DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[rkf]

I guess my question is WHY did LE need to know who JW is (remembering at the time, JW nor the police knew anything about the ransom)? They were dealing with a horrible situation. Why would JW go up to tell them "Hey, I work for this family. Can I help you hold a hose or something?" It just doesn't make any sense at all in my head why he would need to point himself out.

I mean, after all...isn't that why y'all think the man is so awful? Because he likes attention? But now you are saying that he should have made himself part of this crime scene. To get attention for himself?

I think given how much he likes attention, it is definitely weird that he didn't take the opportunity to make himself a bigger part of the story (like NG did). His sudden shyness appears to be very out of character for his online persona. I think that LE would want to talk to anyone who was at the house that day, even if it wasn't an arson and the deaths were accidental. If the landscapers showed up at the fire, I believe LE would have wanted to talk to them. LE and fire investigators would want to know what happened leading up to the fire, timelines, how soon the fire could have possibly started, anything unusual around the home, etc.

Either there was something about what JW said when he first approached the officer, or they had information from another source that made LE interested enough in him that they took him directly to homicide to be interviewed. (Apparently, what they heard there made them even more suspicious.) I would think NG was also taken to homicide to be interviewed. I would really like to know that to see if they treated all employees the same. Maybe only the one who was at the house that day was taken downtown. Maybe they only took the ones who showed up at the fire to homicide.

We know JW didn't walk up to the officer and say he delivered $40,000 that morning, because he didn't even give that information to detectives when they first interviewed him.

BTW, IMO there are ways to speak to LE about something that happened at a home before it became a crime scene (or before the witness knows it's a crime scene) that don't involve drawing attention to oneself in MSM or on SM. It's not necessary to do both.

 

[kammiemc]

OK...

What, does something in that post sound ludicrous?

 

[TexMex]

I don't know! Owens was specific about JW returning to 3201 to get his car. Do you think it's possible that Owens thinks that JW was returning to 3201 to get his car for the first time after dropping off the cash at the house? That would mean that his car had been there the whole time. I am kind of thinking that JW did actually go to the scene after the fire (although the timing test is interesting!) because he said that he did and also it would seem that he connected with NG there and he shared the info about dropping off the money. However, I suppose that could have been down via phone? It wouldn't be incriminating if he took a different car. It seemed he drove all the S cars. There's never been a mention of the car he was driving that day, with the exception that he said he had a manila envelope his car in the AM. It's really neither here nor there in terms of probable cause for DW, which is why none of these deets were brought up in the PH!

Because they weren't relevant. LE knows these details. JW was contacted by his boss and asked to meet another employee, pick up a package and deliver it to him at the home. JW did so. He's cleared and a crucial witness per Ago.

 

[kammiemc]

Since he didn't have a remote or other access to the garage/house, how would he have opened or closed the garage door?

ETA: I believe that's what he said in his first story (in the affidavit) but I thought it was established at PH that he couldn't have closed it.

Argh. It looks like I have to read the transcript yet a third time. I do remember the part about him not having a code or remote. Something must be wonky, because JW's final account of his actions in the affidavit said that he closed the garage door, and if he didn't, that would mean that his final account was still untrue. Maybe what Katy said is possible then, that he saw DW come out and get the money. Maybe it scared the bejeezus about of him.

 

[katydid23]

We don't know. We only know what Owens said that another officer told him. We have no idea what JW said, if he volunteered information other than his name and that he wanted his car. Did he tell everything as soon as he parked his car (no) or as soon as he went back to his car and saw an officer unoccupied (possibly)? Did they have to ask him a few questions to see why he was parked there (maybe)?

My post was in response to Corundog's

and Bondgirl's

My post immediately preceding the one you quoted was

BBM

Why would he say anything when he parked his car? For all he knew it was a kitchen fire started by VF, and he was going to see the S family standing by the fire engines. He had no idea what happened yet, IMO.

 

[mk4osu]

Just a guess: Maybe he had keys to the vehicles, that were sitting in the driveway. It's possible, since it was his job to drive SS. He could have unlocked one of those vehicles with his keys, and hit the remote button on the opener. After he put the money in the Mosler, walked back out, hit that same remote, locked the vehicle, and left. IMO, no way he saw DW.

Argh. It looks like I have to read the transcript yet a third time. I do remember the part about him not having a code or remote. Something must be wonky, because JW's final account of his actions in the affidavit said that he closed the garage door, and if he didn't, that would mean that his final account was still untrue. Maybe what Katy said is possible then, that he saw DW come out and get the money. Maybe it scared the bejeezus about of him.

 

[al66pine]

.... JW was contacted by his boss and asked to meet another employee, pick up a package and deliver it to him at the home. JW did so. He's cleared and a crucial witness per Ago.

sbm For sake of discussion in this post, agreeing that JW did as boss requested.

Are you saying, per Ago, JW is -
--- cleared (of any possible crim involvement)? and
--- a crucial witness?

Not sure if I am correctly following line of reasoning. Thx in adv.

 

[kammiemc]

Just a guess: Maybe he had keys to the vehicles, that were sitting in the driveway. It's possible, since it was his job to drive SS. He could have unlocked one of those vehicles with his keys, and hit the remote button on the opener. After he put the money in the Mosler, walked back out, hit that same remote, locked the vehicle, and left. IMO, no way he saw DW.

That seems possible. Although he said that the garage door was open when he got there and that he closed it behind him. (Of course, there's always the hit the button and shimmy under the door as it closes!)

 

[TexMex]

sbm For sake of discussion in this post, agreeing that JW did as boss requested.

Are you saying, per Ago, JW is -
--- cleared (of any possible crim involvement)? and
--- a crucial witness?

Not sure if I am correctly following line of reasoning. Thx in adv.

JW is a crucial witness. Ago, therefore, will attempt to impeach him.
Bach has cleared him IMO.

 

[al66pine]

Backtracking to "Winfield defendant" I wonder if the ref is to this case:

[/SIZE]http://law.justia.com/cases/district-of-columbia/court-of-appeals/1996/92-cf-723-6.html
676 A.2d 1 (1996)Reginald WINFIELD, Appellant, v. UNITED STATES, Appellee.
No. 92-CF-723.

District of Columbia Court of Appeals.Argued En Banc December 7, 1995.
Decided April 24, 1996.


Too tired to read now. Sunday, will look for interps re above.

 

[blessedlife]

FWIW JW self-identifies as white and he was raised in the suburbs.

What is FWIW? What reference is there that JW identifies himself as white? As a multi-racial family, not one of my sons have ever "proclaimed" to be black or white. It's never....ever been a conversation. Our conversations as parents have been about truth, honesty, respect and tolerance of differences. They have grown up in suburbs quite comfortably but they are young men.......black, white or purple. Their mistakes are based on their actions and behaviors.....not their race. And they know that. I don't have statistics on biracial children and what "color" they identify with, but based on my experience., raising my own young men, they mark "black" for the box. It doesn't mean they are any less white......it means you have to check a box.


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[kammiemc]

As I have said, yes he realized it was crazy to have $40K cash in his hands. That this was actually his job.

Clearly, he is a monster for not informing LE that he was an employee. Got it.

Corndogs, Just to clarify, no one has said JW is a monster for not approaching LE prior to wanting his car out. I think at the most extreme people have used terms like "disappointed" and "disheartened". As the most important witness in this case (add to that his changing stories, accusations by LE and the general mystery surrounding him) JW and his actions/experiences in regard to this case and what was discussed in the transcript garner interest.


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[katydid23]

What is FWIW? What reference is there that JW identifies himself as white? As a multi-racial family, not one of my sons have ever "proclaimed" to be black or white. It's never....ever been a conversation. Our conversations as parents have been about truth, honesty, respect and tolerance of differences. They have grown up in suburbs quite comfortably but they are young men.......black, white or purple. Their mistakes are based on their actions and behaviors.....not their race. And they know that. I don't have statistics on biracial children and what "color" they identify with, but based on my experience., raising my own young men, they mark "black" for the box. It doesn't mean they are any less white......it means you have to check a box.


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My kids are bi-racial too. And live in a nice suburb. But we are just North of Los Angeles, so they know city life. Some paperwork has started adding 'bi-racial ' as an option. My daughter used to check "other' when given that choice. LOL

 

[Peliman]

What is FWIW? What reference is there that JW identifies himself as white? As a multi-racial family, not one of my sons have ever "proclaimed" to be black or white. It's never....ever been a conversation. Our conversations as parents have been about truth, honesty, respect and tolerance of differences. They have grown up in suburbs quite comfortably but they are young men.......black, white or purple. Their mistakes are based on their actions and behaviors.....not their race. And they know that. I don't have statistics on biracial children and what "color" they identify with, but based on my experience., raising my own young men, they mark "black" for the box. It doesn't mean they are any less white......it means you have to check a box.


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Morning blessedlife

FWIW = For what it's worth

 

[kammiemc]

I think that's the way it happened. I think it may have been only a matter of minutes of him parking, getting out on foot, returning to taped off car. I don't for a second believe that malarky of "hours later".

This is from the cbs article, last updated July 20, that states the detective said that JW was at the scene before the tape went up and came back hours later to get his car. Is this the smarmy article? (Or was it reported in another article as well?)

It appears that it is based on the PH testimony, so must just the author's interpretations, which wouldn't necessarily be more accurate than yours or mine. Although where did the author get the "hours" reference. Owens didn't say that in the PH. (Maybe the author talked to other officers about timing? Seems a weird thing to make up, but....)

I am curious though, why would it be unbelievable that JW might not have been at the scene for the hours between the tape going up and asking for his car. It doesn't strike me as nuts if JW was off getting something to eat or meeting a friend to talk about what was happening if he was in shock. ??

Snippet:

"Wallace allegedly returned to the scene of the crime and said his car was parked inside police tape. The detective said that indicated he was there before the tape went up and came back hours later."

Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/detective-2-d-c-mansion-murder-victims-were-strangled/


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[katydid23]

This is from the cbs article, last updated July 20, that states the detective said that JW was at the scene before the tape went up and came back hours later to get his car. Is this the smarmy article? (Or was it reported in another article as well?)

It appears that it is based on the PH testimony, so must just the author's interpretations, which wouldn't necessarily be more accurate than yours or mine. Although where did the author get the "hours" reference. Owens didn't say that in the PH. (Maybe the author talked to other officers about timing? Seems a weird thing to make up, but....)

I am curious though, why would it be unbelievable that JW might not have been at the scene for the hours between the tape going up and asking for his car. It doesn't strike me as nuts if JW was off getting something to eat or meeting a friend to talk about what was happening if he was in shock. ??

Snippet:

"Wallace allegedly returned to the scene of the crime and said his car was parked inside police tape. The detective said that indicated he was there before the tape went up and came back hours later."

Link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/detective-2-d-c-mansion-murder-victims-were-strangled/


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Hours can mean 2 even. That makes sense to me. He stands around the scene, in shock, talking with NG, and whomever else drove out to the house. And after a hour or so, he knows the ropes are still up, and so he walks to get a coffee and make some calls and center himself. I think he may have called his mom or dad or both, and explained the situation and tried to get a handle on it. He walks back an hour later and talks to the cops. JMO

It also makes me wonder if his Dad scared the chit out of him during the call. For example: 'You WHAT??!!??? You dropped off 40k in the garage and now the house burned down and there were bodies inside? Are you kidding me? The cops are going to come at you hard , son. '====== Or something like that?

 

[Crosscntrymom]

They picked him because they wanted someone who would give testimony that supported holding DW for trial and give the defense as little information as possible. I don't think this is his first bronco ride.

Agreed. The PH isn't the venue for presenting forensic evidence. I suspect the State felt confident they had enough to accomplish their goal. No reason for the lead detective to lay out all the evidence, especially if other perps are involved.

 

[BellaVita]

What is FWIW? What reference is there that JW identifies himself as white? As a multi-racial family, not one of my sons have ever "proclaimed" to be black or white. It's never....ever been a conversation. Our conversations as parents have been about truth, honesty, respect and tolerance of differences. They have grown up in suburbs quite comfortably but they are young men.......black, white or purple. Their mistakes are based on their actions and behaviors.....not their race. And they know that. I don't have statistics on biracial children and what "color" they identify with, but based on my experience., raising my own young men, they mark "black" for the box. It doesn't mean they are any less white......it means you have to check a box.


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The evidence that he identifies white comes from the Maryland Case Search. He did not identify as African American, but rather in the Caucasian category that is provided.

 

[BellaVita]

I guess my question is WHY did LE need to know who JW is (remembering at the time, JW nor the police knew anything about the ransom)? They were dealing with a horrible situation. Why would JW go up to tell them "Hey, I work for this family. Can I help you hold a hose or something?" It just doesn't make any sense at all in my head why he would need to point himself out.

I mean, after all...isn't that why y'all think the man is so awful? Because he likes attention? But now you are saying that he should have made himself part of this crime scene. To get attention for himself?

It wouldn't be attention for himself. There is a time for speaking out and a time to have discretion. It is good personal policy to know how to distinguish between the two.

 

[Skigirl]

Because they weren't relevant. LE knows these details. JW was contacted by his boss and asked to meet another employee, pick up a package and deliver it to him at the home. JW did so. He's cleared and a crucial witness per Ago.

Link please for "cleared"?