DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #19

[FelicityLemon]

MSM did not explicitly state what was in the comment, but more than one article used terminology which would support it, ie, mutilation.

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk

Stabbing is mutilation enough. :/

ETA: we know he was used as a means of controlling the adults, it's probable that he was cut during the 18 hours. Mutilation doesn't have to be made to sound worse than it was. I also see no reason for msm to not report something because it's distasteful to some. That doesn't happen. Maybe it was *allegedly* only reported the one time because it was found out to be untrue.

I see this happen not only in comments to articles, but it's happened in other forums that random brand new posters pop in to post unsubstantiated and purposefully inflammatory items to suit their agenda. Those posters are shut down pretty quickly on reputable sites, but comments on outside articles or blogs remain to taint people's opinion. Commenters outside of here post some seriously weird things that sound like little kids excitedly telling stories (fibbing) all big-eyed and watching to see reactions. Creeps.

 

[rkf]

I saw a lot of speculation about JW and DW living feet away from each other for years---indicating that they must have known each other---and that JW probably went to high school with the younger Wints---and they probably all hung out together...etc

I saw some of the speculation and discounted most of it. (Never saw the part about high school together, but I never seem to catch up.) IIRC, the times that the apartments were rented near one another was some time ago. It's not impossible they met, but I would think there would need to be more than just a brief encounter years ago to have bearing on the case. If they met and stayed in touch, that would mean something else, and I think LE would uncover information that supported a more substantial relationship than meeting on the way to the parking lot once or twice ten years ago. I could have the facts/times wrong, so my thoughts on this could also be wrong.

It's really hard to tell where someone lived in the past from online sources. I compiled several lists of my POIs, from online sites and court records. Now that I know someone can give any old address, and it doesn't seem to be verified at the time of arrest, even that part of my research is pretty worthless.

 

[rkf]

Has it been established that he ever left the crime scene? Before he discovered his car was blocked he may have been talking to other bystanders at the fire scene.

Yes, I read that to mean came back to the car. There is not a ton of footage available from the crime scene, but it is interesting that we have seen NG in at least two video clips at different times of the day and another group of people who seem to be related to NG or VF in several clips and photos. I'm sure MSM generally made an effort not to include the faces of bystanders, but JW has never been a shrinking violet, so I would expect to catch a glimpse of him. I believe LE knows if he was there the whole time.

 

[rkf]

The video at the dirt ralley where he was wearing the vest had his plate on the dashboard of his car.

I have all that and have run those. We were trying to see if we could find when the S family's other cars were up for registration renewal and if any repairs were reported to Carfax - just confirming that JW's job included handling registration and repair of the vehicles.

 

[katydid23]

Good points.

I cannot, however, imagine a defense scenario that can get DW out of that house and out of this crime and insert JW ALONE...that is not utterly fantastic. And I can't imagine that a respected attorney, the head of the Department, is going to be a mouthpiece for such nonsense. Yes, we saw Baez in action...but George was at home, in the house, etc.

So if JW is on video cameras, with witnesses, etc during the entire duration of the crime...that is no credible defense for DW.

Unless, they already know there are gaps and holes in JW's timeline, wherein they can insert suspicion....as Baez did with George Anthony.

That's what I'm curios about. Why not try to blame some unknown Facebook friend who can't account for his time? Why pick JW? Unless they know...there's a point of "entry" to cast credible suspicion.

This will be high profile. How ridiculous does the Head of this Department want to look as this case is covered even internationally?

Let's compare this with your quite excellent culinary expertise, TexMex. Could the producer of some cooking show convince you to go on national TV and assert that traditional egg salad can be made without boiling eggs? You have your reputation with friends, family, and here on WS to protect!

That's why I'm suspicious that there is an opening in JW's account that gives DW's attorney just the opportunity he needs to cast his net and accuse JW and cast DW in a more sympathetic light.

"When we know who was there...etc" as the previous lawyer once said.

BBM
I would have agreed with the bolded, if the defense had not gone all in with that 9 am time on the picture text. THAT made me realize they had no idea what was up and they were just bluffing. :yes:

 

[SophieRose]

He wouldn't go in front of a GJ anyway because they are private. (I know you know all of this!) But yes, states do use GJ's after prelims. Recent example I can think of is Ross Harris.

That's in the state of Georgia. I don't know if other states do this.
http://www.georgiadefenders.com/preliminaryhearing.purpose.htm

The purpose of a preliminary hearing (sometimes called a committal or commitment hearing in Georgia) is “simply to determine whether there is probable cause to believe the accused guilty of the crime charged, and if so, to bind him over for indictment by the grand jury.”

 

[rkf]

Would the Mosler registration be needed for the inspections or repairs of the other cars? To me, having this in his possession still does not have a logical explanation. And I do not buy the idea that he was given it to keep as a momento for scrap booking.

Nope. You are supposed to bring the notice DMV mails you or the registration when you have the emissions test done. But SS did that months before hiring JW. Re-registering a car online is very simple, so I find it doubtful that SS would have JW go to DMV, wait half a day for his number to be called to register it in person in Maryland. It would make sense that SS would have had his registration renewed around the time that he had the emissions test done, but it never showed up on the carfax. Some states don't report re-registrations, and it appears some don't report all of them very well, but we don't know if the Mosler was ever re-registered. If JW had done it within the weeks that he was working there, it would have shown up on the carfax by now, IF MD reports all re-registrations to Carfax.

You definitely don't need your registration for repairs. If a dealership or mechanic reports repairs to Carfax, they use the VIN. I agree, the momento idea doesn't make sense to me either, but it makes more sense than needing it to maintain the cars.

 

[FelicityLemon]

I'd like to see the whole exchange verbatim in a transcript. So, did he not present himself immediately to LE? If it was me and I thought the scene was too tumultuous, I'd call police or present myself at the station right away to tell what I knew.

argh. (not at you, but the article) "returned hours later" later than what? Why hours? Why allegedly returned? He allegedly arrived before the tape went up, parked as close as he could get, got out of his car and walked up to a LEO. Came back to his car minutes later to find the tape up and his car hostage. Yep. Could have happened just as simply as that.

The statement of "returned hours later" needs a point of reference.

 

[katydid23]

It does matter. Those people who were laundering the money may be accessories after the fact or some other crime, which is a different and lesser crime. The same also goes if you knowingly bought the stolen samurai swords, which wouldn't make you a felony murderer. It depends on what exactly the 'it' is that you're in on. As an example - not that I think this would be but just as a legal example - if JW was in on stealing the Porsche where his arrangement was that he'd leave the car door unlocked with the keys inside and told DW et al when to come and steal it but then DW et al decided to do a home invasion and murder instead with the information, being in on grand theft auto wouldn't be a felony that would qualify for felony murder in DC as theft isn't one of the crimes listed in the statute.

NO, because if JW was planning on sending DW to the home to steal the Porsche, and then JW agreed to take money over there, knowing a robbery was about to take place, that HE SET UP, then he would be charged with murder too. It would not be Grand Theft Auto anymore, because the family was home a the time. That makes it ARMED ROBBERY. And JW would be taking part in it knowingly.

 

[katydid23]

Exactly! I don't think JW would get his hands dirty but he definitely is all about getting that money. I think there are too many coincidences and that at minimum his social media brags, and at most colluding with DW et al.

If he was colluding with DW who was about to do a home invasion, why would JW send out a pic of the ransom money?

 

[rkf]

I am so sorry to read this. I hope you will reconsider and continue to give your opinions and viewpoints, that many of us found valuable and insightful.On a website like this, why should any posters be "silenced" as long as their posts are within the "rules" of the site itself?

What has happened to the old spirit of free debate? There's no shame in having an alternative opinion. Aren't we here to test our hypotheses and don't we welcome intelligent rebuttal?

This would be one boring place if everyone is forced to think in lockstep or conform with the most popular opinion. In fact, it would just a a group of nodding heads. ��

If JW is innocent of involvement, there's no shame in the fact that we sleuthed a known liar that misled police and is linked by some very curious coincidences. God forbid that LE has such closed minds. It's allowed here to sleuth him. LE cherry-picked his SW's to be released. And he has a very empty past history and curiously affluent lifestyle considering his job history. He was fired for unknown reasons. Sponsors, opportunities that he himself said were on the horizon...just go away. Maybe he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But that has not be proven to MY satisfaction. It's great if others feel differently. But you and I are entitled to think and express our opinions freeLy within the site rules, aren't we?

I will have no regrets looking hard at JW and continuing to add my viewpoints to the discussion. My opinion is that THIS is why Websleuths exists...to sleuth from VARIOUS viewpoints. Not to be forced to accept the most popular point of view.

Please don't feel you can't express yourself!

I wanted to write something just like this, but you did it so much more eloquently! Thank you stmarysmead!

I will say that I don't think sleuthing is trying to prove that someone is innocent or guilty of a crime. I think it's trying to find as much information as possible and share it with the group, so we can work together to try to interpret the "evidence". When I find something about DW or JW I think is interesting, I post it here. We had such an AMAZING websleuths moment when I found that green car that I thought might belong to JW and skigirl found two videos showing that the car matched JW's!! That is awesome! Unfortunately, finding the car where it was parked doesn't really narrow down when it was left there, so it wasn't as earth shattering as I had hoped. If we had found it parked within the first block of the S house, I think that would have been a juicy tidbit, but still not definitive proof JW did something wrong.

If we keep working together to comb through the limited resources available to us, we can further our shared quest to find out what happened to these four people. I know we're just amateur sleuths, but we are here to sleuth. So let's all sleuth the few people and situations allowed by TOS to our best ability. We may find something that proves JW could NOT have been involved and that's as important as finding out who is.

Sometimes "salt of the earth" people commit horrible crimes that people close to them never suspect. Other times someone with a criminal history a mile long isn't the perpetrator of that particular crime.

P.S. Honestly, the DNA evidence from and on him makes me less interested in why/how DW could commit this crime. Even if he was a choirboy leading up to this, it would take a series of seriously unlikely events to explain away the forensic evidence. That's one reason I focus most of my sleuthing on JW. However, I do some off-site sleuthing that I can't talk about here. It's way more fun to sleuth with all of you guys, anyway.

 

[rkf]

It's been widely reported that PS died of thermal AND sharp instrument related injuries. Meaning that either injury would have led to death given enough time.

Asking a forensic question: does that mean either would have caused his death or can it mean the two together caused his death? It seems to me, as it was described, the thermal injuries would have killed him without the sharp instrument injuries. If not for the fire, would the injuries still have killed him? Wondering the same kind of thing about the others - would VF have died from blunt force injuries if she hadn't been strangled and vice versa?

 

[rkf]

Please stay and keep adding your insights! I am and have been...someone who is a great fan of your sleuthing ability.

I enjoy WS...because I was on the Debate team in college. At its best, WS reminds me of an online extension of that experience. By debate rules, you could not just endlessly repeat a position. The best posts here, IMO, are the ones that offer REAL counterpoints and intellectual or evidentiary contradictions...point by point.

Even when it's MY POV that is being dissected unfavorably, I enjoy those kinds of responses. Emotional stuff, and definitive proclamations...I just skip on and over.

You are a great poster! I will look forward to your continued input!

ITA! And I have been swayed a number of times by other posters' cogent arguments. I don't want to prove my theories are right. I want to know what happened!

Please keep sleuthing with us kammiemc!

 

[rkf]

In the spirit of free debate and alternative opinions it's also possible that JW was caught up in a horrible event, has been investigated and found not to be a suspect per the lead investigator. I see that it's not a popular opinion but it deserves respect as well. The man is not charged, under arrest or apparently under suspicion any longer by LE.
The U.S. atty in her questioning brought out JW had freely cooperated and his movements around the time of the brutal murders had been verified by LE

Of course that could change today, tomorrow or next month. It is only my opinion that it is unlikely to. It is my opinion only that the defense (like they appeared to do in the prelim) is going to attempt to take the focus off DW and point fingers at JW. It's just my opinion from watching trials for fifteen years here that it's not going to work.

I absolutely agree he could have been caught up in this horrible crime through no fault of his own. That's why I continue to sleuth him - to find as much info as possible that shows what he did, when he did it, what he knew, who he told what he knew, etc., etc. Sleuthing JW is the only way to prove he was not involved. If he was ever charged, a defense attorney can't just stand up in front of the jury and say "he didn't do it". There has to be an alternative plausible theory or an alibi. The only way to get those is to sleuth. JMO

 

[rkf]

I don't think it's been established. There was a single source. Given how poor the reporting has been in this case, I'd like to see a second.

Yeah, a second that doesn't just repeat what the first said without doing his/her own checking. :tantrum:

 

[rkf]

BBM: It might make sense because the blood of SS was found on his shoes. Perhaps the most definitive info available at the time.

The arrest warrant was for SS only, before LE had the blood evidence on DW's shoes. I think LE only had to pick one, and perhaps given what we don't know about the other victims, Federal charges will be even more applicable for them. I also think the prosecutors only want to try DW for one murder at a time, in case something should go wrong in the first trial. JMO.

 

[rkf]

No. It's a step instead of grand jury. There will be no grand jury. He is already bound for trial.

No GJ for DW. Hoping they come up with some other indictments so we can sleuth them!

 

[rkf]

If JW was involved I would expect him to be clear on that Thursday, what is more important is if he and DW or DW's convoy people talked in the weeks and months prior to the murders.

Yeah, kind of strange that the phone records SW didn't go back further than the 10th.

 

[rkf]

@rfk or anyone - can you read these plates? We'd like to run them to see if any inspections were even required during JW's employment......since I trust nothing he says.

I can't read these. I even tried increasing the resolution, etc. Can see most of the numbers, but the letters, one on top of the other on the left, are impossible. I did eliminate the Porsche from registration and repairs, so we only have 3 to go. (4 if we ever find the Bentley.)

 

[rkf]

Thanks for this. This is the one where I believe PS is saying Noooooo She Isn't ... and then the next word cuts off. I did hear the other one early on and he did say what are u doing? Stop ....

Are there two recordings or imho one is spliced shorter.

????

Eta spelling

This is all I have because I couldn't download the early CBS clip and didn't think to grab others before they disappeared.