DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #20

[Skigirl]

" "all logic" says he was just doing what his boss asked him to do. "

logic - - as in 'reasonable thinking', per dictionaries:

http://thelawdictionary.org/logic/
[h=1]What is LOGIC?[/h]The science of reasoning, or of the operations of the understanding which are subservient to the estimation of evidence. The term includes both the process itself of proceeding from known truths to unknown, and all other intellectual operations, in so far as auxiliary to this.


http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/logic
[h=3]logic noun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/help/codes.html (REASONABLE THINKING)[/h]

›​

a particular way of thinking, esp. one that is reasonable andbased on good judgment

Well, as long as we're being pedants, I'll note that logic is singular and not properly modified by "all". :cheers:

 

[TexMex]

Link please for "cleared"?

Transcript. It's clear to me that when a man has been interviewed and investigated, his whereabouts and story checked out and verified by LE, he's not charged, arrested, not called a suspect by the lead detective and called a crucial witness by the defense....he's been cleared of criminal wrongdoing in this matter

 

[Peliman]

Regarding JW, I've not heard yet what he gained if he was in on this crime. I think it was his dream job even if SS wouldn't sponsor his racing career. If he was in it for the mosler, why is it still there? If he was in it for the money, he'd have taken it. He didn't take either the mosler or the money and he had the opportunity to take both.

IMO - He had no horse in this race, he was doing what he should have done. Except for being flashy with the pictures.

If he was going to gain something, what went wrong? He certainly had the chance, he probably had access to a garage full of cars. IMO

 

[Skigirl]

Regarding JW, I've not heard yet what he gained if he was in on this crime. I think it was his dream job even if SS wouldn't sponsor his racing career. If he was in it for the mosler, why is it still there? If he was in it for the money, he'd have taken it. He didn't take either the mosler or the money and he had the opportunity to take both.

IMO - He had no horse in this race, he was doing what he should have done. Except for being flashy with the pictures.

If he was going to gain something, what went wrong? He certainly had the chance, he probably had access to a garage full of cars. IMO

I don't think being an errand boy and driver was really a dream come true for JW, but I agree that we don't know that he gained anything from the crime.

 

[SeesSeas]

Laura Bach, AUSA, states that W-1 has been vilified in the media:
MS. BACH: Actually I'm not really sure what evidence he's referring to that would be relevant to this hearing and I would just ask, but to the extent that this individual's already been vilified in the media I would just ask that we refer to it as W-1's car.

PH transcript, page 21
http://www.scribd.com/doc/272950986/D-Wint-Savopoulos-Preliminary-Hearing

 

[observation]

Question for the group?
Does anyone remember who or at what point in the PH- that Bach states she "does not want him to have to have to testify and she expressed concern that he was going to have to." I'm sitting here trying to recall.


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[observation]

Meant to say this a while ago too but I was so pleased they didn't let DW have his shackles and handcuffs removed. He does not deserve freedom of his limbs.


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[observation]

Question for the group?
Does anyone remember who or at what point in the PH- that Bach states she "does not want him to have to have to testify and she expressed concern that he was going to have to." I'm sitting here trying to recall.


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Just talking to myself here- found it in the transcripts- This was addressed during the discussion about the cell phones and open warrant which was not further transcribed. Clearly there was another means of communication. So hard to wait for more information.


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[kammiemc]

Just talking to myself here- found it in the transcripts- This was addressed during the discussion about the cell phones and open warrant which was not further transcribed. Clearly there was another means of communication. So hard to wait for more information.


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I posted it upthread. It was discussed in the bench convo that Bach wanted to do ex parte. She did not want to divulge to Ago info about the unexecuted SW by putting Owens in the situation where he had to testify about if asked about the phones and whether records showed they were used to contact any numbers associated with Wint. The interesting thing is that they have not been located at any of the places associated with Wint or with his belongings. It "seemed" like one potential reason she wouldn't have wanted Ago to know is because the new SW was for a place associated with someone besides Wint, which could have given Ago ammo.


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[SeesSeas]

Question for the group?
Does anyone remember who or at what point in the PH- that Bach states she "does not want him to have to have to testify and she expressed concern that he was going to have to." I'm sitting here trying to recall.

"I don't want him to be in a position where he has to testify" - that PH discussion was about the cellphones:
Starts on page 93 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/272950986/D-Wint-Savopoulos-Preliminary-Hearing

Q Um, the cell phones that were used in this case, the Savopoulos' cell phones that were used in communications in this case, those were not recovered from Mr. Wint, his belongings or homes associated with him?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: The objection is noted but it's overruled. You may answer yes or no.
MS. BACH: I would ask to approach.
THE COURT: You may approach.(Bench conference).
MS. BACH: I'm going to ask –
THE COURT: No, no, you come to the bench. No, no, Miss Bach, be clear, you don't make speeches in my courtroom, you say what you've got to say at the bench.
MS. BACH: I'm going to just ask Your Honor for permission to do this ex parte, if the Court believes it needs to be disclosed to the defense it's fine but it has to do with an open search warrant that is about to be executed.
THE COURT: Well –
MS. BACH: And I'm afraid that he's going to end up-- I don't want him to be in a position where he has to testify -- I'm worried that he's going to have to -- he's going to not be able to testify without revealing that search warrant is what my concern is.
THE COURT: Have the search warrants been executed?
MS. BACH: No, that's the problem.
THE COURT: Okay, so the question is whether or not the cell phones have been recovered. The cell phones that were used in communications in this case, those were not recovered from Mr. Wint, his belongings or -- I can't find it.
MR. AGO: Homes associated.
THE COURT: And so, okay, I guess -- I guess you think the answer that he might reveal that he doesn't know?
MS. BACH: It goes beyond that. And that's why I'm asking for permission to do this.
THE COURT: Well, step back for a minute, counsel, if I think it's not a subject that's properly ex parte I'll --(Defense counsel excused from bench. Ex parte. Said bench conference is ordered sealed and is not transcribed herein).
THE COURT: All right, counsel, I'm going to overrule the objection to the exact question that you asked. Do you need it repeated by the court reporter?
MR. AGO: No, I think I know it.
THE COURT: Okay. You may come back.
BY MR. AGO:
Q The cell phones that were used in communication in this case, decedent's cell phones, they were not recovered from Mr. Wint, his, um, belongings, or the homes that he stayed at, correct?
A Correct.
MR. AGO: This might draw the same objection, Your Honor, but I'll ask the question.
BY MR. AGO:
Q Is the cell phones, um, that we've discussed, those same cell phones, were any of them used on or after May 13thto call any numbers associated with Mr. Wint?
MS. BACH: Your Honor, objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.

 

[Keefer]

So, where were Amy and Savvas's cell phones found?
J.W. Looks to be main witness for the prosecution.
Just because J.W. Is not being charged does not mean he is totally innocent! Have you heard of a little gal named Linda Kasabian?
D.A. 'S make deals everyday in order to convict the greater of two evils.
I wonder what was discussed "off the record" in ex parte ? Sounds like it has to do with something that will embarrass the prosecution. Did it have to do with those two cell phones?

 

[kammiemc]

Link please for "cleared"?

What's interesting is that this hearing was not about Bach trying to bring all the facts of the case to light. Her objective was to remove any suspicion of anyone else, so that she could get the show on the road and get Wint to trial. (With a next stop of GJ? Can't recall.)

It would be in line with the objective of the PH for her to downplay or negate any previous suspicion around JW. Just as she did not want to divulge the new SW to the defense.

To me, it seemed a little weak that JW's whereabouts were verified by HIM and cell phone usage (pings) that would put him in the approx area of where he said he was.

Some things cannot be verified--for instance, whether or not JW closed the garage door. But that is not relevant to the PH or probable cause.

None of that is incriminating, but I am waiting until questions can actually be asked about JW that are not under the rules of the PH to understand things fully.

There's also a guy with money who was interviewed and is not charged. There is an open SW. I know some folks strongly believe this was a "one and done" deal by DW. But I personally don't believe that anyone is cleared at this point, based on what we know (and we all know the same stuff), and I am now very familiar with the transcript. My interpretation of what the testimony means and doesn't mean is, of course, just my opinion.




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[facundo]

TRANSCRIPT RECEIVED!!!!!!! So, is it against TOS to post it here? MUST READ!!!!! [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]
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Blessedlife,
You truly live up to your screen name. Thank you for sharing the transcript with Websleuths.

 

[BondGirl]

What's interesting is that this hearing was not about Bach trying to bring all the facts of the case to light. Her objective was to remove any suspicion of anyone else, so that she could get the show on the road and get Wint to trial. (With a next stop of GJ? Can't recall.)

It would be in line with the objective of the PH for her to downplay or negate any previous suspicion around JW. Just as she did not want to divulge the new SW to the defense.

To me, it seemed a little weak that JW's whereabouts were verified by HIM and cell phone usage (pings) that would put him in the approx area of where he said he was.

Some things cannot be verified--for instance, whether or not JW closed the garage door. But that is not relevant to the PH or probable cause.

None of that is incriminating, but I am waiting until questions can actually be asked about JW that are not under the rules of the PH to understand things fully.

There's also a guy with money who was interviewed and is not charged. There is an open SW. I know some folks strongly believe this was a "one and done" deal by DW. But I personally don't believe that anyone is cleared at this point, based on what we know (and we all know the same stuff), and I am now very familiar with the transcript. My interpretation of what the testimony means and doesn't mean is, of course, just my opinion.





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I'm not sure garage door activity can't be verified via alarm system or neighbors video cameras.

 

[TexMex]

So, where were Amy and Savvas's cell phones found?
J.W. Looks to be main witness for the prosecution.
Just because J.W. Is not being charged does not mean he is totally innocent! Have you heard of a little gal named Linda Kasabian?
D.A. 'S make deals everyday in order to convict the greater of two evils.
I wonder what was discussed "off the record" in ex parte ? Sounds like it has to do with something that will embarrass the prosecution. Did it have to do with those two cell phones?

Kasabian had an immunity deal with the State. JW has no deal iirc from prelim transcript

 

[jggordo]

I do not believe JW would for a minute cause harm much less death to Mr. S.. The SS family was his "golden goose" so to speak. Before his FB and Twitter accounts were taken down JW boasted about his new job and how much he loved it. Down to and including his post of the picture of the money (20K) and stating how insane (sarcastically) his job was. He was rubbing elbows with one of DC's most elite families. In killing the golden goose there are no more golden eggs for him and he is now back to the unemployment line.

I also believe that JW may have been terminated from Autobahn simply for a conflict of "interest". His GF was (and maybe still does) also work at Autobahn. Whether against policy or not, it generally just is not a good idea in the long run of employment. In his position he had begun a new racing "team" and actively promoting it and himself through FB (at least) with his new team which I am sure he met through work. He had met Mr S and PS through work and snagged the job as a private coach for PS until being replaced after the first of the year. I don't think Autobahn wanted any part of one of their employees moonlighting and coaching outside the facility. That would be a HUGE liability just waiting for someone to get hurt, which inevitably did happen to PS only 1-2 months after JW left their employ.

Just my opinions

 

[observation]

I posted it upthread. It was discussed in the bench convo that Bach wanted to do ex parte. She did not want to divulge to Ago info about the unexecuted SW by putting Owens in the situation where he had to testify about if asked about the phones and whether records showed they were used to contact any numbers associated with Wint. The interesting thing is that they have not been located at any of the places associated with Wint or with his belongings. It "seemed" like one potential reason she wouldn't have wanted Ago to know is because the new SW was for a place associated with someone besides Wint, which could have given Ago ammo.




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That's a great point and likely why they believe it was a more of a joint effort vs. DW solo. I find it very hard to believe that DW did not know anyone else in the convoy except his bro. However, September is next month.



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[facundo]

bbm

ddsmiley: Now kammicmc, you (and everybody else, lol) know what a supporter of JW I am. :bombshell: I agree with you on this because as I read the transcript that part specifically stood out to me. I was disheartened. Of course, I'd like to think that he went to the least busy officer at the scene to say that he worked for SS and made a delivery there this morning. I'd be happy to come and be interviewed, but can I take my car, please? But, I kinda think my way didn't happen. :/

It has me wondering if he thought he'd just quietly get in his car, scoot on home, have a nervous breakdown and call his Dad or Mom to ask advice about what to do. I suspect that's exactly what he thought had he not been trapped behind the line. But, with his car behind the tape, he then had no choice but to explain why he was there.

ETA: My suggesting he might call his parents it not a slam in any way. I'm projecting because that's exactly what I would do. Especially if my parents had procedural knowledge. In fact, I might even call my parent/s while at the scene as soon as I knew that there were fatalities there.

I agree. As much as I have supported JW, IMO he should have been sweating blood, knowing that he personally delivered the ransom money to his boss and that the entire family was subsequently murdered. I have to remind myself that I was not there and JW is not me. He did things differently than I would have. Maybe his mind just turned to mush in light of the sad events that he witnessed.

 

[Skigirl]

I agree. As much as I have supported JW, IMO he should have been sweating blood, knowing that he personally delivered the ransom money to his boss and that the entire family was subsequently murdered. I have to remind myself that I was not there and JW is not me. He did things differently than I would have. Maybe his mind just turned to mush in light of the sad events that he witnessed.

I guess mush-mind could also explain the lying or forgetting or whatever it was that lead to the differing version of events that were given to metro police, but I still find that one of the most puzzling things about this case. Why not tell the truth? The events were just that morning/evening prior. It doesn't make sense.

 

[observation]

I guess mush-mind could also explain the lying or forgetting or whatever it was that lead to the differing version of events that were given to metro police, but I still find that one of the most puzzling things about this case. Why not tell the truth? The events were just that morning/evening prior. It doesn't make sense.

In my mind this young guy was scared senseless and may have felt guilty and went on to "look guilty" in the eyes of so many. Obviously I do not know, but this is where I land in trying to understand his actions.


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