DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[rkf]

True! Lol, that's what I said. :drumroll: a smarmy article with an agenda. I didn't post the link because I'd posted it before. It stinks.

I also believe that if it were true (returning hours later) that the reason could have been he was away being interviewed. Just a possibility, because I'd hate to think that msm could post something not based on fact or truth... badumpbump. I believe it could be. We don't know.

They would have dropped him off there and told him that if they were ticked off at him for lying, lol. LE are human beings, too and just as capable as passive-aggressive behaviors.

IMO that's why Det. Owens testified how he did - annoyance maybe. To me, it wasn't straight up defense of W-1, it's true that he's not a suspect, etc. but it seemed grudgingly admitted.

We don't know. I do look forward to more information as it's released. That article sucked. Allegedly. :hilarious:

I would hope that even if they hate JW because he lied to them, knowing the prosecution (if they do) wants him as a friendly witness, they would lay off the insinuations and side-eye. Especially if they think he is not involved in the crime. According to Owen's testimony, LE first came into contact with JW when he returned to his car after parking it (whenever) and the tape went up, not before.
Q And did -- how did W-1 make himself known to the police? What did he say when he went up to 3201?
A If I remember correctly his car was parked within the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made himself known to the police at that point.

BBM

 

[rkf]

I thought they picked him because he is the Lead Detective.

That too. Okay, maybe more because of that.

 

[rkf]

But that's not how others might perceive him. Plenty here on WS were sure he fit the description:

===The Porsche was seen at about 1:30 pm being driven west on New York avenue “erratically by a black male, with short well-groomed hair, wearing a neon lime green construction vest,” according to the police affidavit.===

Perhaps, but the discussion (as I understand it) was that JW might be afraid to talk to police because he was a black urban male. If he is a white suburban male, his perception of police might be more similar to that of an "older white lady". I think to assume that JW didn't want to talk to police because of his skin color, rather than that he was freaked out because he had delivered $40,000 to the house earlier, is a stretch. How others perceive him would not be as important as how he perceives himself in this argument, if it is/was a valid argument. JMO

ETA: According to Owen's testimony, the description doesn't fit JW either.

Q And then it says dark, slim, medium to late 20s, early 30s. What does that dark refer to?
A Complexion.
Q And is W-1 dark complected?
A Yes.
Q W-1?
A I'm sorry, W-1, no.

p.137#15

 

[rkf]

Read the language Owens used. He repeated that JW "returned" to the scene at 3201 to ask for his car. I don't think he would have used that language if he thought JW were at the scene at 3201 the whole time before he asked for his car and taken right then to homicide for a interview.

I'm not so sure. Owens didn't say he returned to the scene (meaning the entire taped off area). He said he returned to his car. He could have been sitting across the street behind NG, off news camera range, until the fire trucks all left. I'm not convinced JW parked his car and went off somewhere else for hours. It is of course very possible, but I don't yet have any reason to think that. I saw a photographer taking a lot of photos close in on one of the news clips. I think he may have been a LE or fire photographer. I bet they have photos of all the people sitting around the fire scene, so they know if he was there and for how long.

 

[rkf]

He was gone for as long as the tape was up. How long? Dunno! But Owens said he returned to the scene at 3201, not returned to his car. It really seems like Owns knows he left the scene at some point and returned . That is not incriminating, just specific. I am not sure why else he would use that language. "Kammie returned to the golf course and wanted to get her car" vs "Kammie was at the golf course and returned to her car wanting to get it out."

He started to say that, but then stopped himself. Even if he believes that, I don't think he wants the defense to know he thinks that.

Q Did W-1 make himself known to the police before he spoke to the police or did the police have to go out and get
him? In other words, how did the police come across W-1?
A W-1 returned -- W-1 went up to the scene near 31 -- 3201 Woodland and he made himself known to the police at that point.

p.17#13

In fact, when Ago used the word "returned", Owens didn't go along with it.

Q Okay. And so prior to the police putting up the tape W-1 returned to the area of 3201 and parked his car; is that correct?
A Well, at some point the tape was put up and W-1's car was within the tape.

 

[corundogs]

I still don't think that at the time, JW had put the two events together. He thought his boss was going to an auction that morning. He later found out his boss's house was on fire. Why would he automatically think "OMG! I must tell LEO immediately that my boss is at an equipment auction that I dropped money off for!"

IMO, there was no reason to think that the two things had anything to do with each other. Apparently, y'all think differently. But that is why I said what I said. When he realized his car was behind the tape, I am sure they asked him why it was there. He told him then. He didn't try to hide why he was there, which is why the Investigator said he "made his presence known" or whatever the wording was.

But if his car wasn't behind the tape, I wouldn't blame him for not approaching LE that afternoon to explain his actions that morning. Because I wouldn't assume that my boss was dead inside that house that was on fire.

Again, y'all seem to feel differently. You have the ability of that wonderful 20/20 hindsight. And the knowledge of reading about true crimes for years (or this could be your first case!) JW wouldn't have those things. IMO, as far as he was concerned, he did his job as was asked by his boss. His boss's house caught on fire. He had no way of knowing the two were intertwined.

 

[rkf]

Okay, thanks for sharing your opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're welcome. Thank you for sharing yours!

 

[corundogs]

Oh and one more thing...remember how confused we all were because the story going around for quite some time was the money WAS FOR AN AUCTION.

That is clearly what the "outsiders" involved thought. LEO might have known immediately it was for ransom as soon as they heard about it.

But since NG and another family member were stating publicly that JW had dropped money off for an auction...why do y'all expect JW to have thought it was anything else? He had been around for a short time. Long time employee thought it was true. Why should JW question that?

 

[rkf]

According to Owens answer, JW said more than "it was his car and gave his name"

PH Page 18 - Argo questions; Owens answers:
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.

Because of the way Owens answered the questions, we don't know if JW gave his employment information when he approached the officer or if he provided it after being asked for more information. Owens' answers were very unhelpful for those of us trying to figure out exactly what was said by whom to whom. Which was (I think) exactly his intention, but toward the defense, not us Websleuthers.

 

[rkf]

I still don't think that at the time, JW had put the two events together. He thought his boss was going to an auction that morning. He later found out his boss's house was on fire. Why would he automatically think "OMG! I must tell LEO immediately that my boss is at an equipment auction that I dropped money off for!"

IMO, there was no reason to think that the two things had anything to do with each other. Apparently, y'all think differently. But that is why I said what I said. When he realized his car was behind the tape, I am sure they asked him why it was there. He told him then. He didn't try to hide why he was there, which is why the Investigator said he "made his presence known" or whatever the wording was.

But if his car wasn't behind the tape, I wouldn't blame him for not approaching LE that afternoon to explain his actions that morning. Because I wouldn't assume that my boss was dead inside that house that was on fire.

Again, y'all seem to feel differently. You have the ability of that wonderful 20/20 hindsight. And the knowledge of reading about true crimes for years (or this could be your first case!) JW wouldn't have those things. IMO, as far as he was concerned, he did his job as was asked by his boss. His boss's house caught on fire. He had no way of knowing the two were intertwined.

He might not have made the connection. I think he would have seen/heard three bodies were removed from the house. Even if he didn't know they were murdered and didn't think delivering the money (which he even thought was "insane") to SS' car without seeing him had anything to do with the fire, I would think he would go up to LE first chance he got and tell them he was SS' employee. Maybe he did do that. I just think Owens could have conveyed that more clearly and positively if that was the case (or more to the point - if he wanted to convey it that way.) Maybe Owens is still casting vague aspersions at JW in hopes that the defense will spend a lot of time investigating him instead of coming up with a viable defense.

 

[corundogs]

He might not have made the connection. I think he would have seen/heard three bodies were removed from the house. Even if he didn't know they were murdered and didn't think delivering the money (which he even thought was "insane") to SS' car without seeing him had anything to do with the fire, I would think he would go up to LE first chance he got and tell them he was SS' employee. Maybe he did do that. I just think Owens could have conveyed that more clearly and positively if that was the case (or more to the point - if he wanted to convey it that way.) Maybe Owens is still casting vague aspersions at JW in hopes that the defense will spend a lot of time investigating him instead of coming up with a viable defense.

I guess my question is WHY did LE need to know who JW is (remembering at the time, JW nor the police knew anything about the ransom)? They were dealing with a horrible situation. Why would JW go up to tell them "Hey, I work for this family. Can I help you hold a hose or something?" It just doesn't make any sense at all in my head why he would need to point himself out.

I mean, after all...isn't that why y'all think the man is so awful? Because he likes attention? But now you are saying that he should have made himself part of this crime scene. To get attention for himself?

 

[kammiemc]

Oh and one more thing...remember how confused we all were because the story going around for quite some time was the money WAS FOR AN AUCTION.

That is clearly what the "outsiders" involved thought. LEO might have known immediately it was for ransom as soon as they heard about it.

But since NG and another family member were stating publicly that JW had dropped money off for an auction...why do y'all expect JW to have thought it was anything else? He had been around for a short time. Long time employee thought it was true. Why should JW question that?

I am sure he thought it was for an auction as did the accountant. (Why wouldn't they think that if SS said that? SS, controlled by DW, as we know, but they didn't.) However, JW did not assume this was biz as usual. We know he thought his job was crazy because he was being asked to carry that money. And, in fact, per the transcript he was surprised that his job that day was to transport $40k. It definitely stood out in his mind as surprising. (It is not incriminating to him if he didn't at least wonder if there could be a connection and bring it to LE's attention. But I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he as sharp as NG and would realize that LE might be interested in his communication with SS that day. It seems he approached LE because he wanted his car out. Good job for him that he also gave his name, whether he was asked or offered it without being asked. This does not impress me that much. It would be expected.)

This is the part from the transcript saying that he was surprised:

Q And W-1 didn't express any sort of surprise to the
police that that's in fact what -- in other words, he was
just told to pick up a package and he gets 40 thousand
dollars in cash?
A Are you -- you're asking if W-1 was surprised when
he discovered it was money?
Q Yes.
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Okay, he was?
A Yes.

 

[corundogs]

I am sure he thought it was for an auction as did the accountant. (Why wouldn't they think that if SS said that? SS, controlled by DW, as we know, but they didn't.) However, JW did not assume this was biz as usual. We know he thought his job was crazy because he was being asked to carry that money. And, in fact, per the transcript he was surprised that his job that day was to transport $40k. It definitely stood out in his mind as surprising. (It is not incriminating to him if he didn't at least wonder if there could be a connection and bring it to LE's attention. But I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he as sharp as NG and would realize that LE might be interested in his communication with SS that day. It seems he approached LE because he wanted his car out. Good job for him that he also gave his name, whether he was asked or offered it without being asked. This does not impress me that much. It would be expected.)

This is the part from the transcript saying that he was surprised:

Q And W-1 didn't express any sort of surprise to the
police that that's in fact what -- in other words, he was
just told to pick up a package and he gets 40 thousand
dollars in cash?
A Are you -- you're asking if W-1 was surprised when
he discovered it was money?
Q Yes.
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Okay, he was?
A Yes.

As I have said, yes he realized it was crazy to have $40K cash in his hands. That this was actually his job.

Clearly, he is a monster for not informing LE that he was an employee. Got it.

 

[tambo]

No. That's not what that means. It means even if JW was the defense's Winfield defendant (the person Ago wants to blame for the crime) it wouldn't negate the evidence the state has against DW. JW being "guilty" would not make DW "innocent". They could both be guilty, so no Winfield.

Did the defence at one point during the ph say that w1. Was not their Winfield defendant? I'm on my cell and can't get the transcript

 

[kammiemc]

I guess my question is WHY did LE need to know who JW is (remembering at the time, JW nor the police knew anything about the ransom)? They were dealing with a horrible situation. Why would JW go up to tell them "Hey, I work for this family. Can I help you hold a hose or something?" It just doesn't make any sense at all in my head why he would need to point himself out.

I mean, after all...isn't that why y'all think the man is so awful? Because he likes attention? But now you are saying that he should have made himself part of this crime scene. To get attention for himself?

Because it would normal behavior for someone who is savvy enough to be a media specialist to have the presence of mind to introduce himself to LE and ask if he can provide any info given that he'd had close interaction with SS and the house hours earlier. He did insert himself in the situation by texting AS. He did know (thought he knew) where SS was. So, it is curious that he did not present himself to LE before he was trying to get his car out. (That was his only interaction with LE at the scene according to Owens.)
I don't think one has to think JW is "so awful" to be curious about why he acted the way he did. It's very interesting.

 

[kammiemc]

Did the defence at one point during the ph say that w1. Was not their Winfield defendant? I'm on my cell and can't get the transcript

Below was Ago's response to Bach's assertion that Ago might wrongfully be treating JW like a Winfield defendant--wrongfully because JW cannot be a Winfield defendant because any involvement on his part would not discount DW's involvement. Both lawyers know this.

Here it is:

MR. AGO: W-1 is a crucial witness in this case,
Your Honor, and if we can -- there are statements that W-1's made to the police, and what we are trying to do is explore W-1's credibility. And I think we're allowed to do that.
It's not a Winfield -- we're not --
THE COURT: He told him he went to the dojo, and
your question is whether or not they confirmed that. Is that
the only question you're going to have about that? Because
I'll allow that but that's it. I mean you're not going to go
dojo to somewhere else to somewhere else. Okay. So I'll
allow that.
MS. BACH: Thank you.
THE COURT: To that question.
MS. BACH: Thank you.
(Close bench conference).
THE COURT: You may ask that question.
MR. AGO: Thank you, Your Honor...

 

[corundogs]

Because it would normal behavior for someone who is savvy enough to be a media specialist to have the presence of mind to introduce himself to LE and ask if he can provide any info given that he'd had close interaction with SS and the house hours earlier. He did insert himself in the situation by texting AS. He did know (thought he knew) where SS was. So, it is curious that he did not present himself to LE before he was trying to get his car out. (That was his only interaction with LE at the scene according to Owens.)
I don't think one has to think JW is "so awful" to be curious about why he acted the way he did. It's very interesting.

OK...let's play hypothetical for a minute.

What if the fire was caused by an electrical shortage.

WHY ON EARTH would LE care who JW was? The house caught on fire and some people may have died. Who cares if you work for the owner? What could LE possibly need him for???

 

[kammiemc]

OK...let's play hypothetical for a minute.

What if the fire was caused by an electrical shortage.

WHY ON EARTH would LE care who JW was? The house caught on fire and some people may have died. Who cares if you work for the owner? What could LE possibly need him for???

It was reported that at least one of the bodies strongly smelled like gasoline. (I am kind of assuming that people at the crime scene would have talked a bit, even if JW wasn't there to witness that for himself, though I could be wrong.)

It seems that LE did care who JW was because they took him immediately to homicide to interview him.

Normal is one of those subjective things. If my neighbors' house caught on fire and there were deaths, and I had been texting with the mom of the house earlier about hiking trails, I would present myself to LE and let them know the timing of our text conversation, that she had been home at that time, and ask if I could help in any way. To me, it would be abnormal not to present myself and my interactions (no matter how benign) with the family on that day. But that's just me. For you, it might be more normal to not say anything at all to LE until you wanted to get your car out and leave.

ETA: One reason LE might have been interested in talking to JW would be if JW had previously talked with NG about the fact that he dropped off $40k cash earlier and she had already shared that info with LE. In that case, they very well might have been waiting for him to return and get his car so they could find out more about that situation. That would be a very reasonable response by LE.

 

[corundogs]

It was reported that at least one of the bodies strongly smelled like gasoline. (I am kind of assuming that people at the crime scene would have talked a bit, even if JW wasn't there to witness that for himself, though I could be wrong.)

It seems that LE did care who JW was because they took him immediately to homicide to interview him.

Normal is one of those subjective things. If my neighbors' house caught on fire and there were deaths, and I had been texting with the mom of the house earlier about hiking trails, I would present myself to LE and let them know the timing of our text conversation, that she had been home at that time, and ask if I could help in any way. To me, it would be abnormal not to present myself and my interactions (no matter how benign) with the family on that day. But that's just me. For you, it might be more normal to not say anything at all to LE until you wanted to get your car out and leave.

ETA: One reason LE might have been interested in talking to JW would be if JW had previously talked with NG about the fact that he dropped off $40k cash earlier and she had already shared that info with LE. In that case, they very well might have been waiting for him to return and get his car so they could find out more about that situation. That would be a very reasonable response by LE.

OK...

 

[kammiemc]

Well, he was at the "scene" (before it became a scene) when he dropped off the cash at the home. Not sure if that helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know! Owens was specific about JW returning to 3201 to get his car. Do you think it's possible that Owens thinks that JW was returning to 3201 to get his car for the first time after dropping off the cash at the house? That would mean that his car had been there the whole time. I am kind of thinking that JW did actually go to the scene after the fire (although the timing test is interesting!) because he said that he did and also it would seem that he connected with NG there and he shared the info about dropping off the money. However, I suppose that could have been down via phone? It wouldn't be incriminating if he took a different car. It seemed he drove all the S cars. There's never been a mention of the car he was driving that day, with the exception that he said he had a manila envelope his car in the AM. It's really neither here nor there in terms of probable cause for DW, which is why none of these deets were brought up in the PH!