DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[rkf]

I'm on my cell phone so I can't get the transcripts. Did the defence say at one point that they were not considering w1 as anwinfield defendant. Doesn't that mean they don't consider him to be involved.

No. That's not what that means. It means even if JW was the defense's Winfield defendant (the person Ago wants to blame for the crime) it wouldn't negate the evidence the state has against DW. JW being "guilty" would not make DW "innocent". They could both be guilty, so no Winfield.

 

[FelicityLemon]

FWIW JW self-identifies as white and he was raised in the suburbs.

But that's not how others might perceive him. Plenty here on WS were sure he fit the description:

===The Porsche was seen at about 1:30 pm being driven west on New York avenue “erratically by a black male, with short well-groomed hair, wearing a neon lime green construction vest,” according to the police affidavit.===

 

[rkf]

A week ago somebody did a visual as to the roadblocks and for where the car was. I am on my phone for the next day but does somebody have that available to repost?

 

[FelicityLemon]

In the transcript it was very, very clear that JW returned to the scene and asked for his car PRIOR to him being taken to homicide. In fact, approaching LE for his car was the impetus for them taking him to homicide right then. Also, of course he told them who he was. If he had lied or refused to give his name and why he was in the neighborhood that would be big trouble.

I think that's the way it happened. I think it may have been only a matter of minutes of him parking, getting out on foot, returning to taped off car. I don't for a second believe that malarky of "hours later".

 

[rkf]

" "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss asked him to do. "

From information provided in affidavits and the preliminary hearing, for me it is logical to deduce what another poster wrote about JW, "he was just doing what his boss asked him to do."

I only take issue with the word "just" in that sentence.

 

[rkf]

Picture of JW's BMW beyond the police tape was entry #511 on thread 19, DC Police tweets timeline was on entry #389 of thread 19.

Last Thursday, I decided to time the most direct route from the dojo to the point on Woodland Dr. where Jw's car was pictured(entry 511). I started at the dojo on Willard Rd. in Chantilly at 1:45pm taking US 50 to VA28 to I66(have I said how I HATE I66?) to the Rock Creek Pkwy to Mass Ave to 30th St to Woodland Dr. parking just north of the intersection of 31st Place and Woodland. Driving at the normal Washington pace in an agile Volvo, the journey took me 68 and a half minutes.

Jump to the day of the murders. Police would have blocked Woodland at 31st Place because the next intersection(Woodland and 32nd)was the fire/crime scene. They would have used a patrol car blocking to divert traffic northbound onto 31st place to Cleveland Ave. and would have been done within 15 minutes of fire and police vehicles arriving at the SS house.

If we are to use the timeline of the fire being reported at 1:24pm, the police blockade of Woodland would have been done by 1:45pm. If JW left the dojo at 1:45pm, he could not arrived at the location where his BMW was pictured until 2:54pm. How did he get the car around the police car blocking the street(and the officer directing traffic) with an active crime scene just a hundred yards up the road?
Note: I also tried the other way to get there via the Beltway into Bethesda then south and it took an hour and twenty minutes without serious traffic problems.)

roverlwb - you are awesome! I can't believe you did the drive! We all owe you a bunch of thanks. I don't think I would take that one for the team THANK YOU!!!

 

[kammiemc]

LE said it. Hope someone else has the link. I already posted it some time ago.

Read the language Owens used. He repeated that JW "returned" to the scene at 3201 to ask for his car. I don't think he would have used that language if he thought JW were at the scene at 3201 the whole time before he asked for his car and taken right then to homicide for a interview.

 

[rkf]

I have always wondered if JW might have left the garage door open, because maybe he was asked to do so. And maybe he sat in his car out on the street, watching the cash to make sure no one took it before his boss retrieved it. Because I would probably do that if I was responsible for 40k until it was in my bosses hands.

And what if he sat in his car and watched the garage, and saw an unknown male come out and close the garage door from inside?

I doubt it happened because I'd think he would have called SS if so. I would have. But IDK.

If that were the case, I'd think JW would tell that to LE immediately upon being interviewed. I'd think he would smell something fishy and want to share that information. I wouldn't think he would tell several different stories before arriving at "the truth" about the delivery, because sitting there in the homicide office, he might think what he saw was relevant. I wish he had done that, but I'm not sure there would have been time between the "package delivered" text and arrival at Lowe's to sit outside the garage. Maybe if DW retrieved it immediately there would be time.

 

[rkf]

I thought he closed the garage door? At least that is what he said, and it would make sense for him to do so. Still, he might have caught onto some funny business somehow.

Since he didn't have a remote or other access to the garage/house, how would he have opened or closed the garage door?

ETA: I believe that's what he said in his first story (in the affidavit) but I thought it was established at PH that he couldn't have closed it.

 

[kammiemc]

I think that's the way it happened. I think it may have been only a matter of minutes of him parking, getting out on foot, returning to taped off car. I don't for a second believe that malarky of "hours later".

He was gone for as long as the tape was up. How long? Dunno! But Owens said he returned to the scene at 3201, not returned to his car. It really seems like Owns knows he left the scene at some point and returned . That is not incriminating, just specific. I am not sure why else he would use that language. "Kammie returned to the golf course and wanted to get her car" vs "Kammie was at the golf course and returned to her car wanting to get it out."

 

[observation]

I didn't. I read it as they don't want the defense to know what they know.

Okay, thanks for sharing your opinion.


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[SeesSeas]

Read the language Owens used. He repeated that JW "returned" to the scene at 3201 to ask for his car. I don't think he would have used that language if he thought JW were at the scene at 3201 the whole time before he asked for his car and taken right then to homicide for a interview.

When questioned by Argo, Owens corrected his words IMO, which is represented by the dashes in the transcribing of the PH.
Owens corrected the following on page 17:
W-1 returned -- W-1 went up to the scene
near 31 --3201 Woodland

IMO -
Owens erred in stating "W-1 returned" and then corrected with this statement "W-1 went up to the scene"
Owens erred in stating "near 31" and then corrected with this statement "3201 Woodland"

Argo questioning Owens p 17 – 19:
Q Did W-1 make himself known to the police before he spoke to the police or did the police have to go out and get him? In other words, how did the police come across W-1?
A W-1 returned -- W-1 went up to the scene near 31 --3201 Woodland and he made himself known to the police at that point.
Q What date and time was this?
A It was the same day, May 14.
Q And do you know the time?
A I don't recall the exact time.
Q And did -- how did W-1 make himself known to the police? What did he say when he went up to 3201?
A If I remember correctly his car was parked within the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made himself known to the police at that point.
Q So, just to be clear my questions are all based on your conversations with the officers who spoke directly withW-1?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And so prior to the police putting up the tape W-1 returned to the area of 3201 and parked his car; is that correct?
A Well, at some point the tape was put up and W-1'scar was within the tape.
Q Okay. So in other words what I'm saying is the tape wasn't up and then W-1 went through the tape to park the car, the car was there before the tape went up?
A I believe so, yeah.
Q And so when W-1 identified himself to the police he said that's my car, words to the effect of that's my car, I want my car back?
A I can't tell you his exact words, but in essence he made himself known who he was and he wanted his car back.
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.
Q At that moment?
A Yeah.

 

[rkf]

He did include it in his answer first thing. It has been posted a couple of times that IN THE SAME MOMENT JW said he was connected to the family and he came to get his car. Saying he was connected to the family opened the conversation up immediately. So much so that LE took him right to the station and seized his car. I don't know how much more clearly Owens could have stated it. He was not there during the conversation so he did not quote JW. But we can see from the outcome that JW shared the important info 'in the same moment' as he asked for his car---to quote the detective.

I'm not arguing about what JW did or did not tell LE upon his arrival back at his car. I was't there and neither was Owens. I'm saying that if Owens wanted to make it crystal clear that JW was a cooperating witness, when he was asked "And did -- how did W-1 make himself known to the police? What did he say when he went up to 3201?" Rather than answer "If I remember correctly his car was parked within the police tape and he wanted his car back and he made himself known to the police at that point." He could have said something like "If I remember correctly, he approached an officer, said he was an employee of SS and he had information that LE might think is important." I don't believe Owens would have emphasized JW wanting to retrieve his car if he didn't want to give the impression that it was JW's top priority when he approached LE. Why would Owens be specific about that part of the conversation, as told to him by the officer, rather than leading with the more important part of JW identifying himself as a SS employee?

I am not saying that JW didn't walk up to the officer and say "I'm JW. I work for SS and I want to tell you about the weird job he had me do this morning." He very well may have said that. My point is that Owens did not lead with that information. Rather he made it sound like JW's main interest was retrieving his car from behind the tape. Why would Owens do that if JW is an important prosecution witness and they have cleared him of all suspicion? Sounds like underminding your own witness to me.

ETA: Owens did not say "in the same moment". He said "Yeah" when Ago asked "At that moment?"

 

[rkf]

Because if he did happen to see DW or a family member come out to the garage, and then later he goes to the home to see it burning and the bodies being gurneyed out, he is going to assume something along those lines. Anybody would.

I wouldn't. But I don't assume everybody is a gang member. JMO I would think dropping off the $40,000 might have something to do with the fire and murders and would therefore think LE would be interested in hearing about it as soon as a detective/officer was available.

Plus this really conflicts with the opinion (I have no idea whose - I've forgotten) stated early in this case that maybe JW lied because he thought his boss may have been involved in something hinky and was protecting him. He would lie to protect his boss, but not tell the truth to help solve his boss' murder? He would wait to make sure the money was retrieved by SS because the request was at least a little unusual, but if he saw someone other than SS retrieve it, he would keep that information to himself? What if the reason DW had the money put in the car was so one of his partners in crime could drive by and retrieve it, without DW ever having to enter the garage? If JW was waiting to see that the money wasn't stolen before SS retrieved it, what would JW do if someone did steal it? Stay silent because the thief wasn't a balding white guy in a suit? I really wish JW would have sat outside to make sure his delivery made it to the right hands. I don't think he did. If he did and saw something, that makes it even harder to understand why he wouldn't have reached out to LE earlier.

 

[BondGirl]

If that were the case, I'd think JW would tell that to LE immediately upon being interviewed. I'd think he would smell something fishy and want to share that information. I wouldn't think he would tell several different stories before arriving at "the truth" about the delivery, because sitting there in the homicide office, he might think what he saw was relevant. I wish he had done that, but I'm not sure there would have been time between the "package delivered" text and arrival at Lowe's to sit outside the garage. Maybe if DW retrieved it immediately there would be time.

I'm sure DW was looking out the window waiting for JW to leave. I don't think DW would've gone into garage until JW was gone.

 

[observation]

He was gone for as long as the tape was up. How long? Dunno! But Owens said he returned to the scene at 3201, not returned to his car. It really seems like Owns knows he left the scene at some point and returned . That is not incriminating, just specific. I am not sure why else he would use that language. "Kammie returned to the golf course and wanted to get her car" vs "Kammie was at the golf course and returned to her car wanting to get it out."

Well, he was at the "scene" (before it became a scene) when he dropped off the cash at the home. Not sure if that helps.


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[rkf]

Isnt that what he did?

We don't know. We only know what Owens said that another officer told him. We have no idea what JW said, if he volunteered information other than his name and that he wanted his car. Did he tell everything as soon as he parked his car (no) or as soon as he went back to his car and saw an officer unoccupied (possibly)? Did they have to ask him a few questions to see why he was parked there (maybe)?

My post was in response to Corundog's

So...you expected him to just hang around and watch? What was he supposed to be doing? Why wouldn't he want his car back? I am really confused about this "get out of dodge" thing. You seem to be implying he was going to flee. Since "get out of dodge" is a euphemism for flee.

Why is it you think he was trying to flee? What evidence do you have of that?

and Bondgirl's

Why park at all if he wasn't going to introduce himself, ask about the family and tell them as much as he knew?? And then why leave without his car?? Odd.

My post immediately preceding the one you quoted was

Yeah, I don't think he drove straight from VA upon hearing about the fire because he was planning on putting it out himself. If he didn't plan on talking to LE as soon as he arrived (and they had time for him), why go to the S house at all?

BBM

 

[rkf]

Owens was very clear in his answer to the first question: "he made himself known who he was. . ."

How do we know what that means? I read that as he said it was his car and gave his name. We don't know if he required prompting to give additional information. We don't know how Owens defines "moment". The detective was very vague about what was said and how it was said. Perhaps because he is repeating what someone else told him. Unless it was totally accidental, the way he answered the question gave me the impression that JW initially approached the officer for the purpose of retrieving his car, not to aid the investigation in any way he could. I'm not saying that is what happened - I'm saying that is the impression that I got and that I think Owens deliberately presented.

 

[rkf]

Wasn't Ago referring to the registration for the Mosler?

He might have been. I honestly have no idea what he was referring to. Here's what Ago said:
The relevance is that there's evidence that the police seized from the BMW -- let me back up. There are five or six cars, maybe even seven that are described in this case. And so there's different pieces of evidence that are taken from several of those cars.

p.20#25

 

[SeesSeas]

How do we know what that means? I read that as he said it was his car and gave his name. We don't know if he required prompting to give additional information. We don't know how Owens defines "moment". The detective was very vague about what was said and how it was said. Perhaps because he is repeating what someone else told him. Unless it was totally accidental, the way he answered the question gave me the impression that JW initially approached the officer for the purpose of retrieving his car, not to aid the investigation in any way he could. I'm not saying that is what happened - I'm saying that is the impression that I got and that I think Owens deliberately presented.

According to Owens answer, JW said more than "it was his car and gave his name"

PH Page 18 - Argo questions; Owens answers:
Q When you said he made himself known who he was did he tell the police that he was connected with the Savopoulos family?
A Yeah.