydid23]

Wint had no problem threatening violence to children

That year his father Dennis took him to court to when he 'threatened to shoot (his father)', his application for a peace order states.
Wint, who was 21 at the time, was said to have stood outside his father's home and said he would kill his father and threatened his step-mother Pamela and his eight-year-old sister.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rd-told-woman-m-good-knife.html#ixzz3eanpn3df



Wint, a failed Marine who didn't pass boot camp, also allegedly told one woman who he rowed with: 'I'm going to come over there and kill you, your daughter and your friends'.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rd-told-woman-m-good-knife.html#ixzz3eaoO5vPr

Seeing the level of threats of violence that DW has in his criminal history, compared to the total lack of same in JW's past, there is no comparison. JW worked with kids for years. I have never heard of him threatening to cut one with a knife before, the way DW did with bravado.

It just seems so odd that people want to think that DW, the one with a violent criminal history, would not carry this torture out but somehow JW would because he was not coaching the kid anymore. :waitasec:

 

[BondGirl]

This is part of why I haven't ruled out JW (or other household staff or others connected to the family in some other personal way) as PS aside from the torture was also killed in the worst way, which there's no bargaining gained from that and would distinctly eliminate any bargaining there was. Whoever was involved had both the means and the willingness to dispatch people rather quickly and painlessly with knifes to the throat/bat to the head, but that was not done for PS and there's no reason for burning him alive. I can see why SS would have been dispatched with a baseball bat from behind if he was loose because it was necessary (and even if it wasn't, being hit from behind with a baseball bat is more painless than being set on fire), while with the two adults who were bound they got a quick knife to the throat, but the bound PS did not get the same treatment. There has to be some reason for the way PS was killed where I do think one the participants involved had something against PS in particular or children in general, which so far from DW's record he hasn't actually shown any violence towards children AFAIK (he's made threats to children try and control adults, but has no actual record of abusing a child in any way) - I could see DW taking a knife and killing PS like everyone else, but I don't see why DW would choose a special more torturous killing method for PS. It could be some party that we've never heard of until the public announcement who arranged to kill PS that way and was particularly sadistic to kids. If DW was going to set anyone on fire, I'd think he would have set SS on fire to save the worse treatment for his ex-CEO boss.

Thank you! I'm glad you agree that it seems personal w PS.